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Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been thinking about several people we haven't heard from for awhile and wondering how you all are.

Derrell, you haven't posted for several months, and I don't know if you still check this board or not, but I'm wondering how you're doing. I remember you were struggling with dealing with a job where your new understanding of the gospel wasn't necessarily welcome. If you check in, let us know how you are! I continue to pray for you.

Also Lee; I remember you wrote about leading your Contemporary Issues Sabbath School class but realizing much of what you had believed you couldn't endorse any longer. How are you, and where has your journey taken you? My prayers for you continue.

Richard Jr., I think about you often and wonder how you are doing and how things have changed for you. Let us know if you have a chance!

Ditto the above for Cindy.

Angie, how is your husband, and how are you doing? Marykay, how are things with your husband? I'm still praying for you both and for your husbands!

Flo, I continue to pray God will guide you to a fellowship and protect you from deception as you "detox" from the groups you've written about being in.

Gracehound, how are you, and how have the issues you've asked us to pray about been settled?

I also know there are some new forum members who haven't posted yet; we'd love to hear from you and to support you in your journeys.

With prayers for all of us that God will take care of us, guide us to himself, and heal our hearts,

Colleen
Gracehound (Gracehound)
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Colleen,

Thanks for asking. Things here are going really well. The specific issue isn't solved, but it's on hold indefinitely, so we'll deal with it if it comes back up later. The initial response by my husband and I was prayed for by us and by a lot of other folks and we both feel good about how we responded. The fact that we've heard nothing back is a good indication that what was said may have settled the matter. We're trusting that the Lord is handling that end of the issue. As far as we are concerned, the matter is closed unless reopened.

In other parts of my life I'm amazed at how the Lord has been working. My husband is beginning to pray and his anxiety has been much lessened. We've made drastic changes in our business and our stress level has been taken down a notch or two. The Lord really opened a lot of doors for us to be able to make the business changes and we've prayed the whole way. Eight months ago I gave our business to the Lord and volunteered to manage His business. Let me tell you, the direction He chose to move and the direction I had planned were very different. But you know what, I like his plan so much better now.

Overall life is going very well. Please continue to pray for my husband and I. It's neat for me to be able to stand back and watch Him develop a personal relationship overtime with the Lord. I see His hand at work in his life and I see him beginning to trust Him (LOL...follow the initial caps or that one will loose you.) It's neat to watch though. I don't push, I just watch. Thanks for your prayers. Please continue to pray for us. I do believe there is power in prayer.

Gracehound
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gracehound, thank you for checking in. I'm so happy about your husband! I also respect and understand your giving your business to God and then watching to see him really make it His own in ways you didn't foresee!

What good news!

Praising God for the ways he works in our lives,

Colleen
Marykay (Marykay)
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Colleen,

Thanks for the prayers and for thinking of us.
Our bible studies have calmed down a bit. We just mostly read a few scriptures. I can't adjust myself to hearing most of the sda views on anti-christ, sabbath, egw, and most of their other doctrine. Of course husband doesn't believe I am saved but of course he will have to deal with that.

Summer vacation is into the fourth week and of course when you have an 11 year old, you always seem to be busy but I always seem to find time to check the site.

I want to thank you so much because you seem to really know what you are talking about with every issue that comes up. And you make it quite understandable, unlike their doctines.

Again keep us in your prayers and God Bless.

Marykay
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah, yes, summer vacation! It does get better as the kids become mid-to-late teenagers!

You have made a very good point, Marykay, about your husband not believing you are saved. Unfortunately, you have to live with this heartache, and my prayers for you and your husband will continue. It's a good point, though, because SO MANY Adventists now say the Sabbath (and Adventism, EGW, etc.,) are not necessary for salvation.

What they don't say to the public, however, is that they believe that once a person has heard "the truth", they become responsible for it. Then it DOES become a matter of salvation! In other words, once you know about Sabbath, etc., you're probably lost if you reject it. And while they say keeping the Sabbath doesn't save them, they figuratively quiver if you ask them if they'll be saved if they stop keeping it. They can't really say no, because it sounds contradictory, but they can't really say yes, either, because they DO believe they have to keep it to be saved!

It's a vicious cycle, and it creates amazing cognitive dissonance they can never quite resolve. I know from experience! I always had questions I couldn't quite answer.

Praising God for the freedom of the gospel,

Colleen
Freeatlast (Freeatlast)
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah, yes, "cognitive dissonance"...I remember it well *tic/shudder/twitch/spasm* Thanks for the memories, Colleen!

My wife and I live in Pasadena and we might try and make one of the FAF meetings there in Redlands some Friday evening if you will have us.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Freeatlast, of course we "will have you"! We'd all be delighted to meet you both!

Colleen
Cindy (Cindy)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Colleen,
I told Richard you asked about him...he is doing well!! He's working long hours so doesn't get to the computer hardly at all. I try to at least read thru the posts weekly. Our life is much more tiring physically than a few years ago when he had his different job...

Maybe we'll get brave and speak out more. The complications in our life definitely tend to discredit our views among Adventists, I know; but it may be a helpful thing to do for ourselves... and others.

I sometimes wonder why we have been blessed with our understanding of the New Covenant total REST in Christ 24/7...it has not been easy at times, but I am very grateful in the long run! I can't imagine ever going back to that thinking!

Grace always,
Cindy
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cindy, I'm so happy to hear the good news about you and Richard! I'd love to hear more.

I understand what you mean about complications discrediting your views among Adventists, but the truth is that it doesn't matter WHAT your life is like, Adventists who don't want to hear about the New covenant will simply find other reasons to discredit your views!

I share your amazement that God has blessed you with the reality of the new covenant. I was pondering that again today and thinking about the fact that the Bible speaks very clearly, but only those who are open to the Holy Spirit's leading will understand what they read.

It's never easy. The inexplicable miracle is that Jesus is enough, and He is our reward. That is more than enough to make the pain and hardship worth it! It still amazes me that I can actually feel love for and loyalty to Jesus. Those concepts never made sense to me before--they just seemed like metaphors for a mental decision to accept Jesus--whatever that meant!

I'm praising God for his healing in your lives, Cindy. I am praying for you both.

Colleen
Cindy (Cindy)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 6:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen,
Thank-you... Yes, love and loyalty to a Person-Jesus-is much better than devotion to a Denomination!

Now when I hear of "evangelistic" meetings being held in Adventism I get a sadness in my heart for the people who are being taught this strange mixture of New with Old Covenant thinking and living.

And I am SO GLAD that we don't have to work with those "evangelists" and try to convince people anymore of, as I often hear it being referred to..."the truth".

Like you said, Jesus is Enough. He is enough TRUTH!

It can really make you crazy when you have major disagreements with the belief system and yet try to remain in it. For a long time we thought we could just emphasize the Cross of Christ and kind of ignore the aberrant doctrines!

But it just doesn't work when you try to combine the Old Covenants' "ministry of death" with the call of the Holy Spirit.

And when you realize that Adventism's "truth" really hinges on the validity of the "7th day Sabbath" versus the fulfilled REST in JESUS, there is really no option other than to leave.

Grace always,
Cindy
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cindy, you said that so well. You absolutely echo my experience and that of many others here as well.

I am so thankful for Jesus and for assuarance that he will never leave me. I love the last words in the book of Matthew, "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Colleen
Madelia (Madelia)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll try posting this message again. I tried last week and for some reason it didn't go through. Thanks so much Colleen for asking how people are doing. Cindy, your message talking about "evangelistic" meetings hit home with me! Please pray for us: my husband is getting more and more fanatical about getting "the message" out there. He purchased 2 tents from a guy who had a tent rental business. I thought he meant to also rent them, but he's going to use them for some meetings using Doug Batchelor's materials. It is like talking to a brick wall, he is so sure the "truth" is the SDA truth.

Thanks for listening!
Cindy (Cindy)
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Madelia... It must be difficult for you!

I don't know your history with Adventism (I may have missed your earlier posts), but I remember the legalism of the "Amazing Facts" evangelistic meetings; and the anger and sadness I felt when unsuspecting people would be entangled in it.

I pray your husband will soon realize the freedom and rest that Christ alone gives...

Always keep foremost in your thoughts the grace of God to YOU!!

This GIFT to me has been a real motivater and confidence builder in hard times.

Grace always,
Cindy
Madelia (Madelia)
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks so much Cindy!!
I don't think I've ever really given my whole story here, but here's the condensed version!

I grew up in a Christian home. I was raised Lutheran, but beginning in grade school, my parents were not in agreement with the direction the church was taking. So we attended several different churches; I feel fortunate being exposed to these different churches.

I was single until I was almost 35. Over the years I dated some very nice Christian guys, but nothing ever seemed to work out. When I met my husband-to-be, I was at a nightclub with my friend. At that point, I guess I had given up on meeting a nice Christian fellow. The man I met that night was leaving to return to Southwestern University in Keene, TX. Isn't it interesting that I'd meet an SDA in a nightclub on a Saturday night, but it was after sundown :) He had only been working in MN for the summer. He contacted my friend (I'd given him my friend's phone number "cause I was still a bit suspicious!)the next summer when he returned for his summer job. We spent every weekend together. When fall came, he decided to stay in MN. We began living together, which was a real hard thing for me; I felt so sinful. During the summer, I had learned he was an SDA and being curious, I suggested we attend a church. By fall, we were discussing marriage. I told him he either had to move out, because I didn't like living together or we needed to get married. Of course, he couldn't marry someone non-SDA. So I started attending "Bible" studies with the pastor's wife. At that times, the studies on the 2300 prophecies and IJ and the jewelry issue just didn't make sense to me. But I went through with it anyway and was baptized the day before we were married. That was 9 years ago. We have 2 wonderful kids, 5 and 8. As time went on, and the internet became available, I did a search and found resources like this site and Dale Ratzlaff's. What a relief to see I wasn't alone!! I've tried to bring up my concerns to my husband, but as time goes on he is more and more fanatical and we get in a big fighting match, which I hate my kids to see.

I have made contact with a Lutheran church in my area and have talked with the pastor, who has been great. I've attended a few times, when my husband has been away at work in the morning.

I think if it wasn't for my kids, it would make it easier to break away.

I'll stop for now. My kids and I had a great 4th at a family reunion. Hubby stayed home to study for his meetings. Tonight he's out "witnessing" in the city
Cindy (Cindy)
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Madlia..

I am very fortunate in having my husband and I on the same wave length in realizing the wrong doctrines of Adventism. He was behind a year or so in completely undertanding the Sabbath REST we now have fullfilled EVERY day in Christ, but I attribute that to his severe descent into Alcoholism and crazy thinking that goes along with that.

The "cognitive dissonance" others have mentioned played an great role in his living in hell for quite a awhile.

He resigned as a pastor in 1999 from a very loving church-family back east. (Our disagreements with Adventism have always been THEOLOGICAL, never problems with personality. In many ways our Adventist friends seem more loving than us!)

We moved west in the fall of 2000 to be nearer his family but it has still taken a few more years of AA, working with a wonderful AA "sponsor" and going to a completely different denomination to worship before he can now say the "craving" for alcohol has been lifted.

He gets up early (and makes my coffee!!) and daily reads, mediates and prays with his Bible, (or the Message verson), his Oswald Chambers' daily reading, and his AA "Big Book".

In the past year and a half of sobriety he really has become a NEW person! Better even than the man I married 29 years ago. I am so grateful!

So don't break away from your marriage unless it is the very last resort. God will come close to you in this season.

You will be the Grace of God to your husband....and he WILL notice.

And in GOD'S timing, your husband may open his heart to the Spirits' leading and be able to see the way out of that fanatacism --- and in to the arms of JESUS where he can STAY and REST FOREVER!

Grace always,
Cindy
Cindy (Cindy)
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

p.s. Madelia, I just re-read your post and realize that you may have been saying it would be easier to break away from the Adventist church if it weren't for the kids...

Yes, that would be difficult, especially if your husband insisted on them staying there. I will pray for you to have WISDOM in knowing the best way of going about this.

It would be good to not have too much EQW's views fill their minds....especially on "end-time" events relating to "Sunday" worshipers persecuting "Sabbath worshipers!

I wonder if they still sing in Sabbath School that song I hate:

"123456 for US
123456 for US
123456 for US...
THE 7TH IS FOR Jesus"

Grace always,
Cindy
Madelia (Madelia)
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes,
They still do sing that awful song and I hate it too. My children do go to a day care that is sponsored by the Lutheran church, so thank God they have some exposure to something other than SDA. When they have spent time with my parents they have gone to church with them. My husband only tolerates it because they're the grandparents.

We did have a big fighting match on Saturday. He started in about how I can't break away from tradition and the infant "sprinkling" etc. Then I yelled back that the SDA church has plenty of tradition too. It just went from bad to worse. I told him I was going to start going to a service on Sunday. He told me I had never accepted Jesus and that I had deceived him when I was baptized into the church.

He did apologize yesterday; I told him that I have to search and figure this out myself. He always wants me to come to him with my question, but I can't because it's too emotionally charged. I asked him to read Dale Ratzlaff's book "sabbath in Christ" for me, but he refused, saying it's of Satan.

I do feel better now that it's out in the open and I can openly attend another church. Maybe this is the turning point?!
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Madelia, having this out in the open IS GOOD! We will continue to pray that your husband will be willing to be open to the truth in the word of God and that you will have wisdom from Him to know how to love him for God and to treat him with respect while still obeying your conscience in following Jesus.

With prayers for you,
Colleen
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Madelia, it Is Good that is is out in the open!

We will continue to pray that God will open his eyes to the truth about Jesus and that you will have grace and wisdom from Him to know how to love and respect your husband for God while also following Jesus yourself!
Terryk (Terryk)
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Madella I will add you to the prayer list. This is such a scarey and crazy time when you are finding this truth. I studied for about a month before I said anything to my family. Thank God my husband never really fell for all the junk that I believed with all my heart. I would like to share more if you want. My e-mail is tbawgus@hotmail.com. It is good to have people to talk to who have gone or are going through this. You also have to understand they are so brain washed about leaving the truth or anyone speaking against it that they really believe you will go to hell. I was there myself a year ago. Only by God's wonderful love and grace did he allow the scales to fall from my eyes and see real truth. Well I will remember you in my prayers. Terry
Madelia (Madelia)
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks so much Terry, Colleen and Cindy. Yes, please pray for wisdom for me!
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Madelia, I am a bonified member of the ELCA. I really like the organization and I attended several years before becomming a member. I wanted to be a member because as a member I can vote in church elections and partisipate in other church responsibilities. I was raised mostly sda but always strict Sabbathtarian. My kin were cool with me attending the Lutheran until one day a dear family member came right out and asked me if I was a member. When I told her I was then the sh*t hit the fan and our relationship has yet to totally recover. I guess as long as I was just attending the kin could rationalize that I wasn't yet too involved with the harlots of the beast but now that they know I am a member of a "Sunday worshipping" church I am looked at as an enemy. In fact, this person even asked me if I have been taking classed in how to pursucate Sabbath-keepers when the mark of the beast time comes. It got very intense. Praise God for purserverence and Chrisatian friends, including those on this forum!
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess the title of this thread is the right title to post what I have to say. I hope so . Anyway, next week or maybe the first part of the week after that I plan on being gone for a while. Probably seveal months but possibly even a bit longer. I have been having health prblems. My blood pressure and my heart rates are extremely high and I have had several doctors tell me they are surprised that I haven't had a stroke (or worse) yet. My primary care doctor and me went over my life style-food, water, all diet, exercise and rest etc. She said I am doing everything right and then she asked me about my emotional state, what has been going on in my life, etc. I didn't want to get into it all with her but I told her that I am sure that is the main cause of my health problems. Well, I figure I could spend many thousands of dollars and go to Werimer or I could spend several hundred and go live in paradise with several of my children. I chose the second choice. I got some lip from my mother about this, as you know by now I am an only child and my mom is elderly. But, I broke down crying and finilly told her what I have been told about the doctors and she's in good health so she's finilly agreed that it would be better for her to take a taxi where she needs to go than for me to have a stroke, or worse. So, as soon as possible I'll be getting a one-way tickt to Hawaii. I won't be taking much. I want to take my Bible so I can read and learn the Bible and the Bible alone for myself. I'll be living in a tent at a private tidepool. I'm leaving an almost brand new house in a very nice community to be homeless in paradise. I have children doing that and they have invited me to come stay with them. They have even fixed me up my own living quarters. They got me a tent with an air mattress and a sleeping bag. I'm probably 20 pounds overweight so this will be a good opportunity for me to shed the excess pounds. I am going to have to live right because they have no modern conveincences. They cook over an open fire or on their butane camp stove. They eat a lot of fruit because it grows right there and they can pick all they want. I do plan before I leave to get me a portable C.D. player and lots of Grateful Dead cd's and some Johnny Cash and Billy Joel and Elton John CD's though, etc. On Sundays my kids go hang at the Hare Krishna commune down the street. They get to eat Hare Krishna vegetarian feast all afternoon. I guess I'll go hang with the Hare Krishna's on Sundays too. I need a change. I will not burden you all with the personal issues I'm dealing with but I truly believe some R & R is the only cure. I'll post until the day before I leave and then you most likely won't hear from me until Janurary or so. I won't have electrisity or a phone or any of those modern inventions. Hey, I' outta here!!!!!
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, I'll pray that God will heal your body and your soul. Let us know how you are whenever you can. You'll be in our prayers.

Colleen

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