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Thomas1 (Thomas1)
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am sure that there is a conversation somewhere in here about books read or recomended. As it is apparently "buried", I'll start a new one.

I just purchased and am nicely into a new book by Neil T Anderson, Rick Miller, and Paul Travis, called "Breaking the Bondage of Legalism". As we are all recovering legalists/Adventists, I have found this book to be a great read, so far. The copyright is this year, so it is a new issue. Published by Harvest House Publishers.

I got mine through Christian Book Distributors (a great source of Christian materials.

Hope you are blessed!

<>< Thomas
Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7)
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As always, I recommend Bob George's Classic Christianity and Growing In Grace. Also, Grace Walk by Steve McVey. I've heard McVey speak at my church, and he's as good a writer as he is a speaker!
Terryk (Terryk)
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ditto Bob George's tapes really helped me understand somethings when I was pretty confussed.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I second the recommendation for Bob George. I haven't read the one you mentioned, Thomas, but it sounds good.

Colleen
Leigh (Leigh)
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wanted to share a children's Bible study plan that I just started using this year. Here's a little background.

I homeschool my children. Several years ago I was homeschooling using the SDA Home Study courses. I did the teaching from home and then gave them tests and then sent the tests in to be graded by someone at the Home Study office. One of the questions on one of the Bible tests asked:

"What is the blessing of keeping the 10 Commandments?"

The answer my child wrote was:
"Going to heaven."

(The material we have just gone over,by the way, was about early sda history. I go over the questions of the tests before I send them in to give them immediate feed back.)

I was upset. Mad at myself for not teaching "grace" better. I explained that we are saved only by accepting that Jesus died for our sins. We left the answer as it had been written, and sent it in. A few weeks later we got the corrected test back. The answer "going to heaven" for keeping the 10 commandments was "correct!" I was livid. This was one of those many little things that got me questioning the SDA truth.

Needless to say,I no longer use the sda curriculum. I wanted a bible curriculum that would help me teach and learn the true gospel, to try to undo any "damage" that had been done. I prayed for guidance and this is what I found.

It is called
FIRM FOUNDATIONS Creation to Christ Children's Edition, put out by New Tribes Mission.

(Not to be confused with "Our Firm Foundation" which I think is a very historical sda, very pro egw sda offshoot publication.)

The Bible lessons start at the beginning by teaching the infallability of scripture, the trinity, the divine nature of Christ, and then start with the Bible stories in chronological order and use these to lead up to the gospel and how man needs a savior.
This is a quote from the "how to use these lessons" book.

"The gospel is first and foremost about Christ. It is the message of the finished historical work of God in Christ. The gospel is a work of the Godhead alone.

Many confuse the gospel, God's work FOR us in Christ, with God's work IN us by the Holy Sprit. The Gospel is entirely objective. The Gospel is completely outside of ourselves. The Gospel is not about the change which needs to be made in us, and does not take place within us. It was completed in Christ 2,000 years ago. The gospel is not dependent on man in any way. The Gospel is distorted when we turn people's eyes to what is to be accomplished in them. We were not and cannot be involved in any part of Christ's historical, finished redemptive work. The sinner must be taught to look completely away from himself and trust only in Christ and His work of salvation."

There is a little section on materials from other sources. It states that "some of the children's Bible story books and videos do not follow the Bible story, but introduce incidents and quotes that are not found or even alluded to in Scripture...You may find something very well presented, beautifully illustrated, and dramatically satisfying to the children,BUT IF IT DOESN'T TEACH THE TRUTH, DON'T USE IT!!"(sounds like the "blue books" to me)

The writers of this curriculum used these in the mission field and found them helpful in preventing "false cults" as they put it, from leading the people into error.

I got this curriculum at a homeschool curriculum fair, but I think that it is in Christian Book Distributors Homeschool catalog. I just wanted to share this since there may be parents or grandparents looking for something to help them present the gospel to children.
Leigh
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh, thank you for sharing that. I agree with you; I suspect they may be referring, at least in part, to Uncle Arthur's Bible Stories.

I know someone who is still Adventist but fancies herself "on the edge" (although I'm not sure exactly how far onto the edge she is!), and she was wondering what she could get for her son if she didn't use The Bible Stories. I realize you're sharing curriculum info, not sources for Bible stories, but it's still reassuring to know that there are publishers who are making sure that they provide accurate biblical material for children.

Thahks!

Colleen
Chris (Chris)
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of the Maxwell Bible Stories..... We have a full set of them and I can't read them to my kids anymore because I have come to realize that they mix the Biblical accounts with a lot of non-Biblical details that can only be found in EGW. Not to mention the blantant SDA doctrinal teachings (esp. Sabbath) throughout. So I've been looking for a comparable evangelical product. There just isn't any. The Maxwell Stories may be a cultic work, but they sure are a high quality cultic work!

Chris
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right, Chris. What Richard and I found when we were looking for children's Bible stories for a baby we know was that--there aren't any--but there are LOTS of children's Bibles. That was an interesting discovery!

Somehow the Bible really does seem to be the bottom line for both children and adults!

Colleen
Leigh (Leigh)
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 7:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was impressed by the instructions for this Bible study I found because they say, "teach directly from your open Bible... The Bible is the final authority. Make sure each child has a Bible."

It was much easier for me to read from the "Bible Story" books by Maxwell instead of reading from the Bible. All of the "parental guidance situations" were edited out for you, Tamar and Judah, Lot and his daughters, etc. At the time I didn't realize how much material was based more on the "conflict of the ages" series and not soley biblical.

You're right, Colleen, the bible is the bottom line for both children and adults! It is harder to teach from the directly from the Bible and it takes more time, but it's worth it.

I pray for wisdom and PATIENCE every day in teaching my children the gospel and biblically sound doctrine.

Did any of you listen to the "Bible in Living Sound" when you were growing up? I used to love them when I was a kid. But I used to think all the concepts presented were entirely Biblical. Now I'm not so sure. I think they were put out by Chapel records.

Chris, I have the whole set of Maxwell Bible stories, too. I moved them into the storage room with the rest of my old egw books. I'm not quite sure what to do with them.

Leigh
Melissa (Melissa)
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was at B's brother's house last weekend for a birthday party and on one of the tables was a children's book called "God's 10 Rules". I had to think about it a long time. Does God really have "10 rules"? On one hand, it seemed rather simplistic...just do these 10 things and you're okay. On the other hand, it was such "works" thinking. I wondered where Christ's sacrifice fit into "God's 10 Rules". But B always says Jesus gave us the 10 commandments, so maybe that's the association.

We were given a set of "uncle Paul's" children's books from Pacific Press. Anyone know of those? They were strange, as in not the kind of things I was read when I was young. But I think it's just my ignorance of the culture hanging out.
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, Uncle Paul must have come along after I grew up and after our children got older. What kind of books are they?
Chris (Chris)
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had Uncle Arthur (SDA bedtime stories).

Chris
Melissa (Melissa)
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They are 4 paper back books one on heaven, one about Jesus, one about the senses, and one about they call it God's care. The one about heaven talks about picking fruit from "one special tree"??? and the one on the sense is generally that...sight, sound, hearing, etc. Jesus is about Jesus as your best friend, and care is about talking to God and nothing will hurt you (which really bothered me...that's not at all right...Job, a righteous man was definately hurt and I'm sure he talked to God.). Anyway, I mostly didn't understand the references in heaven. Several things scripture doesn't specifically say.

Author is Paul B Ricchiuti. The copyright is 1975. The story telling isn't very good.
Chris (Chris)
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa, EGW taught that before the flood, God removed the Tree of Life from the earth (possibly the whole Eden garden, I can't quite recall). She taught that the same Tree of Life is now in Heaven and we will eat of it there.

Chris
Dennis (Dennis)
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh,

Our library was saturated and unbalanced (bigtime) with all kinds of Adventist books. Sometimes visitors to our home would question why these books were still prominently visible in our library if we no longer believed in them.

Not wanting anyone else to read them, my wife and I got busy one evening and discarded them all. Our large plastic dumpster was completely filled with SDA books. The dumpster was so heavy, with literally scores of SDA books, that I could hardly maneuver the thing to the curb for garbage pickup.

The following morning, as we were enjoying breakfast, Sylvia and I heard this most, awful-sounding CRASH outside our home as our Adventist library came crashing down into the garbage truck, as it was being hoisted overhead. This was a miniature, curbside "earthquake" in Nebraska! Come to think of it, the crashing sound was really heavenly.

Dennis J. Fischer

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