| Author | Message | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Well, well. It seems we have further proof that the General Conference leadership is feeling the pain of informed dissent. Look at the following article. Paulsen Calls For Theological Unity At Colleges Universities Read it carefully and note that Paulsen has effectively directed a ban on open discussion of theological doubt in any Adventist college or university by students at any level. For the Adventist Review to publish this subtle warning to professors and students is tantamount to an admission of theological weakness. This is an echo of parts of the speech, ìThe Theological Landscape,î made by Paulsen last year. | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
I believe I read somewhere here where the SDA's are loosing a higher percentage of their "home grown" members than any other faith system, save one. This may be an attempt to stop that bleeding, without admitting that the problem exists. <>< Thomas | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Problem? What problem? There are no problems in Adventism--except for the critics who are constantly trying to pull it down. (tongue planted firmly in cheek). Seriously, I agree that this appears to be an attempt to squelch honest academic (and spiritual) curiosity. I could almost understand the church saying that difficult theological issues should not be debated in front of new believers, but we are talking about those who have responded to a calling. Is the church suggesting that they do not have the maturity to discern truth, and that they must be spoonfed a particular brand of it? I know that Greg Taylor (and many others) credit professors who encouraged them to question the status quo with helping them to see the light of the Gospel contained in the New Covenant. I am so thankful that I had "liberal" SDA parents who encouraged me to think for myself. SUch freedom presents a serious threat to Adventism. I wonder why? Doug | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
"Is the church suggesting that they do not have the maturity to discern truth, and that they must be spoonfed a particular brand of it?" Yes. AND they "must not" dare to believe Scripture. Unless of course, they read it through EGW colored glasses or that of the GC ONLY. Denise Gilmore The SDA Church is crumbling. Can you hear it? | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I knew that Paulsen had said all teachers of theology had to sign a statement of belief, and I knew that some theology departments (such as La Sierra U.) which have some really liberal faculty have been trying to "make deals" to get out of signing such a statement. My understanding is, however, that Paulsen has not consented to such a deal, but exactly what those faculties are doing, I don't know. This new statement is particularly interesting in view of the last six months of awakening in Uganda. According to the article in that Review of two weeks ago, 34% of Adventists are in Africa. I know that the GC has "ordered" the conference of which Uganda is a member to take care of the problem, whatever it takes. Just within the last month, the most esteemed theology professer at the Bugema (sp?) SDA seminary (where this awakening began and from which most of the pastors/students who have left had been) also quit. He quit because he could not stand and watch the unfair treatment the students were receiving who were questioning Adventism and discovering the new covenant. He states that he does not believe in 1844, he does not believe the Sabbath is binding for new covenant Christians, and he does not believe in the insiration of EGW. Kenya also recalled the seminary students it had sent to Bugema because they were becoming infected with new covenant ideas. Several months ago, one of the first pastors to leave was invited to move to England with all expenses paid. He would be helped to establish a permament life there--if he would just leave Uganda. He refused, saying God had called him to stay and work for Him there. BTW, if a certain pastor from Uganda is reading this forum, we'd love to have you comment! There is no doubt that the Adventist church is facing a crisis. It's amazing but not surprising to me that Paulsen is so open about holding onto the traditions, limiting discussions, and monitoring questions at the same time Adventism in places like So. California bears almost no resemblance to the traditional church so many of us knew as kids. And yet, there really isn't any conflict here: as long as one espouses the Sabbath and remains loyal--however liberal or "evangelical" he or she claims to be--one is "owned" by the church, even unconsciously. I continue to pray for the truth to be known. Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
I'm with you in prayer Colleen. Love in Christ our Lord. Denise | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
I have been corresponding with a man from Tanzania (Africa) and I believe he said he was an SDA pastor there and now is attending a Pentecostal church. The miracles happening there are unbelievable. We had a pastor from Uganda speak at our church, Jackson Senyonga, he says that the reason aids has dropped so much there is because of the thousands of people being healed from God! He also said that they now have prayer in the schools, christian music in the banks and stores and even the President is a christian. They have dedicated their land to God and He is moving in a mighty way. This all came about when they were being attacked by the Muslims and killed everyday and the church there started holding prayer vigils and just praying and fasting for days at a time and the Lord came to their rescue. I got a copy of his sermon, it was just amazing. Funny you should mention this because my mother was telling me that the SDA church is growing rapidly in Uganda. hmmmmmmmmm | ||
| Doc (Doc) |
Great story! Have you seen the Transformations videos? The second one includes what is happening in Uganda. I also heard that there was trouble in the SDA college there, as so many were leaving and becoming evangelical. Maybe it is the general atmosphere of revival. Hope so! doc | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Haven't heard of them, where do you get them? | ||
| Doc (Doc) |
I got mine from an interdenominational Christian festival in Budapest last year, but I don't suppose that helps much :-) You could try: http://www.transformnations.com/ (sic - the spelling mistake is in the URL!) They are released by the "Sentinal Group" Hope this helps, Doc | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
How interesting, Sabra and Doc! I hadn't heard about the general awakening/revival in Uganda that apparenlty lies behind the awakening at the Adventist seminary. What you said, Sabra, about the prayer vigils, etc. corresponds with what we've heard. When Greg Taylor went to Uganda last February (remember Greg/Nate from this forum two years ago? His and Paula's story is on this website.), he found that many cell groups had grown up that were praying for revival and for a work of God to be done. When Greg came to give support to the Adventist pastors who had left, he held meetings which were supported and aided by these cell groups and a local evangelical church. Greg and this church helped the recently-exited Adventist pastors form a new church which is being aided by the local evangelical church. (These stories are in Proclamation, BTW.) Praise God for what he's doing! Colleen | ||
| Leigh (Leigh) |
I was cleaning out my book case today and didn't realize how many sda books I have. I ran across some books by Lewis Walton that a family member had given us. I started looking through them and started experiencing some of that fear again. Does anybody know much about him and what his agenda is? I know that he is an attorney. it seem like he's trying to instill fear into sda's to keep them from leaving. He was defending the plagarism and talking about the "Alpha and the Omega". The books are headed for the trash. | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
I was a good SDA I would not read anything that was not put out by the SDA publishing. I would look at the front and if it did not have their logo I did not read it. My friend and I who left say we need to have a big book burning. I took all the stuff off my shelves but kept some so I could look up when I was studying to see if what outhers said were true. I think I could have bought a house with all the money I spent. on those books. Their are those out there who try and defend but they talk in circles. I am not sure of the man you mentioned. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Look up his name and adventist on Google and you will see many things about him. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Good idea, Jerry. Richard heard Walton speak many years ago in So. California. He spoke at a public high school auditorium, not at an SDA venue. He said Walton was really a right-wing Adventist, probably too Adventist for most of the So Cal Adventists (whom many of us thought weren't really Adventists!). Interestingly, it was Walton's book "OMEGA" that started my parents on their personal study out of Adventism. They read the book in the 80s, and they knew enough about SDA church history to know that Walton supported EGW's protrayal of some good men as bad people (Ballinger, for instance). My mom said that when she read in OMEGA what EGW had said about Ballinger and how the church had sent him out of the country, she knew EGW couldn't have been a prophet of God. My parents began studying the Bible together, and they basically studied themselves out of Adventism without my really knowing how far they had come in their thinking. It wasn't until they moved near us in 1998 that they finally quit attending an SDA church and joined Trinity EV Free church where we attend. It's ironic, isn't it, how God uses even the most negative things for his own glory? Colleen | ||
| Leigh (Leigh) |
Thanks,I'll have to look him up. The family member who gave us the books had heard him speak at an ASI meeting several years ago. I hadn't begun to question sda doctrine at the time, but remember reading his reasons why comptemporary christian music is so harmful, something about the body swaying from side to side that is supposedly unnatural. Anyone who has "danced" a fussy infant to sleep can tell you differently. | ||
| Leigh (Leigh) |
I just looked L.W. up and scrolled down to "The White Lie" link. According to this, his books were a response to Walter Rea's book to keep sdas inline. thanks | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
I heard him speak at the Texico (New Mexico and West Texas) conference camp meeting a few years ago. Not a word from his lips about anything to doubt. He forecefully proclaimed the SAD doctrine of "getting ready" rather than being ready in Jesus. The fact that one of his books helped Colleen's parents start their journey out of SDA is only indicative that he actually told the truth about something, not that he is one to read if one want's to leave Adventism. Although I've held onto many books, my Lewis Walton books are food for [book] worms. Steve |
