| Author |
Message |
Doug222 (Doug222)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 7:26 pm: |     |
I have made my position on this topic known, but I have to commend Albert Mohler for a very balanced apprach to a very sensitive subject. Mohler may be arguing from a religoius liberty (legal) persepctive, but Judge Moore is definitely arguing from a theological perspective. He wants to compel all to acknolwedge the almight God. This is in clear violation of the principle of freedom of choice. In the famous words of Joshua:
Quote:14 "Now fear the LORD and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your forefathers worshiped beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD . 15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD ."
Would he be just as vehement in supporting the right of Muslims to place a monument that acknowleges Allah? If not, then we have to really question whether this is an issue of religious liberty, or one of asking the government to endorse one religion over another. To do so would be a serious affront to everyone's religious liberty (Christian and nonchristian alike).
Doug |
Melissa (Melissa)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 9:18 pm: | |
Doug, I have the same mixed conflict over school prayer. If they allow Christians to pray, then by equity they need to allow muslims and every other "religious" group out there a time to pray to their god. I think equal access is fair...if they're going to let one group meet on public property, Christian groups ought to be able to meet too, but I hate to see Christians demand a "right" they would not equally want to give another group.
It's a slippery slope indeed. I agree with the comment I've heard many places....we need to pick our battles carefully. The pictures I saw looked dangerously close to idolatry to a hunk of stone... |
Doug222 (Doug222)
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 9:49 pm: | |
Melissa,
The argument that I have typically heard is that our founding fathers intended to keep religion out of government, not the government out of religion. I am not sure how you can have one without the other. I have no problem with religious leaders (and the masses) attempting to influence our elected leaders via the political process. Nor do I have a problem with elected leaders making decisions which are based on their religious values (as long as they also represent the views of their constituents)--this is how the ten commandments became the foundations for all of the laws we have in this country. However, allowing public servants to use the power of their elected position to advance religious causes (no matter how noble) is an abuse of the trust that has been ivested in them by the public. In my opinion, Judge Moore has disqualified himself from continued public service by showing that he does not have the ability to separate his personal views from the solemn oath he took as a public servant. I would hate to be a defendant in his courtroom. A public servant does not have the same right to practice civil disobedience as a private citizen. Judge Moore has lost sight of this very important concept. |
Chris (Chris)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 7:05 pm: | |
This article very elequently sums up many of the views that have been posted in this thread. I think you will appreciate it. It's titled "How to Really Keep the Commandments in Alabama - and Elsewhere"
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/135/31.0.html |
Melissa (Melissa)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 8:28 pm: | |
good article. Did you do the little survey about the judge's actions? Most people seemed to think he was right. (not a scientific poll)
Thanks for pointing it out. |
Cindy (Cindy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 11:08 pm: | |
Yes, thanks Chris... and you're right, I do appreciate the viewpoints of the author (Joseph Loconte)!
Melissa, I took the "survey"; was among the very low percentage of those who think Judge Moore was not right in defying the court order. (To me, it wasn't worth the civil disobedience involved).
If anything, Judge Moore missed a wonderful opportunity to use the discussion of the Monument (Ten Commandments = Old Covenant) "Law" as the "schoolmaster to lead us to Christ".... to JESUS, who says HE is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life"...
grace always,
cindy |
Chris (Chris)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 7:23 am: | |
I particularly liked the sub-title,
"Since when did the public display of the Ten Commandments become the eleventh commandment?"
Chris |
Doug222 (Doug222)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 4:39 pm: | |
Okay, I'll admit that I am not the "smartest rock in the box," but isn't the argument of Moore's supporters asinine. If the placing of the ten commandments in the rotunda is not the establishment of religion, as they argue, then how can its removal constitute the establishment of a nontheistic religion? As I have been saying, the issue here is not about the constitutional prohibition against the establishment of religion. Instead, it is an attempt to compel the corporate acknowledgement of God. What would God do without this not so small army. The sad thing is that I think that in the end they will either prevail, or use this as a rallying point to show how Christians are being persecuted.
Quote:Judge Dismisses New 10 Commandments Suit
.c The Associated Press
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday dismissed a lawsuit by three residents seeking to return a 5,300-pound Ten Commandments monument to the lobby of the Alabama Judicial building.
U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson said removal of the monument did not unconstitutionally establish a religion of nontheistic beliefs, as the residents claimed.
``The empty space or 'nothingness' in the rotunda of the Judicial Building is neither an endorsement of `nontheistic belief' nor a sign of disrespect for Christianity or any other religion,'' Thompson said. He said the empty space demonstrates government neutrality toward religion.
Suspended Chief Justice Roy Moore had the monument moved into the judicial building two years ago, saying it represents the moral foundation of American law. Thompson ruled the monument an unconstitutional promotion of religion by government and ordered it removed. It was eventually put in a storage room last week.
Thompson's dismissal came a day after a spokeswoman for Mississippi Gov. Ronnie Musgrove said Moore had turned down Musgrove's offer to publicly display the monument for a week at the Mississippi Capitol.
``We hope the U.S. Supreme Court will override the federal court's decision,'' Musgrove's spokeswoman Lee Ann Mayo said.
An attorney for the Moore supporters, Jim Zeigler, said a decision has not been made on whether to appeal.
Moore was suspended pending a trial over his refusal to move the monument. The court's eight associate justices ordered it removed.
|
Cindy (Cindy)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 7:28 pm: | |
Just to let everyone know, "Focus on the Family"s web site, www.family.org issued a press release that James Dobson will be on the TV talk show "Larry King Live" tomorrow night, September 5, as Larry's only guest.
I have been a supporter of Dobson over the years and I think he's done a lot of good for family issues (his web site has many good things, one being a movie review guide that is helpful in evaluating films)...
And yet, Dobson's strong support of Judge Moore's Ten Commandment monument is misguided, in my opinion.
Larry usually has a time for live phone calls to the guest. Anyone think they can get thru with a
NEW Covenant question or observation?
grace always,
cindy |
Melissa (Melissa)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 8:58 pm: | |
Cindy, I wondered the same thing (about calling in...). I don't have cable so don't even know how the show's format is usually run. But also, I wondered if it wouldn't make Christians look even more dis-unified to challenge him in such a public forum...since he thinks he's speaking for all of us. Of course, it's because he thinks he's speaking for all of us I want to say something.
I just wonder what the reaction would have been if it were a muslim monument with something from the Koran (corran???? however you spell it...). And how do the Jews feel about it since they think the law is for them, not non-Jews.
And I also loved the 11th commandment question. But given the history we read in another article, I think this judge knew exactly what he was doing when he put the monument up. But it sure looked like idolatry in all the pictures I saw...people bowed down by it, others laying prostrate crying when it was removed.
God must just shake his head that so many of "his own" still don't get it. It makes me wonder what I'm still blind to ... that I need God to help me see clearly. It's sure easy to point out other's flaws, but flaws still exist in all of us.... I need to remember that when being critical of others! Only by his grace.... |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page