| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker |
Good work, Chyna! A few months ago I had the same epiphany you seem to have hadówhen we believe in Christ, we literally become new creatures! That is not a metaphor; it's absolutely real. We become people with living souls, or spirits. The essence of sin, I believe, is having a soul or spirit separated from Jesusóa dead soul. When we are born again, our souls become alive and eternally connected to Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Dead souls spend eternity separated from Jesus, and that separation is eternal. It's not annihlation. At least that's how I see it at this point. In spite of the awfulness of eternal hell, the whole idea of having a living, eternal soul is reassuring and awe-inspiring. It's really exciting to see the Bible making complete sense without trying to force the puzzle pieces in place! Praise God for leading us to truth! Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Today a friend of mine died. While in the hospital room next to his cold body, it came to my mind that he is gone. No breath, no color, no responses, no nothing. I stood there in disbelief that, for one, he is not breathing and secondly, that he's not there. I wanted to cry but two things kept me from crying. One, my friend needed me to be strong, secondly because I kept imagining him with Jesus Christ smiling. I couldn't tell if I was sad or happy. Then a thought came to me, did he finally accept Jesus in his heart? With that, I thought of the alternative destination and could not think on it but had to walk away and pretend that his death didn't greatly affect me. When we came home, I had an hour alone and found that I had to take a walk. You know, get out of this profound thinking state I am still in. During this walk, it really really hit me how in this life, we will face death. BUT,,in Christ Jesus we face eternal life! Death watched me, I could feel it's presense. I looked up to the sky, with all the clouds mingling with the stars and knew, there is so much more beyond this life. So much more than our physical selves, so much that we could do each day to leave love everywhere we go. My friend John died today. I have bread in my freezer because he gave it to me. And he gave with cheerfulness, always laughing and joyful. I am typing on this computer because John took me to another city to get it out of the shop. I have banana bread in the freezer and the taste for his bread pudding that he would make. I remember how he welcomed me into this complex with a meal, homecooked by him. He loved to cook. Thanksgiving dinner for us is this Thursday and John always made the pies. Now, who will make those pies? I have memories of his smile, no teeth and all and how it was always a pleasant thing to hear his voice being that optimistic man he was. He wouldn't go to Church, he didn't want to talk religion. But at the end, this week, he raised his hand during a prayer given over his bed, indicating his participation in the prayer to our Lord God Jesus Christ. This gives me hope to see him again, this gave his ex-wife (my best friend) hope too. Life,,,one day it's here, next day,,gone. I know my thoughts were of John with our Lord right now, I know my best friends thought was that he is simply in the grave waiting the resurrection. We had different beliefs on this subject but, does it matter really? In the big picture of what we call, 'this life', does it matter. For after all, we will die anyway. We will find the answer to death by dying. Unless of course Jesus Comes before we die, but we don't know when Jesus will come. In the final contemplation of this day and my memories of John and seeing the heartaches of so many others that are not young, not healthy, and not full of many more years, love is essential. Everyday this love needs to show, everyday to everyone we talk with, love needs to direct and forever be present. God is love. I love God. And I loved John. He will be missed by all of us here in our little community a great deal. May he rest in peace. Denise | ||
| Cindy |
Denise, Thank-you for your thoughts above; encouraging words to wake up to this morning... I admire your love for elderly people. I, too, enjoy the wisdom of the years so many of them can bring us! Truly, in Christ, there is an EQUALITY between all ages; the differences in the generations being blessings, instead of a curse. Thank-you too, Denise, for reminding me that, as you said, "there is so much more beyond this life. So much more than our physical selves, so much that we could do each day to leave love everywhere we go." Grace to you, Denise... Cindy | ||
| Max |
Good Ol' Country Boy Knew the Truth When Ellen G. White and All Her Learned Theologians Didn't: Here's Where Your Soul Goes at Death I'LL FLY AWAY by Albert E. Brumley Says Brumley, ^^I was picking cotton on my father's farm and was humming the old ballad that went like this: "If I had the wings of an angel, over these prison walls I would fly" and suddenly it dawned on me that I could use this plot for a gospel-type song. About three years later, I finally developed the plot, titled it "I'll Fly Away," and it was published in 1932 [in "Wonderful Message," Hartford Music Co.]. When I wrote it, I had no idea that it would become so unversally popular.^^ Letter to Dorothy Horstman, Jan 10, 1973; reprinted in Dorothy Horstman, Sing Your Heart Out, Country Boy, New York, 1976, p. 51. Hang on tight! Here it is! I'LL FLY AWAY by Albert E. Brumley Some glad morning when this life is o'er, I'll fly away; To a home on God's celestial shore, I'll fly away. I'll fly away, O glory, I'll fly away; When I die, Hallelujah, by and by, I'll fly away. When the shadows of this life have grown, I'll fly away; Like a bird from prison bars has flown, I'll fly away. I'll fly away, O glory, I'll fly away; When I die, Hallelujah, by and by, I'll fly away. Just a few more weary days and then, I'll fly away; To a land where joys shall never end, I'll fly away. I'll fly away, O glory, I'll fly away; When I die, Hallelujah, by and by, I'll fly away. God bless him. I'm crying now. Max of the Cross | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Max, My heart is with you. So is my love for you, my brother in Christ Jesus. Now I can hear that wonderful song playing and find myself singing the lyrics that I now know. Thank you, Denise | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, In the same tape set I played "Suppertime" and "When He Calls Me, I Will Answer" at Tinker's the other week is also "I'll Fly Away";-) That is some serious "soul" music;-)) (Denise?!;-)) Funny thing, for the last 3 or 4 days, I've been playing that song over and over when I take and pick up the kids from school! Loved the history to it too. Nice touch! IBC | ||
| Dennis |
Dear FAF friends, I heartily recommend the book titled "TWO VIEWS OF HELL--A Biblical and Theological Dialogue" by Edward Fudge and Robert Peterson. These two evangelical theologians make a superb presentation on the topic of hell. This is a MUST READ book for the serious Bible student. A biblical view of this topic must be fully compatible with the nature of Christ, resurrection, creationism, incarnation, soteriology, eschatology, fall of man, etc. In other words, the Biblical view of hell must fit into the LARGER picture that makes Christianity meaningful(not merely isolated proof texts). Conditionalism does not fit into the overall soteriological(study of salvation)theme of Scripture. | ||
| Sherry2 |
I'm reading "Marx & Satan" right now by the director of Voice of the Martyrs. Scary stuff. He documented much of Marx being a Christian as a boy, who wrote some beautiful literature, and later became a Satanist, wanting nothing more than for people to become depraved and get taken to the pit with him and Satan and his angels. It is interesting to note that he saw hell as forever. However I'd like to be devil's advocate too, and say that Robert Morneau, who got his hands into demon worship for a season to was told my Satan's minions that the SDA's were protected of God more than any other church for their keeping of the Sabbath. Thank you for recommending that book, Dennis. It was mentioned in "Christianity Today" a few months ago when they did an article in regards to the opposing sides of hell. Reading that Marx book is scary to me because this man was vile, and mouthing the words of Satan himself that we have in Scripture. So against the Creator, and I guess because of Adventism, I saw how one could link Sabbath to show your love for the Creator, and to deny Sabbath would be to deny God as Creator and that is Satanic. You know what I mean? I'm not saying it's the truth of it, but I understand it. The Old Covenant vs the New Covenant is something to keep in mind, as well as moral laws are 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, not just a once a week thing. Anyhow, just my thoughts. | ||
| Shereen |
I wonder if anyone can tell me what the following is actually saying. As Adventists, we were taught that the comma was just put in the wrong place in the new translations. Any one able to help? I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Shereen, Today in greek is: Original Word Word Origin shvmeron neuter (as adverb) of a presumed compound of the art. (3588) and (2250), on the (i.e. this) day (or night current or just passed) Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Semeron 7:269,1024 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech say'-mer-on Adverb Definition this (very) day) what has happened today there is no comma displacement, Shereen, simply the biblical gymnastics one has to do trying to explain the verse in accordance to soul sleep. there is no substantiation that "I am telling you today as in right now, you will be with me in Paradise much later after your soul vanishes and then I bodily resurrect you." do you see how much twisting is involved to arrive at the second erroneous conclusion? I also believe there are no examples of the Bible of the saying, "Truly I say to you today" Lu 4:24 And he said, Truly I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. Lu 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: Truly I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. Lu 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and Truly I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Lu 18:17 Truly I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. Lu 18:29 And he said unto them, Truly I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Lu 21:32 Truly I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Truly I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke when using the word semeron: Truly never uses the phrase, "Truly I say to you right now as in today:" nope, not a single shred of evidence points in that direction. the SDAs have done bible study backwards. Instead of reading the Bible studying it in Greek, Hebrew, in the proper context of the story of Salvation and cultural and historical context. Instead it has come to the Bible with suppositions and then turns to the Bible to substantiate them. The most heinous example of which is IJ. Simply has never been concluded from Biblical exegesis. People have flat out told me that the story of Abraham and Lazarus isn't true. Are we forgetting the speaker of the parable? It was God Himself, Jesus the Son of God telling us the parable. It is not possible for the Son of God to have bad theology!!!!!!!!!! It is also impossible to read Luke 23:43 as a misplaced comma unless that is what one is consciously striving for to think. Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
the word Truly or semeron in Greek is used to convey ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY. so please read the verse again, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." what it says is what it says without any need for paraphrases or subnotes, or addtional conditions or disclaimers. also this is often not taken with the context of the verse before it: "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom" when? truly I say to you, today | ||
| Valm |
Great study on "truly I say to you". I never knew about that. Thanks Chyna. Valerie | ||
| Lydell |
Now Chyna, chill. The story of Lazarus and the rish man IS a parable. Parables are not true stories, that part of it the SDA's have right. It is not only the rich that go to hell and the poor who go to heaven. Here's the footnote in my Bible: "As "Lovers of money" the Pharisees looked upon wealth as a sign of God's blessings, and looked upon poverty as a sign of His judment. Jesus teaches that material possessions are a trust from God, to be used responsibly for good. One's attitude tward possessions is a clear indication of whether one is living self-centeredly or under the total Lordship of Christ." "The main intent of this parable is to call those with a godless view of wealth and righteousness to repent and help others with their money. It is an example of "what is highly esteemed among men (being) an abomination in the sight of God." Remember, everything in context. Go back to the beginning of the chapter and you will see that it is talking about stewardship. And v. 14 and you will see that it says. "now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money..." Of course, we go to be with Christ at our death! And the Bible teaches about hell. But it's a mistake to use this passage as a proof text for the subject one way or another. | ||
| Sherry2 |
I think, though, that the point is that Jesus would not teach a false doctrine within his parables...especially something such as hell. So although it does fall under the parables in the Bible it is also truth. Jesus wouldn't have promoted that story with misleading doctrine. | ||
| Chyna |
ditto sherry. Dear Lydell, my point was not to make the story of Lazarus and the rich man a text proof. it's called anticipation, that's what it is. First of all, it is debated whether it is a parable or not because not in any other sermon that Jesus tells does he NAME people. So that is remarkable. Second of all, I've had Adventists tell me that the story of Lazarus does not give us insight about hell. However, I agree with Sherry that Jesus would not have used misleading doctrine if it were not SO. | ||
| Skip_baker |
My mother who was a life long SDA had a "Near Death Experience" about a month before she died. She was then bedfast in the hospital before actualy dying and going back to God. I was there when it happened and had one of the most profound experiences of my life when she pasted on. It was like pure love coming down into my head. She had tried to tell us what had happened to her the month before but we didn't understand until that happened. For the last month of her life she was totally different. From then on I've read all I can on the subject, and it has given me a lot of comfort to know the soul goes back to God who gave it at the death of the body. Skip | ||
| Sabra |
Does anyone else feel that God is trying to "get through" to the Adventists? I had a woman e-mail me who had been Adventist for 30 years, felt spiritually dead and even doubted God's existence, then her non SDA cousin invited her to a meeting at her church and when they asked for anyone to come forward who wanted the Holy Spirit in their life she went forward, not knowing what to expect. She said she prayed for God to throw down some crumbs to her from His table and she heard him say Come and feast from my table! Then she was slain in the Spirit. Now she was worried about it and said she stayed up all night worrying that it was from Satan when she heard God tell her not to expect that every good thing that happens to her is from Satan. I know this all sounds crazy to us "formers" but I do believe the Spirit is being poured out in a powerful way. It is so nice to hear from people who are being lead out of Adventism by the Spirit! I am so glad I posted my e-mail address on my testimony. | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Denise, Your story touched my heart as I remembered March 9 of last year when my brother-in-law passed away in his home after five months of fighting lung cancer. It was amazing to feel such a mixing of emotions. The experience was awesome. Eddie had been in bed, heavily sedated and on hospice care for several days when hospice told his wife that she needed to make peace with him because he would die within 24 hours, she talked to him as the rest of the family also did. He was fighting for his breath and making a horrible sickening sound while we watched his chest rise and fall, his uncle came in (a preacher) and we gathered around Eddie's bed and prayed for his passage to the other side, I know he heard his uncle praying and you could almost see the peace surrounding him at that moment, his mother had her hand on his chest with all of us touching his body, when he breathed his last and was silent-his mother cried out his name and he came back for a brief second like he was struggling to stay but then she patted him gently and said "go on home, we will take care of your wife and we will all be alright, just go home to rest" and with that he died. His last request was that the simple plan of salvation be preached at his funeral which went as he requested. How wonderful to know that peace, why would anyone want to struggle with the simple plan of salvation? Sorry folks, I didn't mean to go into it that deep, but I feel better having said it. Within six months of my brother-in-law's death, we again attended a funeral, that of my father-in-law who had struggled through surgery and pneumonia and died of congestive heart failure after a two-month stay in the hospital. He had gotten better and had plans on coming home, but God took him home to glory. His last words to his wife were: Honey, I've got to go. This was also very hard on the family but again God sent his peace and then shortly after that, Eddie's widow was involved in a double headon collision that resulted in nine hours of surgery and months of rehab. She has lost vision in her left eye and is just now walking with the aid of a walker, and this was the result of someone reaching in the floor of their car to retrieve a cigarette, he crossed over and hit Jean (who had left the road trying to avoid him) and spun her vehicle around into the path of a semi that was following behind the first car that hit her. If you could see her car, well, it is nothing short of a miracle that she lived to tell about it and will probably be disabled for a long time to come, then just before Christmas, we lost another aunt who was scheduled for surgery to open her veins up in her neck to avoid another stroke the appointment was for the next day after she had the stroke that killed her. Our family has really suffered loss this past year but God in his mercy has led me to many new friends and I hope to add your name to the list of them. We can talk more about other subjects, but for now, I need to get up and going and clean house, bless Goodness, I am glad you are "former adventists" I wouldn't want to offend by stating that I worked on the Sabbath, but God knows our hearts and I can joyfully claim my salvation and stand fast in his liberty. Bye for now, Janice | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Dear Janice, First thing...a hearty Welcome aboard to you! Glad you found this site and hope you stay around. Wow, you have sure had enough deaths to last a person for years! What sadness death does bring us, but isn't it great to know that we are not doomed to stay grave-bound? When I went back and re-read what I had written about John, I started crying again over him. I still miss him and am looking forward to the day when we see each other once again. It is no coincidence that you read that then wrote to me. For just this week, I lost yet another friend to physical death and have cried for days over him. Just yesterday was I somewhat back to normal or out of my grieving stage when this was read by me. I'm thanking you for posting as you did, for it only reminds me of my/our hope even the more. Especially in these days of my life. My belief is that God used you to remind me of His Beautiful Promise to us that we have passed from death to life. Thank you for being an open vessel for God to give me hope that I so desperately needed this week. As they say, no such thing as coincidences. Please stay around this forum and I'm sure you are reading the archives as well. This is a website chuck full of Good News! You too, have alot to offer as I can see by your writings. You are well read in the Scriptures and I'm happy to have you as my sister IN Christ Jesus! If ever you would want to consider emailing me, my email address is: mygodismystrength@hotmail.com I read them latenight as I tend to be a nightowl, just so you know. Hoping to read more of your journey thus far and possibly email contact as well. You have much to teach me, I can tell you that right now. My prayers will go up to God in behalf of yourself and your family beginning this day. May our God, Jesus the Christ, forever Shine His Face Upon you!  your sister in HIM, denise | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Chyna, Glad to hear that you did a study on the word today and comma placement in the verse concerning paradise and the promise Jesus made to the thief. That lie has been fed to the SDAs and used to discredit Christians long enough. I think I mentioned that same verse in one of my post a couple of days ago. Even without all the studies that you noted in your post, if you just looked at the verse in the sentence structure 'as is' and moved the comma like they say--it doesn't make into a good sentence anyway, it almost sounds like he is asking a question--shalt thou be? Read it that way and you see what I mean. I hope you don't mind my comments. I never did a study like you listed in post. I need to get back to my utilities and find out if I can cut and paste a lot of these studies that have been done. I am telling many of my friends about this site, I hope that you don't mind that we aren't former adventists. I had a wonderful worship service this evening and our preacher spoke of the body of saints in an analogy type sermon, he loves football and since the superbowl was on tonight, he decided to note the similar traits between Christians and a football team. He talked about team players and talked about Jesus being our coach, etc. It is never a dull moment at our church. I really wish I could share it somehow. I guess I need to call it a night and rest up for another work week. I am into my third week on a new job. I got laid off from where I had worked for 18 years, back in 2001. I went back to school and got my Computer Applications Certificate and if I ever get to go back to school and finish my Accounting 101, I will earn my Business Office Technology Diploma. With everything that has happened this last year, I just got burned out and now my unemployment ran out, and I had to find a job. I still very much want to work at a computer, I would love to be on a job that allowed me to sit and just talk about the Lord and witness to people and help people study the Word to learn the truth that sets us free. Praise God you have come out of the SDA and seen the light, I pray that you will continue to grow and with study and pray that your strong faith will lead your loved ones to accept the truth as well. Good night for now, and remember that FAITH comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God, so, study, study, study. Love in Christ, Janice |
