| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Welcome, Roseheartgirl! | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
This messianic sda site has some very interesting material on it. You will have to search for this but this is what I found. A study of Galatians, this really peaked my interest since I cannot see how anyone can read that and understand it any other way than it is presented. Go to www.messianicsda.org, then to study groups under stay in touch and then to http://.groups.yahoo.com/groupSDAFeastForum, then to files, then Galatians Part 1. I think of special interest is the last paragraph on page 3 going into page 4. One sentence; The question at issue is not is not a vital question and should not be treated as such. I would have to differ since it either is the law of Moses that is being talked about or it isn't. It makes all the difference in the world. Either we are worshipping the Law or we are worshipping the same one who gave us the promise 430 years before. Check it out for yourself and let me know what you think. Carol | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
Welcome Roseheartgirl! It's exciting to read so many new members!!!! Please tell us a little about yourself. Janice, please don't go away! As others have mentioned on this forum, it's so hard when you're writing/reading something to really know the person's intent and heart. There are many times I want to say something, but don't because I know it won't come out right in print, and might be misunderstood. I know everyone on this forum is full of love for you and for all of us, and nobody is looking for a fight or someone to pick on or criticize. Every now and then someone comes along that does want to challenge or be a little critical, but I haven't seen anyone like that in a long, long time. I'm excited about the level of Christian love and enthusiasm I know exists on this forum, and I'll pray we all continue to love, respect, and accept one another. Love and prayers to all, Carol #2 | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Another Carol, You started a post like this: "This messianic sda site has some very interesting material on it. You will have to search for this but this is what I found." I'm so envious right now and upset cause I STILL cannot get to that site...nomatter which address I try! Hmmmm, wondering if maybe God doesn't want me to be reading it right now, considering that I was raised with ALL the Jewish Customs, Holy Days, etc. etc....ya think? This night there is some anxiety in me so maybe I'd stumble while reading it or something...who knows? but God. Maybe when I'm stronger, the site will be accessible to me. Thanks for the addresses though and enjoy the site ::sniff sniff::::...read for two of us, okay?  Blessings always IN Christ Jesus, denise | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
Denise, This is the site: www.messianicsda.org , then you click on stay in touch, at the left, then in the box that appears you click study groups. Now you will click the group that says This is moderated by Sidney Davis. Now you will be in Yahoo Groups and click on files at the left, now click on galatians pt.1.pdf and you will be at the part I thought was interesting. The page that I was particularly interested in was last part of page 3 and going into all of 4 where they are discussing the law as spoken of in Galatians. I hope this helps. Don't be concerned that it is something that would mislead you it is just more of the SDA twist and turn the scripture and try and come up with a way to say the law spoken of in Galatians is not the 10 commandments. It in some places even contradicts itself. Imagine that. If you can't get it leave your email with Colleen and then I will send it to you. I just about forgot about it myself and it is rather hard to find. I did make a copy of it. Carol | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Thanks Carol, And I still can't get it...so, yes I'd like a copy of this. Here is my email address for either yourself or Colleen. I'd sure appreciate a copy. mygodismystrength@hotmail.com God Bless, Denise | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Hi! I sure have missed all you folks out there in Cybertland. I have been very busy and have not had time to post lately. I met my two youngest grandchildren last week for the first time. They are the most adorable twins ever there could be. RThey were born April 17th. A boy and a girl. My son was raised very nominal sda yet he wants me to take his 5 year old daughter up to the sda vbs every dsy this week, which I will do because vbs doesn't get into too much of the goofy sda doctrines. He also is planning on sending her to the sda day school. I honestly don't think he knows much about the sda doctrines. To me his attitude is that the sda church is the church of his beloved grandparents so it must be the right and the best church there could possibly be. I won't butt in yet but someday I think it will come to a head when his young wife begins to notice how goofy some of the sda stuff is. Do any of you out there have any great insight on this sort of family dynamics? BTW, him and his family arrived from Italy in California last week and he will be stationed in California, only 140 miles from me for the next three years. Cool. I'll get to hang with the grandkids and watch them grow into real special little people, which they already are but I'm sure you all know what I mean. | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I figured I'd put last nights outing with my mom under this title. I hope it is the approiate title to share this with you. Have you out there in Cyberland ever listened to the music of John Michale Talbot? Well, I l-o-v-e his music. I had heard that he was giving a concert in a city nearby so I asked my mother if she would like to go hear a Christian singer with me. I figured she would because she is elderly and does not drive anymore and honestly, I am forever racking my brain to come up with things for me and my mom to be able to do together that we both would truly enjoy. Fortunatelly she said she would like to go hear the music so I got us each tickets. The music was wonderful. The program was wonderful. It was like a two hour retrete of awsome singing to the glory of our God. Mr. Talbot gave a Christian testemony and he talked about the two missionaries that were murdered by the bandets last week off in some rouge low-down country run by thugs that totally surpresses the people. Well John Michael is Catholic and the cincert was in a large Catholic church. I am pleased to say that my mom totally enjoyed the concert and she even of her own freewill gave an offering to the mission that John Michael's a part of. The evening was wonderful, perfect. | ||
| Speakeasy (Speakeasy) |
Susan what a great time this was for you with your Mom. Praise the Lord. speakeasy | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Susan, John Talbot has a brother, Terry, who is a fantastic musician. I heard him about three weeks ago at a Calvary Chapel. If you get a chance, go hear him---his albums are not sold in stores. There is a great album he put together with Barry McGuire that has a lot of great old songs like 'Eve of Destruction', the 'Butterfly song' and some of the newer ones as well. | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
Urgent plea. Jerry, notice... anyone who can help. Please sign on to the CARM website...we desperately need people who know the Gospel, to defend the Gospel. There are several staunch SDA's on there totally defending Ellen White and distorting salvation...People who are not saved lurk on this site...it is a good ministry...I don't want them sucked in by the SDA's song and dance...it greatly appeals to the flesh, as you know... the site is www.carm.org several of us are already on it...Chriscarol, doug, etc. Please check it out. | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Pheeki, after being involved in several extended online discussions with members of "Christian" sects I have come to question the value of this type of online debate. On all the various forums I've been on over the years I have yet to see anyone involved in an online debate ever say, "You know, you have a really good point there. You just might be right. I'm going to rethink my position". In my experience it just doesn't happen. In addition, I have found that getting involved in these never ending online debates tends to wear me out, make me depressed, and tends goad me into being less than loving at times. I'm starting to wonder if the following versus might apply to online debate: ``Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them.'' Mark 6:11 (NASB) 14 Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16 Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. 2 Tim 2:14-17 (NIV) 3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and ***understands nothing;*** but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. 1 Tim 6:3-5 (NASB) I'm interested to know what others think about the value of this type of sparing. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it might even do some good, I'm just wondering if the good out does the toll it takes upon the combatants.....still not sure on this question....very interested in your responses. Chris | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Doh! No sooner did I hit "post" than I found the text I REALLY wanted: 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. Titus 3:9-11 (NIV) | ||
| Leigh (Leigh) |
Hi Chris, I went to the site and read alot of the debates, but like you, it wore me out. I was so angry at some of the responses. Why can't some of those people see through that "White" veil?!!??!! I can't carry on a debate like that and retain my sanity. However, I think that Pheeki and the others on carm who stand up for the gospel have made some terrific points. Maybe some of those points will lead an sda searching for truth to our real "Sabbath Rest" and out of bondage. Maybe it might help someone who is thinking about becoming an sda to have second thoughts. I worry, too about the emotional impact on the "combatants". I guess all of us need to know when to call it quits and leave it in the Lord's hands. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
If people are seeking for truth they will admit when they are wrong. I've said it plenty of times. If you can prove me wrong, then I want to know it. I have met other christians that responded the same. Debating isn't for everyone and if it wears you out, it isn't for you. I love it and really learn a lot from it, even about my own point of view. If it turns into an arguement, or isn't edifying anyone, it is pointless and useless. I have tried to get on the CARM site before and had trouble, I might try again. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Pheeki, I understand your frustration. It just so happens that I have been lurking for the past couple of weeks. I had thought very seriously about adding my comments, but I have chosen not to do so. The problem with arguing with Greg, dconklin, and others is that you and I see the entirety of their arguments from a scriptural point of view. They, on the other hand, seem only to deal with the point in the argument at a particular thought. To be sure, they have much ammunition to spew at each point, but they cannot see the connection and contradictions from another part of their arguments. For instance: In your "ultimate goal" question, Greg does the regular circle of "Justified by faith . . . but, the fruit . . ." argument. This means that, while he denies that keeping the Sabbath plays a part in justifying us. However, he uses it as a "litmus test" for "true justification." He believes that putting the "requirement" temporally after the justification relieves him of the duty to prove the requirement. He will never see that he is flip-flopping cause and effect. This, of course, means that the Sabbath is required, in his mind. This type of argument is a classic circular argument. I am still very hesitant to join in there because, I am quite certain it would do no good. Greg, dconklin, and others feel duty bound to flood each point made by opponents with unproven volumes without addressing most of the points properly made against their position. This is the spirit of deception. You do well with your posts, as does DrPatti, but I fear the others, like a certain "BS," who was here before, will cause nothing but frustration. I will be glad to discuss this further, if you wish. However, it may not be appropriate here. God grant you peace, Pheeki. Jerry | ||
| Cindy (Cindy) |
I am in agreement with you, Chris, at this time in my life; although there was a period of time when I felt like I needed to more strongly debate the issues. But, for better or worse, I have mellowed as far as that feeling of intensity. I continue to pray to be open to God's leading...when to speak up (and when to be silent). I am learning that for me, that is enough for now. grace always, cindy p.s... I did look up the CARM website; it made me weary, but I'm sure there are some who are helped by the discussions... hopefully in reinforcing the Holy Spirits' leading involved in their questioning of Adventisms' belief structure. I guess my time & energy level right now can digest only one "forum". :-) And, Pheeki, may God give you a restful spirit as you promote with a humble boldness the magnificence of Jesus Alone! :-) | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
I would say I understand totally what you say about being depressed on sites such as Carm, but having said that I must say that I literally am compelled to stay with it. There have been many times when I have said to myself just give it up and let them go but something or someone goads me on. When this happens I usually am refreshed by something that happens. Contrary to what you say Chris I have seen people come to the conclusion that they need to revaluate their walk and is it with Christ or is it a set of values confuluted by man. We had one such man a few weeks ago or probably more like months now that was adamant about the Sabbath(not SDA) but when we talked with him he began to see that it is only a means to an end and the end is not Jesus.(These are my words not his) Nevertheless I quess if we make any headway with even one it is worth it. I would ask like Pheeke also to join us but that would have to be only if you felt the real call. I will tell you that it won't be warm and caring like it is here but it will be thought provoking. I would have to say that the verse you made reference to in Titus is a very important one to me also. I am not debating about the law in that I want to know how to keep it I am debating which do we need the Law or Jesus Christ. I feel I must stand firm for the fact that if we think we need more than Jesus Christ we are in danger of the worst. I will share that with whoever wants and even those who don't because my God tells me to feed my sheep. If you can't join us please pray that God's will be done as we strife to give people freedom. Matthew 10: 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. I just want to share something that just now this minute happened with this verse. I know a lot of verses but when I go to look for them I cannot find them and thus it was with this one. I knew it was in Matthew but can usually not find it. So I went to Bible Gateway and put in Matthew 10 and Praise God there it was. Notice it is for His name's sake not the Sabbath thus I drudge on for His name's sake, Carol | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
Pheeki, I'm proud of you for your stand over there. I think that when one is coming out of SDA'ism there is a time when one wants to debate and by so doing reaffirm that they aren't crazy, deluded by Satan, etc. I know I went through that phase and I suspect others here did so as well. I will tell you though, that die hard SDA's are impossible to reach until they are ready. You may reach one or two over a period of a few years, but don't plan on a lot of success. Also, if the water gets too hot for them, they just slip away and form another obnoxious forum. We used to have several of the aforementioned posters on A-Tomorrow but several of us 'formers' gave them such a hard time they eventually left. BTW Chris, I have been on A-Today/Tomorrow for years and my views did change as the result of a poster over there. We have become friends over the years and I've changed around to defending several of her eschatological views. So, you just never know. | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Very interesting comments all. It's good to hear that in fact some views have been changed and some people have been helped. Very encouraging. Lest there be any misunderstanding, I am extremely supportive of proclaiming the Gospel message and standing up for the Faith. I have had several Adventists into my home and gone to their houses to study the covenants. There have been some success in that 3 families I've studied with have come out of Adventism. There have also been some dismal failures in that we lost two of our best long time friends after these studies. I have spent extended time reasoning with Mormons when they came to my home. I have written articles on the IJ and on clean vs. unclean foods. So I am in no way questioning our duty to share the Gospel and to reason with those who need light. It would be more accurate to say I have been questioning the medium of online forums as a format for debate. It seems like there is just something about this annonymous medium that engenders misunderstanding, overly contentious speech, never ending repetitive circular arguments, a loss of love, and above all a strong competitive urge to "win" ......perhaps I am only discribing myself and the things I struggle with. If people are truly being helped then I commend those who have taken up this ministry. Introspectively, I know I should avoid that type of contentious annonymous debate until I get over the need to win decisively, to always be right at all cost. I strugled with this as an Adventist, and to some degree I struggle with it now. Chris |
