| Author |
Message |
Dennis (Dennis)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 9:09 pm: |     |
Chris and Sabra,
Ward Hill and I have known each other for many years (since the 1970s). By mutual agreement, he leaves papers, reviews, critiques, and notes in our garage. Being we aren't home very much during the day, this seems to work best. I just leave him materials between the two front doors at his house. We have tried hard not to let our theological differences change our friendship. Admittedly, this oftentimes takes a generous dose of Christianity. They now view us as "enemies" of Adventism. I keep telling him that I love the SDA people but not their religious system. I also remind him that Adventists expect Catholics to fully understand and appreciate such comments. (smile).
Being I have an online chaplaincy ministry, my dialogue with Dr. Hill provides me with the best SDA defense that their apologists can muster for their esoteric views. My dialogue with him has sharpened my skills in communicating the gospel to Adventists in cyberspace. It is important for me to know the complexity of Adventism backwards and forwards, even better than their apologists, in order to successfully reach them with the gospel of Jesus Christ. We need to be savvy in answering objections even before they verbally arise.
There is yet another important reason for my continuous dialogue with Dr. Hill. I consider him fully responsible for having deceived thousands of students in his college classes. He is a very controlling teacher--even in his Sabbath School classes. Someone that teaches lies as the gospel should be fully exposed. Sylvia and I now know more about Adventism than when we were still members. Our exchanges are often quite frank. I seriously doubt that he ever dealt with another former SDA that gave him such a thorn in the flesh. I keep him constantly on the defensive. We both are former colporteurs. So, we both are articulate in our views as extraverts. Sadly, we both have the additional commonality of having preached the same lies as ministers. He served as acting president of Union College and also as chairman of the religion department several years ago.
Dennis J. Fischer |
Lydell (Lydell)
| | Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 8:42 am: | |
Just learned an interesting thing about diet. It appears that soy products should be totally avoided in treating my hubby's high-triglyceride problem. Geeee, thanks SDA for 7 years of food analogs! sheesh
I've been taking an excellent study called The Kingdom of God (produced by the Vineyard Bible Institute)this year. Came across a part of the study last night that really could have been labeled "adventism". In this particular chapter, the author, Derek Morphew, had been discussing the frustration that we Christians experience in being already fully members of the kingdom, complete in Christ,yet still fighting our flesh battles.
He was discussing how different views of the kingdom of God in history have contributed to the frustration and confusion. In this section He was addressing the "groaning" tradition that stresses an emphasis on poverty,chastity, and humility being all important requirements for membership in God's kingdom. He mentioned some of the weird things that have been encouraged like flagellation, and forms of asceticism to curb the flesh.
He was pointing out that an attitude linked to heavy emphasis on these things is a tendency to have the desire to "escape from society to avoid the power of the world and its many temptations. The underlying assumption is that the Christian is too weak to stand up to real temptations in a real world.....(this leads to)an approach to spirituality that focuses on introspection, denial, mortification and legalism." Have we seen that, or what?
He went on to make the observation that when groups get out of balance and focus on the extreme of a morbid emphasis on sanctification and combines this with 'remnantitis', one arrives at defeatism. Defeatist Christianity sees the kingdom as a (wholly)future event..... Remnantitis is a way of rationalizing the failure of the church to evangelize the world". eww...
I was just really struck that SO much of this section was describing Adventism spiritual bubble of arrogance, and yet they STILL stress that the believer must be perfected! |
Pheeki (Pheeki)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 10:15 am: | |
Just learned an interesting thing about diet. It appears that soy products should be totally avoided in treating my hubby's high-triglyceride problem. Geeee, thanks SDA for 7 years of food analogs! sheesh
please elaborate!!! I didn't know this. |
Lydell (Lydell)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 7:13 pm: | |
Pheeki, can't give any more info on it right now. Have to go back and find the site again since I can't find the paper where I wrote the web address (and this darned laptop battery is dying on me!).
My guess is it would have to do with the number of carboydrates (a HUGE problem with high triglycerides)in the meat analogs. I meant to take a look at some labels to check that out when I went to the grocery this week. |
Lydell (Lydell)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 7:30 pm: | |
Pheeki, looked it up real quickly. The site I originally saw that on was one of those that are suspect (they were selling a product of some kind). But, I did see some more info on another site. www.thyroid.about.com that went into some detail about the problem with the "isoflavones" found in soy. They can cause problems in those with a history of autoimmune diseases or undiagnosed throid problems by triggering throid problems. I'm assuming the other site mentioned them as a thing to be avoided with high triglycerides because sometimes there can be a throid problem that causes high triglycerides. Clear as mud or what?
And aren't we enjoying this cool temperature tonight in the deep south! It is about doggone time! |
Debbie (Debbie)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 11:03 am: | |
Hi Pheeki, I'm a RD (Registered Dietitian) and friend of Colleen and Richard, and would like to help answer your question regarding the soy and triglyceride. Without background information re: your husband I searched the latest scientific journals. What I found in the literature confirmed what already know regarding soy protein and Cholesterol/blood fats/lipids. That is, in general they are associated with a DECREASE in fats, not an increase. Where did you get your information.
Hope I can be of some further help.  |
Debbie (Debbie)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 11:12 am: | |
Hi Pheekie,
I'm a RD (Registered Dietitian) and friend of Colleen and Richard, and would like to help answer your question. After reading your post, I did some research in the professional/medical literature. Without a background on your husband's specific condition, based on what I found, and what I already know regarding the relationship between soy and triglyceride, in general, eating soy protein in the diet is associated with a DECREASE in blood cholesterol, lipids/fats. Where did you get your information?
I hope I can be of further help. |
Debbie (Debbie)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 11:14 am: | |
Sorry about the duplicated message. It's been over a year since I posted, and I thought the first post didn't take.
Debbie |
Lydell (Lydell)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 1:10 pm: | |
Hi Debbie, it was me, not Pheekie that has the hubby with the triglceride problem (hyperlipodemia, type 3). And I appologize to the rest of you who are being bored stiff by this that has nothing to do with you! ha
Found the site through thyroid.about.com Didn't have alot of time to sit and dig through stuff last night to find out if I was looking at a reputable site, there is SO much stuff on the web to dig through, as you know too well. Have been trying to stick to the better known organizations, American Heart, Diabetes, etc. that one was just one I stumbled on. So I must have slipped up on this one.
A nurse friend gave us a copy of a page of some chart from one of her medical books last week. It was the first time we had seen anything indicating that the different types of lipodemia have some different dietary recommendations. But it did explain some of the conflicting info we have seen I think.
ANY help you can give would be deeply appreciated...and I can't say that strongly enough...this is too involved a story, and I won't take up space for it here. You can e-mail if you think you have the time to offer more help.
davdell@msn.com Have some specific questions on diet and haven't located the answers for those yet. |
Leigh (Leigh)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 3:23 pm: | |
Hi Debbie,
Lydell had mentioned that soy products may adversely affect the thyroid gland. I had read about that also. I think ABC's 20/20 did a show about it awhile back, too.
Just curious to see what you think. So many of us probably have eaten many pounds of canned vegemeat in our lifetimes! (fri chick and swiss steaks were my favorites!)
thanks |
Debbie (Debbie)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 8:56 am: | |
One thing I can definitely tell you in relation to the meat analogs, is that they are often high in "hydrogenated vegetable oils," even if the analog itself is not high in fat. Hydrogenated vegetable oils are the oils that are artificially made more saturated in order to be solid at room temperature (for example, margarine). These types of fats are linked with increases in blood lipid levels, though it has been controversial. Hydrogenated vegetable oils are used in a lot of processed foods, including baked goods.
Also, it's been quite some time since I've eaten the canned meat analogs, but oftentimes they are VERY high in fat. One thing I know for sure, is Fri chik is extremely high in fat. Thus, it's important to read the labels, and nutritional content and list of ingredients when purchasing these foods if you're concerned about your lipid levels.
Studies on soy protein, as far as I can tell, are not done on analogs, only on the pure soy itself, which is good for you. It is a very high quality protein, especially isolated soy protein. But if you're interested in eating something that tastes like hamburger, steak, or chicken, without dealing with the issues involved with "processed foods" you will probably have to work harder in the kitchen.
Soy milk and tofu are examples of soy products that aren't "processed" as mentioned above. |
Leigh (Leigh)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 3:11 pm: | |
Thanks for the the information. It's been awhile since I bought canned veggie food.(too far to drive to buy it) We eat tofu once in awhile and my husband and daughter drink soy milk because of lactose intolerance. I remember someone giving a talk on health at a church function, saying that the canned veggie meat is worse for you than real meat. So, now when I want something that "tastes like chicken" I eat chicken. |
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