Archive through December 01, 2003 Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 2 » SDA vs Christianity » Archive through December 01, 2003 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a bit off the topic of the discussion title but I'll post here anyway. I have areal frustration with my elderly mom and her idea of right/wrong. As many of you already know, when I told my mom I'd actually became a member of the local of a local Lutheran church my mom was very visibly upset. For some reason that I completely fail to understand, my mom along with most SDA's think if someone goes to a worship service on Sunday then that person is "breaking the Sabbath". This makes no sense to me because those are two completely different time periods. So now I'm dirt because I break the Sabbath by going to church on Sundays. Yet, my mom will go to Knott's Berry Farm on Saturdays. Now, does this make any logical sense to any of you out there on this forum? Now, another breif comment about vegetarianism. Down the street from my children is a Hare Krishna commune. I have attended their service several times. My kids go nearly each week. After their service they have a feast that is open to everyone. They use dairy but no animal meat or eggs. Let me make this very clear, those Hare Krishna's make the very best tasteing food I haveever eaten. Not only doesit taste really super yummy but it is packed with nutrition. I had the Hare Krishna cook teach me to make tofu pizza. And, the food is the main reason I encourage my children to go to the Hare Krishna gathering each week. At least then they get one really super good meal each week. And, the Hare Krishna's are really super nice people. Now, on to the problen I'm having with my husband. We sort-of are thinking he took my car and ran off clear across the country to the state of his birth where his closest kin are. He left nearly a week ago and before he left he went and told my mom he was leaving and that he wouldn'tbe back. And, none of have been able to reach him since then. I just don't know what is going on and there's nothing I can do about it because I'm on an island 3000 miles from California. I'll have a lot of issues to deal with when I get home.
Pheeki (Pheeki)
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am still healing but the wound gets reopened every so often when I attend the SDA church for my family. I am trying to keep the peace.

Everytime I go...I just sit there and grit my teeth and it never fails that the Holy Spirit points out some error to me.

I do like the Praise Team that my husband is on...I like the music a lot.

I have outright told the pastor exactly how I feel and he has no desire to confront me on any of my beliefs. I think deep down he may believe as I do but is keeping his job. Yet he feels compelled to preach on things like the 13 fundamental beliefs...one each Sabbath. Nauseating!
Melissa (Melissa)
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pheeki...My situation is different because we aren't married, and I have never officially gone to "church" with him, though I did attend one service at a supposed campout. So, I don't have to "keep the peace". And I'm pretty determined to keep our son out of the religion as long as possible.

Do you attend elsewhere, though, to get fed yourself? That's really important to get some encouragement and support. No one is meant to be an island.

I am praying for you, that you take some time for YOU and that the Lord will minister to you and your own needs. There's no way you can serve him if you are empty yourself. I pray the Spirit will continue to direct you in his time.
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I attend the SDA service nearly each week with my mother. I sit there and take notes and write comments about what the minister is saying and give him texts that refute what he just said to the congreation. The preacher always thanks me for paying attention ( I think this is because a fair amount of the SDA's sleep) through the worship service), he also has told me he looks up the texts I give him. He has never encouragedme to "comeback" however he does thank me for bringing my mother and staying with her.
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think denomination has anything to do with being a christian. You either know Jesus, or you don't. I see "christians" in lots of denominations that do not have a relationship with Christ. If you know Him and you seek Him, He will show you truth and you wont find that completely in any denomination.
Violet (Violet)
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I attended an SDA funeral this week. The lady who died was a long time SDA and I thought she was a wonderful person. The pastor held the service is also much loved by many and in my opinion a humble servant, yet misguided. As he read the text: I Thes 4:13 "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus." He choked on the words of the 14th verse. He was trying to comfort the family that Jesus will come again, but all I heard was his hesitation. I just wonder if he knew he was teaching the wrong thing and was afaid someone would catch on, or if he was just choked up about the death.
Sabra (Sabra)
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you know Violet, I just heard lately that when Jesus ascended in a "cloud" was the same original word used in We are surrounded by such a great "cloud" of witnesses...the preacher was saying that the cloud Jesus ascended in was the witnesses--or saints that were stuck in Abraham's bosom or paradise. 1 Thess 4:13 seems to confirm that too, God will bring with Him (Jesus) those who sleep in Jesus. hmmmm

I doubt the SDA preacher thought anymore of it than what they teach, that the verse means they are asleep until the second coming.

After debating with them for 2 years now I see why the soul sleep doctrine is so important to them, without it, the IJ fails, because we are already in heaven or hell, the atonement being future fails for the same reason, the close of probation is pointless, and there are others, they are all so intertwined it's freaky.

One thing that I wonder, if spirits die, why is the devil still alive?
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think, Sabra, that they would say the devil is an angel, so he is different from humans and cannot compare with the human situation.

Pheeki, I have the same concerns as Melissa: are you able to do any consistent and inductive Bible study, and do you have any in-the-flesh Christ-followers with whom to interact? I will pray that you will find a group to study and worship with.

Colleen
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to say right now that SDA and JW are the most depressing places to ever find oneself. Neither group teachesthat a person can ever truly know if or not they are saved and will enter into the Kingdom of God. In fact, the JW'steach that only 144,000 people from throughout the entire history of the earth at the time of Crrists second coming will even becaught up with Him at His assencion. Everyone not included in that 144,000 will have to work their as*es off for 1000 years (the mellinium) trying to convince everyone else who has ever lived to becomeJW and at the endof that 1000 years those who still have rejected the JW truth will be wasted away in a lake of fire. None-the-less, SDA and JW funerals are total downers.
Leigh (Leigh)
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bible Study Fellowship International has interdenominational Bible study groups all over the U.S. and the world. I know of several individuals and families who attend and really enjoy them. Their website is:
www.bsfinternational.org
The site gives you locations and times for the meetings. I just heard about this over the summer. Has anyone else heard about this organization or has anyone ever attended any of these Bible Studies?
Bmorgan (Bmorgan)
Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 4:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, though I have not studied with them, I know they are very good. I have several friend who are doing or have been part of BFS.

Somehow, the Lord led me to Community Bible Study which I think is a spin off from BFS. CBS is also very good and they too have a website. I know oof other people on here who have been part of BFS.

These study fellowships are wonderful teaching organization.I still wonder how come I was so out to lunch, so ignorant while all around me was on ocean of truth and security.
Chris (Chris)
Posted on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 6:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Violet, I'm suprised the minister even read v.14 of I Thess. 4. The last SDA funeral I went to the minister read v.13, completely skipped v.14, and jumped right to v.15. That tells me there is a willingness to discount or disregard scripture if it seems to conflict with SDA teaching.

Chris
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have several friends who have been involved in BSF. It is very good, and CBS is also very good. I do hope you can find something like them to supply a place where you can study and fellowship, Pheekie.

You're right, Chris, about Adventism's traditional willingness to discount or overlook scripture if it conflicts with their teachings.

Colleen
Dennis (Dennis)
Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!

Former Adventists, of all people, have so much to be grateful for this Thanksgiving season. How can we ever thank our Heavenly Father enough for releasing us from the cultic grip of Adventism? Our newfound freedom in Christ is nothing less than a miracle of His love and grace.

Keep gratitude alive in your heart! Try living on "Thanksgiving Street." People will be glad at the sight of you. "Oh, thank God--he's so good! His love never runs out. All of you set free by God, tell the world! Tell how he freed you from oppression" (Psalm 107 The Message).

With gratitude,

Dennis J. Fischer
Doug222 (Doug222)
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Quote:

How can we ever thank our Heavenly Father enough for releasing us from the cultic grip of Adventism? Our newfound freedom in Christ is nothing less than a miracle of His love and grace.





Amen Dennis! The thing that I have found though is that there are other more mainstream groups that are almost as (I started to say "just as")cultic as Adventist. In my experience, the person who truly speaks of the freedom that is found in Christ is rare indeed. We have much to be thankful for sure.

In His Grace

Doug
Doc (Doc)
Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have a point Doug,

From reading the contributions, I see that many of you former Adventists here "get it," i.e., understand what the gospel really means, and that's great! Many people I come across here, in more mainstream churhes, do not appear to get it. Of course, this is Eastern Europe...

My father, for instance, struggled for years trying to preach the gospel in a Baptist church in Northern England, without a great deal of success (he was a deacon for years).

The name of the denomination I belong to here translates as "Evangelical Pentecostal Fellowship," though none of the three words seem to be accurate in practice. The majority of the membership seem to be just as addicted to cultic legalism as any Adventist - of course, the lists of rules are a little different, but they are still there.

Situations can be more complex than we would like...

Always keep Jesus in the centre!
Adrian
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been pondering this same phenomenon more and more. So many Christians are also bound in some form of Galatianism or altered gospel. I'm starting to define this situation in two ways:

1. Legalistic Christian churches may be 'way off the mark in their understanding of salvation and of what accomplishes salvation, but in general these churches were nonetheless founded on Biblical principles which are rooted in the gospel. While currently some congregations may be spiritually dead, still the churches themselves are not founded on deceptions and the influences of false prophets.

2. It may be necessary for many Christ-followers to ask God to direct them whether or not to stay at the churches they're currently in. God may be leading many of his people out of the comfort (or discomfort!) of their churches into new fellowships where they will be spiritually fed and can begin to grow more. On the other hand, God may also be calling people to awaken where they are and to begin living in the freedom of the gospel, sharing Jesus with those around them. (It sounds, Adrian, as if your current calling is much like this.)

The point I'm making is this: spiritual deadness and false teachings have crept into MANY Christian churches. In fact, I believe that the post-Christian phenomenon in Europe is creeping into North America, and our environment which is hospitable to evangelism will eventually be over. God may be calling many people out of their churches. But there is still a difference between a Christian church where false eaching may be proliferating and a cult which has no true gospel in its foundation.

Paul exhorted the Corinthians and the Galatians to return to the pure gospel and to leave behind all kinds of perverted and sinful practices and doctrines. But he still considered them followers of Christ.

I believe many people come to crises of conscience that require them to leave their traditional churches and find fellowship with active Christ-followers. But, as I told a lady at our church recently when she wondered how Adventism was different from a legalistic Baptist congregation, the difference is that the Baptists have the gospel at the core of their statement of faith; Adventists have built their entire "faith" on the skewed teachings of a false prophet.

Thank God for leading us always closer to him and for continuing to reveal himself through his word!

Colleen
Rochelleradclif (Rochelleradclif)
Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also thank God for delivering me out of
Adventism and into the light of the gospel of
Jesus Christ. In spite of the challenges of
explaining the change to family and friends,
it has truly been a blessing to have a real
and authentic relationship with the Creator
of the Universe who is loving and all powerful.
Some of the ways He communicates with us once
we are saved "His way" are absolutely awesome.
He truly does number the hairs on our head and
order our steps!
Doc (Doc)
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 6:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very good points Colleen,

In a mainstream church you can exhort people to return to the faith of the founders, because many denominations came out of genuine revival movements. In a cult, you really don't want people to return to their roots, but to get out of there!

On another subject, I have been a few different places this last week (also see prayer request below). On Monday I was invited to a "Bible workshop" for pastors in Budapest. I was very pleased with what I heard. Some of the people had been involved with very legalistic, controlling movements, but had come through and gained a lot of understanding.

One thing someone said really spoke to me: Jesus said, 'I am the way and the truth and the life, no-one comes to the father except by me' and also 'where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst." So Jesus is the way to the Father, but if any church, movement, denomination, prophet, domineering pastor or whatever comes along and says, you can only come to Jesus through us, then that is the spirit of Antichrist. They are placing themselves between a believer and Christ.

I thought that was a good principle to bear in mind.

Of course, this does not mean you don't need to be involved with other believers, or don't need leadership in the church - those are other issues.

God bless,
Adrian
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's a great observation, Adrian. The spirit of Antichrist says you can only come to Jesus through an intermediary. That's actually helpful for defining "movements".

Rochelle, what a wonderful thing to read your praise to God. I loved your description of having a "real and authentic relationship with the Creator of the universe." That's absolutely awesome.

Colleen

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration