| Author | Message | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi - I'm new here and wanted to say thank you to all of you. I have been reading your posts for awhile and have been encouraged beyond measure as I've journeyed out of Adventism. Somehow there is comfort in knowing that others have had similar experiences and that I'm not just losing my mind. I look forward to fellowshipping here as a member. God bless you each and every one! Happy holidays! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 173 Registered: 7-2003 |
Welcome Spkenfor! It's good to have you here. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1861 Registered: 12-2003 |
Spokenfor, welcome to the forum! We're so glad to have you here, and we look forward to "talking" with you and to hearing your story! Colleen | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 389 Registered: 6-2002 |
Stories!!! Stories!!! <<< hops and giggles excitedly >>> Welcome, Spokenfor  Here is a story for you. (. . . perhaps in exchange for one from you?) In the spirit of "Happy Holidays (holy days)," my wife (lifelong SDA) and I (never was SDA) were talking about Christmas colors. As several here may know, the colors of red and green have meant many things in and out of Christianity. My dear wife mused, "I have always wondered about what the colors red and green mean with respect to Christmas." I offered, "In the general Christian traditions, green, the color of new growth, is used to represent the birth of Christ. Red, the color of blood, represents the destiny of Jesus to be sacrificed at the cross for our sins." She retorted, "Why would anyone think about someone's death at the same time as their birth?" I demured, "Well, that is the symbolism." To me, nothing could be more appropriate. To her, it barely makes sense. Interesting, eh? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1864 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jerry, I was thinking about that very phenomenon this morning. How amazing that you should post about it! I've been moved and surprised, since coming to our church, that every Christmas, our pastor doesn't miss a chance to comment that the birth of the Baby is not the most important part of his life. Christmas is not significant at all if we don't also have the cross. He says words to that effect at the Christmas Eve services also, which usually have large numbers of unbelievers attending. Further, he always tells the story of the gospel and invites people to accept Jesus at the Christmas Eve services. Rarely in Adventism did I hear the cross or death of Jesus mentioned at Christmas, and I don't remember ever hearing people invited to accept Jesus at a Christmas service. In fact, I remember being offended by "Christians" spoiling Christmas by "forcing" it to be another gospel opportunity. Why couldn't Christmas be Christmas, with none of that messy stuff?! This phenomenon is one more indication to me of the reality of Adventism's true devaluing of Jesus and his finished work. Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 178 Registered: 7-2003 |
Jerry and Colleen, in a closely related vein, I have also come to realize how little significance the resurrection has for SDAs. A couple of years ago I was talking to an SDA friend who asked me why the Christian group Third Day calls themseleves "Third Day". I replied, "Because Jesus said He would rise on the third day and then He did." My friend said, "Well why would anyone want to call themselves that? I thought maybe it was something cool like the third day of creation or something." I was shocked. I retorted with something to the effect that the resurrection is central to Christianity. My friendssaid, "Well what does it matter if He was raised or not? Isn't it His death that is important. I mean, wouldn't we still be just as saved even if He hadn't been raised?" At the time I was absolutely floored by this response and unfortunately wasn't able to answer him. Since then I have put together a little Bible study on this topic and am convinced that the resurrection was an absolutely defining moment in Jesus' ministry, in God's plan for the salvation of His people, and in Christianity as a belief system. Without the resurrection of Christ we have no hope of resurrection and of what good is "salvation" if we have no future past this short life. Another way to look at this is to realize that our salvation have been secrued once for all through the finished work of Christ. And yet the full implications and benefits of the completed work of salvation are still being applied. We have been saved from the penalty of sin (justification), we are being saved from the power of sin (santification), and we will be saved from the presence of sin (glorification). The resurrection is an integral part of this "now and not yet" salvation. If Christ were not raised from the dead how could we know that we had been justified? Only the eternal God can justify us and if He is dead he is not eternal. How are we being sanctified if Christ did not rise from the dead to be in our midst and to send us the holy Spirit? What hope of resurrection have we if even Christ did not rise? If anyone would be interested in some of the scriptures I've come up with to support the centrality of the resurrection and it's role in our salvation and hope, let me know and I can post them here. I'm also curious if anyone else has seen this indifference to the ressurrection in Adventism. If so, to what do you attribute it? Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1866 Registered: 12-2003 |
Absolutely, Chris. I've been aware of this indifference for quite a while. I suspect that one of the reasons for the indifference is simply that Ellen didn't make as big a deal out of it as she did his death. Secondly, (and perhaps related to the first), it happened on Sunday--hence the Christian world's habit of meeting togetgher on Sunday--and to look too much at the resurrection might cause people to ask themselves why they were still clinging to the Sabbath if their salvation was finalized at the resurrection. Third, Paul says in Romans 5 that if we were justified by Christ's death, how much more shall we be saved by his life! The spirit that inspired Adventism has a vested interest in keeping people insecure and deceived. To stress the resurrection would be to stress our complete reconcilliation with God and would leave no room for 1844 and an incomplete justification. Jesus' life not only grants us eternal security, but he also lives now to intercede for us, and this intercession has been going on since his ascension. We are completely justified, and God sees us as justified because Jesus is interceding for us continually, covering us with his blood. Adventists have never really taken seriously the implications of the living, resurrected Jesus and the reality of the new birth. Their indifference is no accident; it is, I believe, a deliberate deception that is part of the core of Adventism. Jesus has a secondary role. | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2003 |
While an Adventist I always wondered why we never made a big deal about Easter - I knew the pagan associations and why we ignored them but I couldn't understand why we didn't at least make a big fuss over the ressurection during that time. One year our pastor held a 'Christian passover' service where he combined elements of the passover with Christian symbols. It was as close as anyone came to marking the event. I think your observations are very accurate Colleen - they ignore it because they aren't even aware of it's incredible significance. My 'story' of leaving Adventism is so similar to many others. In a nutshell - my husband and I were both third generation SDA's. Quite comfortable in our isolated Adventist world. We had started coming to a fairly clear understanding of the Gospel but it didn't fit with the IJ theory (which had never made sense to me anyway). As I tried to study it in more depth I realized that I couldn't sensibly reconcile scripture with the doctrine but didn't understand why God would reveal it to EGW when the Bible didn't state it as such. So then I started researching Ellen -- and you know the rest. House of cards. One by one it all tumbled down. Once that veil is removed it's amazing what God can teach you. And of course as you shed the doctrine the Gospel comes into clearer focus - before you know it the Bible starts to all fit together and make sense. We are currently in the process of leaving the Adventist church but haven't yet given formal 'notice'. For many months I've lived in fear of telling family - I felt like a criminal waiting to be found out. When I started praying for the Spirit of Jesus to replace the spirit of Adventism that had a hold on my mind I was suddenly freed of the terror that haunted me. So - now ready to make the transition through His strength! The incredible thing is that my husband and I were able to study ourselves out of Adventism at the same time. I praise God for His leading - He is truly awesome! I'm sure we will face some trying times before the transition is complete and am grateful that there are others on this forum who have gone through the experience - I know I will receive much encouragement here. | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Spokenfor, You are right about your story of leaving Adventism being similar to many others. It sounds very similar to mine. We have been attending a non-denominational church close by for the past month or so. We haven't given our sda church formal notice either. I have told a few friends at our SDA church that we are attending another church, but I don't think too many people actually know. We live so far from the SDA church anyway. I understand about the fear of telling family.( I'm third generation, and my husband is fourth generation.) I still have some of that fear. One of the reasons is that I don't want them to be worried that I am lost. My parents will be visiting for the holidays and we will probably go to the non denominational church for Christmas Eve service. I don't have the courage to suggest us going to Sunday Service, though! Colleen, Last Christmas Eve, we attended the Christmas Eve service at the church we are now visiting. Like your pastor, the pastor presented the Gospel at the end of the service and invited people to ask Jesus to come into their hearts. I don't remember hearing that at an Adventist service before. On our way home, my then 6 year old said, "when the man asked people to ask Jesus to come into their hearts, I asked Jesus to come into MY heart." Even after that, it still took us 10 months to finally have the courage to go to a Sunday Worship service at this church. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1867 Registered: 12-2003 |
Leigh, what a sweet story about your son! I just want to encourage you--and everyone in this position, actually--not to fear asking God to remove the spirit of Adventism and to replace it with His Spirit. I think many of us have felt frightened at the thought of admitting that a deceptive spirit might have any power over us, because we've heard just too many stories of demon possession and warnings against playing with the occult. The truth is that we are all born under a curse and are objects of God's wrath. (see Ephesians 2) Because of our intrinsic sin, Satan has a claim on all of us when we come into this world. Depending upon our families and cirucmstances, we all have varying types of temptations and spiritual claims upon us. It's part of being born into an evil world. Evil touches us without our overt permission. When we accept Jesus, we are choosing to belong to him rather than to evil. He makes it his responsibility to clean us up after we accept him, and he gradually reveals to us the areas in our lives where sin has strongholds on our souls. As believers, we are called to obey Jesus and to walk in the truth. That walk includes being willng to relinquish whatever Jesus reveals we need to give up. Persistent sin or deceit in our lives is not the product of the Holy Spirit; rather, those things are places in us where Satan can tempt us, harass us, and try to hold us in bondage. Praying for God to remove the spirit of Adventism, for example, is not admitting that one is "demon possessed". Rather, it is admitting the truth about the otherwise inexplicable attachment we have to Adventism or any other deception we persist in harboring. Remember Jesus' teaching in Matther 12:43-45 where he says that when an evil spirit comes out of a man, it looks for a place to rest. Not finding one, it decides to go back to the house it left. When it arrives and finds the house unoccupied, swept clean, and in order, it goes and takes seven more spirits with it, "more wicked than itself, and they live there." The end of that man, the passage says, is worse than at the first. My point is this: when we become aware of being bound to some sin, habit, or loyalty that we know is wrong but cannot shake, we can be confident in asking God to replace the spirit holding us in bondage with His Holy Spirit. God is faithful; he will not trick us and send a counterfeit instead of Himself. He will ask us to be obedient to his leading of us, but he will also supply his power and courage to do the hard jobs of disentangling from our enslavements. When we walk away from our old attachments, whether those are Adventism or alcoholism or rage or greed--whatever they are--without acknowleging their spiritual component, they still have a hold on us. It's only when we surrender them to Jesus and aks Him to fill those places in our hearts that we begin to experience freedom and victory. I've come to see that the realities of evil and of God's faithful love and power are not frightening or confusing. Paul said our fight was not with flesh and blood but with powers and authorities and rulers of the air. Jesus has defeated those foes; he is merely asking us, in an ongoing way, to surrender our hearts and secrets and habits to him as he makes it clear that we need to surrender them. The freedom and joy that result from surrendering the strongholds in our lives--such as our spiritual ties to Adventism--are amazing. God is completely faithful. Perfect love, he says, casts out fear. (1 John 4:18) Jesus is that perfect love, and Satan is the author of fear. When we are born again, God becomes our Father, and we can approach him confidently, certain of his healing power in our hearts and lives. I am so thankful to God for loving me and for teaching me and revealing himself to me! I pray for all of us to experience the freeing, healing reality of Jesus inhabiting the places of our hearts where we have previously had bondage and pain. Colleen | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks Colleen, for your encouraging words. I will be praying that God will release me from this spirit of fear. I like that text. " Perfect love, casts out fear." (1 John 4:18) It was actually my daughter who asked Jesus into her heart last Christmas Eve. We have 2 girls. Both of them have enjoyed visiting the new church. My older daughter who is 10, has said that, "We don't just read the memory verse and then do other things, we STUDY THE BIBLE during sunday school." The other day I heard my younger daughter, who is now seven, singing, "Jesus, thank you for the cross, for the blood that sets us free....." I have a theological question to ask. A few weeks my youngest child told me what they were discussing in Sunday school . She said that the teacher said that when Jesus was in the tomb, he was fighting Satan. Iím not familiar with this doctrine. Now there may have been some misunderstanding on her part, but Iím just curious. Is anybody familiar with this doctrine? Because of what I have learned in the past year, all of my former sda beliefs are up for scrutiny and I want to base any change only on scripture. thanks | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2003 |
Leigh, although I can't be sure that this is what was presented to your daughter, there is such a doctrine promulgated by "Word-of-Faith" teachers. One well known proponent of this doctrine is Joyce Meyers. The doctrine basically states that Jesus' atonement was not complete upon the cross, but that He first had to go to Hell and suffer at the hands of the Devil and his demons. During this time Christ was reborn in Hell and fought with Satan for control of the keys to death. Winning the fight He emerged victorious from the grave on resurrection Sunday. To be sure, many of the early church fathers believed that Jesus was in Sheol/Hades during the 3 days he was in the grave and that He declared victory to the unrighteous and set the righteous free leading them into the presence of His father. This view that was common among some of the early church fathers is based upon a particular interpretation of Eph. 4 and I Peter 3. Although these passages are not often exegeted this way by modern evangelicals, there is nothing intrinsically wrong or unorthodox with the belief as long as it is affirmed that Jesus work was finished upon the cross, that the atonement was complete upon the cross. But the version taught by the word-of-faith teachers where Jesus suffers in Hell is completely without Biblical warrant. I would personally consider the idea of an incomplete atonement and further suffering in Hell to be a heretical teaching. Chris | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 43 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks Chris, I went to the church's website and reread the statement of faith and didn't see what was presented in Sunday school. It may have been the teacher's own interpretation. Here is what their statement of faith says; "He (Jesus) is the only Savior for the sins of the world, having lived a sinless life in perfect obedience to the Law of God, and having died a substitutionary death on the cross for all mankind. Through His sinless life He met the righteous requirements of the Law in our behalf. Through His atoning death He paid the penalty for our sin, revealing and upholding at the same time both divine love and divine justice. Having provided atonement for sin, the third day He rose bodily from the grave, victorious over death and the powers of darkness, and for a period of forty days appeared to over five hundred witnesses, providing many convincing proofs of His resurrection. He ascended into heaven and was seated at God's right hand, from where He intercedes for His people and rules as Lord over all. He is the Head of His Body the Church and is to be loved, worshipped, served, and obeyed by all." | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 136 Registered: 7-2003 |
There is such incredible depth in this thread since I read it yesterday afternoon, I can hardly believe how God has spoken to me in the simliarity of our encounters and conversations. Chris, I have had the exact same, astounding conversation with B. We were talking about Easter and he was defending why he doesn't celebrate the resurrection and said that ultimately, it was Christ's death that paid the penalty for our sins, not the resurrection. Utterly amazed (but also unequipped), I went to scripture and probably found the same as you. The verse that just struck me was the one that says that if Christ had not raised then we are still in our sins....1 Cor 15:17 HOW can he claim to study the Bible more than any other church and not know that? He did the same thing with the name of Christ. He said it was not important to know Christ's name, just that there is a God out there who can save you somehow. I looked up all the verses that talked about believing "in the name of the Lord" and again was amazed he found knowing Christ's name so unnecessary. A new comment he has been making is that he doesn't understand why "they" put just Christ's words are in red and not God's as well. I kindof thought it was ALL the word of God myself. It does make me wonder what angle he's going to pull next.... In reference to presenting the gospel, and I don't remember the context of the conversation, but he made the remark that hearing me talk gave him the impression that I thought the gospel was "all" someone needed to be taught. He tried to tell me that the gospel was just the beginning (milk) and that there were more important things to learn after learning the gospel. He thought it was unnecessary to present the gospel at every church service (as I said ours did). (picture me with my mouth open in utter amazement) One of the things I loved about our church's Christmas production this year was it's unique way to present the Christmas story. It was not your normal drama in Biblical costumes (which always ended with a resurrection, not a manger). It was sortof an improv type thing. And the ending scene was the acknowledgement that the end of Christmas was not the end of the story. There was a trial and a cross, a death and a resurrection. And how the story ended for us individually was up to us individually and what we chose to do with the baby of Christmas. It was SOOOO powerful and such a non-traditional way of presenting the story...you didn' t know where they were going to go next. The peculiar thing to me is that i typically like background noise, so I almost always turn the tv or radio on when I get home. B always complains that I have the tv on but never watch it EXCEPT that night. (I was surprised he would go, but he did.) I was so moved in Spirit that I didn't want anything to break the Spirit, when I noticed B turned the tv on. He never turns it on because he likes the silence, so it made me wonder what he was thinking. Finally, to Colleen's wonderful remarks about Christ. For so long I have pondered how to resolve the relationship with B and part of it was fear that he would try to take our son. A couple of months ago, the Lord just made it clear (and I presume because he knows B's heart) that I was in an unequally yoked situation (dahhh, I know) and it was time to move on. I told B, but he ignored me. I have noticed, however, that since I told him that, there has not been more than a few days pass that I don't hear someone on the radio or tv, church sermon, etc. talking about being equally yoked. One morning this week, I woke up to the "verse of the day" on the radio...it was the one in Amos asking how 2 can walk together except they be agreed. I thought that God has moved from whispering in my ear to blasting it through the airwaves. So, I have set a time to talk to B about our previous conversation and force him to hear me this time ... There was a sense of fear at first, but as mentioned above, God is not a spirit of fear. He is power and love and sound mind. If I am following his leading, what do I really have to fear? These have been some great posts this last day. They are so relevant to where I am and so affirming of the leading I've had the last few weeks particularly. It is continually amazing to watch God at work in his people to minister to me in my current circumstances through their experiences and circumstances. Doesn't it just give you goosebumps?? Awesome God.... So, thanks for sharing your stories. You just don't know how God uses them in the lives of those who read them. I think I'll read them again.... | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2003 |
What you say about God using our stories to help each other is so true Melissa - I have been blessed countless times by the postings here, before I even joined the forum. In fact it was an old thread between Colleen and some others here that made we aware of that spirit of bondage. I believe God lead me to that thread to show me how to be released from the fear I was living under. Leigh I know how you are feeling. I was so terrified of telling my family and hurting them and having them fear for my salvation and of leaving my Adventist church family here who I dearly love and how that might traumatize my children and ALL of those things tied to leaving Adventism, that at one point I became immobilized and felt physically ill. I couldn't function at all. I called my brother sobbing and telling him how I thought I was going crazy and I couldn't live like this anymore but at the same time couldn't bear the thought of telling my father. It was one of the darkest hours of my life - there was literally a heavy presence of evil and I knew that Jesus presence brings light and joy so it was coming from somewhere else. I thought it was just that my mind was weak I had brought it on myself. Jesus held on to me and used Colleen and this forum to let me know that it was the Devil who was playing with my mind. Colleen encouraged me to pray for the spirit of Jesus to replace that spirit of Adventism. Within HOURS that prayer was answered and the darkness left me. I am so in awe of the whole experience. I had been unwilling to admit that there was anything wrong in Adventism other than doctinal error but I am now convinced that there is another presence that has a claim on it. We too have been attending a non-denominational church for about a month as well. Last Saturday we went to the Adventist church for the last time - my husband had promised to play piano for the Christmas program. It was hard to be there but we survived it and when we left we knew it was the last time. I have felt so sad for my boys because that has been their church family for years and we are all attached to people there. I hated to take that from them but I know that Lord will replace those relationships with new ones. The new church we are attending has a wonderful kids program for my younger son and he always is asking when are we going again?? I am asking the Lord to lead me in when and how to tell my parents - I know that each situation is different and He knows exactly the best way to handle it. I've also been praying that the spirit of Adventism will be replaced in my father as well - I don't know if intercessory prayer is effective if the person you're praying for doesn't want to be changed - but the last time I spoke with my father we had an amazingly open minded conversation about the church so I believe the Lord is working on his heart. I will keep you and your parents in my prayers Leigh. Colleen - thank you always for sharing your keen spiritual insight - God is using you powerfully. | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi Chris - I forgot to ask if you would mind posting your list of scripture pertaining to the ressurection and salvation - I am very interested in studying them. Thanks! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1868 Registered: 12-2003 |
Spokenfor--One of my greatest fears when we left was what effect it would have on our boys. I'll never forget the night we knelt and Richard prayed for God to replace the spirit of Adventism in us with His Spirit. Before he prayed, he asked both boys (they were 11 and 15 at the time--wow! it's been 5 years!!...) how they felt about leaving the Adventist church. Both of them said they were really happy to be leaving. Their experiences in our current church have been some of the best parts of their teen years. God truly does restore the years the locusts ate, and he provides what our kids need in ways we cannot foresee. They have NEVER regretted leaving. Richard and I were the ones with the doubts and regrets--and God mercifully removed them when we prayed for Him to take the place of the church. One ironic note I remember realizing during that time--the Adventist church actually was the world God was asking me to leave in order to take my place in His kingdom. Chris, thanks for sharing that info above re: the Word of Faith interpretation of Jesus in hell. I'd never heard that before. It really is heretical I've heard the intrepretation of 1 Peter 3 you mentioned above--in many ways, it does make sense. It is an awesome thought that Jesus might have actually gone and declared his victory over evil during that time of his death. Won't it be fun someday to learn the realities of some of these mysteries?! Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2000 |
A hearty FAF welcome,Spokenfor! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 180 Registered: 7-2003 |
Spokenfor, Here are a few texts that I believe highlight how central the resurrection of Jesus Christ is to our faith, hope and even salvation. Others could probably be cited, but these give a good overview. Jesus claimed to be the very personification of life and resurrection. Apart from His life and resurrection we would have neither. Jesus said to her, ``I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never, die. Do you believe this?'' John 11:25-26 (NASB) The resurrection is central to the proclamation of the Gospel message. Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.'' Acts 26:23 (NASB) It is the resurrection that testifies to the fact that Jesus was more than just a good moral teacher, He is the eternal Son of God. Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, Romans 1:1-4 (NASB) In some way, even our justification is tied to the resurrection. Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification. Romans 4:23-25 (NASB) Several versus show that the new life we now live in the spirit is only possible because our life is rooted in a risen savior. These versus also hint at not only new spiritual life now, but also new life beyond the grave. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:4-5 (NASB) But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:11 (NASB) Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. 1 Cor 6:14 (NASB) The theme of justification is again seen. Weíre told that thanks to the resurrection, Christ is able to always be our heavenly intercessor. Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Romans 8:33-34 (NASB) Saving faith includes a belief in the resurrection of Jesus. If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:9-10 (NASB) In fact, without the resurrection, our faith is worthless! Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. 1 Cor 15:12-19 (NASB) Without the resurrection, our life is hopeless! If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE. 1 Cor 15:32 (NASB) Fortunately, we can have not only hope, but can also experience Christís power and strength because of His resurrection. Knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you. 2 Cor 4:14 (NASB) I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, Eph 1:18-20 (NASB) More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Phil 3:8-11 (NASB) Jesusí death and resurrection form the pattern by which we die to our old selves and experience rebirth in the Spirit. This amazing new birth is symbolized in baptism. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, Col 2:9-13 (NASB) Perhaps the first epistle of Peter is the strongest of all in demonstrating the role of the resurrection to our salvation. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:3-5 (NASB) Corresponding to that, baptism now saves youónot the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscienceóthrough the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21 (NASB) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1869 Registered: 12-2003 |
Chris, what a great collection of texts! Thank you for sharing them! Colleen | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thank you for taking the time to post those Chris - Reading all those texts together makes the importance of the ressurection really stand out. It also makes me aware of how little I ever heard about it all my years in Adventism - focus was always on His death, rather unbalanced. | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2003 |
Colleen, it's encouraging to me to hear about your sons and that they were ok with leaving and have never regretted doing so. I was so worried at first about mine being hurt by the loss of this church family. I probably assumed they had stronger attachments there than they actually did. So far their attitude has been a happy suprise - neither have any interest in going back and seem quite content to move forward. It is probably far easier for them than it has been for me! |
