| Author | Message | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2003 |
Nelson isn't the right last name... Maybe he's not the main pastor? Last name is Hayward, can't remember the first...Bruce maybe?? I just know he keeps saying his uncle is the pastor of one of the largest SDA churches (is it over 1,000??... seems he's said that) and lives in BS, Michigan. I've been there once...felt like I was in the heart of Ellen-country... No disrespect intended. Is that where Andrews is? Sorry for the fogginess.... | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 146 Registered: 7-2003 |
Oh, and Doug, it did make me crazy. And that's when I found this forum ... thanks to God, I'm sure! My sanity has returned, but I still ask the questions when they poke their heads out of their hole. Fortunately, when God frees you from something, he does it completely. Though I asked the questions, I have complete peace with God and a contentment I cannot describe, regardless of the confusion in some of my questions. It is quite an awesome thing to be under the protection of the Almighty! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 195 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes, Andrews is in BS, MI. I graduated from there. PMC is the only church in the area of that size. I'm not familiar with Hayward, but you're probably right, I'm sure they must have several associate pastors. Chrs | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 476 Registered: 11-2002 |
Debbie, thanks for the texts. I copied them down. About the text of the Sabbath being made for man and not man for the Sabbath, I am told by the SDA loved ones that this text proves folks are to worship on the seventh day as the Sabbath is made for the people-the people to worship on. And, now a side note on this very topic. Last Sunday afternoon I met with a good friend and her husband and child for lunch at a local restruant. Her husband asked me if my mom attends church with me. I told him, "no, she won't do that" and then of course came the next logical question, him asking me how come. I told him my mom is SDA and she won't go to church on Sundays. His reply was something like this, "Yeah, I used to work with a SDA man and over the years I've known SDA's and it never made any sense to me that they refuse to worship on Sunday. I'm Lutheran and I love to praise and worship my Saviour and I attend worship services every opportunity I can. When I read my Bible it says we are to pray without ceasing and we are to be ever joyful in the Lord". And, he went on like that for awhile finilly shaking his head in bewilderment that the SDA's he's known refuse to worship on Sundays. Then the wife asked if the SDA's have worship at their retrets and camps on Sundays and I told her they do and then of course, they decided it is really strange that it is o.k. for a SDA to worship on Sundays with other SDA's but not with non-SDA Christians. I finilly told them it never made any sense to me either but that is just how it is and in my opinion that "hold" on the SDA faithful to stick only within their own group leads to very cult-like behavior and exclusiveness and then we got onto some other discussions. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 157 Registered: 7-2003 |
B claims that cult-like behavior (as I call it too) is actually just like the church in Acts. ...I think he's read a different Acts than me.... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2003 |
Uh--yes. We're studying Acts in women's Bible study right now, and I've never seen so clearly how God orchestrated the gospel going first to the Jews (Acts 2), then to the Samaritans, (Acts 8,) and finally to the Gentiles (Acts 10). Peter struggled with God's order not to call unclean what God had called clean; three times he remonstrated with God before God pulled that famous creature-filled sheet back up to heaven. Immediately he found the men from Cornelius asking him to go to Cornelius' house. Immediately upon arriving, Peter told Cornelius and his assembled guests that if was against the Jewish law for him to be in that house or to eat with them, but God had told him not to call "any man impure or unclean." (Acts 10:28) Throughout the early days of the church, God was breaking down barriers, and the apostles kept fighting strong fronts of Judaizers who tried to impose Jewish law on new converts. No, the church in Acts is certainly not cultic--unless you call believing in Jesus as the only means of salvation and grace cultic! Praise God for his sovereign acts of forming the church! Colleen | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2001 |
In Acts is says that the world was turned upside down. That is a major statement. SDA's and many lukewarm christians are so used to the way things have always been and they refuse to be shaken up. Some really weird stuff happened in Acts and the Pharisee types called the people drunk and went on with their protocol. While the child-like nobodies believed and were changed. I don't think anything has changed today. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 258 Registered: 1-2003 |
I am facinated by the vision God gave Peter...to me the reason God gave clean and unclean meats in the first place was to "shadow" his plan of redemption for the Gentiles. He was showing how he made the unclean- clean...now he is telling Peter (after Christ broke the barrier) that he is not to call anything unclean that He has made clean. Just like the Sabbath was a shadow...so were the clean and unclean meats a shadow of what Christ would do... And I do believe the vision was literal as well...God cannot lie...so when He gives Peter permission to eat those animals...he means they are clean now and go ahead! SDA will argue that until they turn blue! But if God told Peter (even in allegory) that he made the "unclean", clean- he can eat them...I believe him! Really cool! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2003 |
Of you formers who were vegetarians, did coming out change your eating habits? | ||
| Bmorgan Registered user Username: Bmorgan Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2000 |
YeeeeeeeeeeeP!!! Just the thought of adventism and I would find the biggest of meat to eat. Eggs, bacon AND CHEESE ARE SOME OF MY FAVORITE foods now. My husband, children and I were all vegans. Go figure! | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2000 |
Melissa, Our eating habits only slightly changed to include more foods; however, we still do not prepare or serve meat in our home. We really don't even know how to prepare meat dishes. We eat some chicken and fish in restaurants. Interestingly, our Sunday School teacher is now largely vegetarian due to health concerns. He recently told me, "Just because the Bible says we CAN eat meat doesn't mean that we should." We definitely have a psychological block about eating certain meat entrees. Truly, this is another freedom that Adventism takes away from their members. Unfortunately, some scars of Adventism will always remain to complicate our lives. In Christ, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 443 Registered: 3-2001 |
I'd echo what Dennis said. While I am not a vegetarian, I am not a big meat eater. My habits have not changed that much. Just because it is permissible to eat a pepperoni pizza does not mean that it is expedient. The freedom that I experience is that I do not scrutinize dishes at an office potluck (for example) to see if it contains verboten food, but I do not go out of my way to indulge myself either. It could bea psychological block, but not one that I feel the need to concern myself with. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 214 Registered: 7-2000 |
I've always been an unrepentant carnivore. I did have lots of fun sharing meat recipes, food and cooking techniques with Richard and Colleen!  Bill | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2003 |
My SDA ex never had meat in the house, but if there was filet mignon on the menu at the restaurant, that's what she ordered. When she was pregnant, it was down to Uno's for burgers several times a week! There's a special prohibition against pork, right? I probably listened to her quiz the waiter a hundred times: Is the soup meat based? Which meat? There's no bacon, right? No pork? She undertook to pass this attitude onto our son when he was very young. When I protested, she said "It's a cultural thing. You wouldn't want him to eat dog, would you?" I replied "If we lived in Viet Nam where dog was an ordinary part of the diet, I wouldn't discourage it. He needs to fit into the world. You don't do our son a favor, by giving him your biases. He'll have to ask about meat and bacon his whole life too." She wasn't remotely convinced, of course. Her mother, an SDA convert (you know how adamant they are) convinced him to become a vegetarian at age 5. He's been vegetarian for five years, now, entirely self-regulating. I like that he has the force of character to do that. And I can't argue against vegetarianism, either; if you eat some dairy and eggs to get the b12, it's great for health, I think. I'm expecting him to rebel at age 16 by becoming a carnivore (that's the age I started refusing to eat my mother's meat dishes). Have any of you observed that tendency among SDAs? Meat-eating as a form of teenage rebellion? Have you seen any teenage rebellion? Somehow I'm sensing that it isn't allowed in SDA households. - Hoytster | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 259 Registered: 1-2003 |
Meat eating was my husband's first rebellion and he said he had to force himself to eat it and almost threw up. Now he is a total carnivore...he would try stuff I wouldn't. I think SDAism has ruined me for being vegetarian. There is a part of me that would like to be but I associate it with them so much I cannot. I think I also use meat eating to prove my freedom in Christ...I eat pork...takes some getting used to...but I like it. I have bad associations with vegetarianism thanks to SDA. That kind of sucks because part of me would like to be one just because I don't think it is necessary to kill an animal for food when there is good food everywhere...know what I mean? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yup, Loneviking, your barbequed hamburgers are great! My eating habits have changed. My family did eat "clean" meat occasionally--usually only when we visited my European grandparents or on the rare occasion when family members gathered on Thanksgiving and Mom made turkey. My mom did like tuna, though, and we occasionally had that. In spite of the fact that I was never taught that meat eating was wrong (unless it was unclean meat), I did learn in school that those who ate meat would not be translated when Jesus came if they were still alive, so I struggled with guilt over and fascination with meat eating for years. I finally resolved the issue during my SDA days by thinking meat was generally bad for my health, so I largely avoided it although I was always tempted by chicken and turkey. I did not cook it at home. After leaving Adventism, I definitely felt a new freedom to eat meat, and I really was able to see all meat as equally allowed. The problem was that the deep psychological taboos have been hard to get past. I gradually began eating chicken when I ate out, at first feeling guilty for "health" reasons, and gradually realizing that chicken was probably one of the least of my health risks! (Sweets and lack of sleep are probably much higher on my list of risks!) I have been able to eat ham because it seems like regular meat in texture and appearance, and I like it. I can't, though, manage sea food except to sample it in tiny doses. I realize my aversion to sea food is psychological. I don't remotely think it's forbidden, but I never got used to it, and the taste just doesn't "grab" me. As for shrimp, I can't shake the sense I'm eating grubs! Richard, on the other hand, grew up strictly vegetarian and learned that all meat was non-food, just as dirt or excrement was non-food. That sort of programming is extremely hard to overcome. He has no feelings of meat being wrong, but he has no taste for it. On the (very few) occasions he has eaten it, he hasn't disliked it, but the thought of eating it disturbs him much like shrimp disturbs me. The interesting thing, though, is that Richard grills chicken at home sometimes when we're having guests who eat meat, and he also fixed the turkey last Thanksgiving and carved it as well. For him, even touching meat was verboten, so these are huge steps! Interestingly, we have one son who is unabashedly carnivorous (his early years were strictly vegetarian), and one who, like Richard, just can't go there. Go figure! It's true that our early imprinting really does make a huge difference in our ability or inability to do certain things--even after we unlearn the original teaching. That emotional/psychological block is HUGE! Praise God for setting us free--and for continuing to work in us! Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 161 Registered: 7-2003 |
That is fascinating. I know when B went through a period of "rebellion" he claims he ate some meats, but once he got "closer to God" again, he returned to vegetarianism. I have been reading a newspaper that I used to work for. It is a natural-farming paper promoting organics, etc., but does not promote vegetarianism. They had an article about the meat of organically raised animals and many of the properties B claims are "in" meat which are damaging, they claim are not present in animals fed their natural diets, such as grass fed cattle. etc. They actually make some of the same claims that I hear about soy-things from the mainstream groups. (the not-so-mainstream groups say the same negative things about soy as vegetarian groups say about meat... who knows what the real truth is??) Anyway, it seemed if it truly was a health issue, and "they" say what they say about organic meat, why wouldn't that be the answer? It's funny, since I have no strong feelings one way or another, I've read articles that completely contradict each other...this one causes cancer, that one doesn't, that one causes cancer, this one doesn't. The only thing I can consistently find is that vegetarians need B12 in one form or another, which is not available in plant diets. That would seem to vote against God intending man to only eat fruits, vegetables and grains. But I realize it is a cultural aspect of adventism. I just didn't know how deep. What I do know is what a pain it is to take B to my family functions where food is served. There is always something in almost everything that he won't eat. So sometimes he just eats mashed potatoes and that's it. Then my family feels bad because they don' t know how to fix things he'll eat. It just seems we spend an inordinate amount of time "worrying" about what to eat and if B will eat it. It is a constant issue since most social gatherings have some sort of food. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 260 Registered: 1-2003 |
I guess it has taken the Holy Spirit to knock me over the head to realize the kingdom of God is not about eating and drinking...and it isn't a salvational issue as I was taught. Whatever we eat is consecrated by prayer...so everything is equalized...now, cholesterol is another matter...is it stepping out in faith not to worry about it or should I control my cholesterol with diet? My husband says a vegetarian diet would take care of it. It's genetic for me...my whole family has high cholesterol. But what do I gain if I attempt to lengthen my life? I will not die one minute before God has ordained... Just my thoughts. We eat by faith! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 162 Registered: 7-2003 |
My thoughts as well. I tell B those couple of years he supposedly gains on me he gives up reading food labels and studies to see if something is healthy enough to eat. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but he spends more time reading food labels and such than he does scripture. There's something backwards about that. But I'm not afraid to die either...to me, it is gain.... | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 261 Registered: 1-2003 |
I saw in the latest Adventist Review that they are promoting a few select SDA that have lived to over 100+ years. They did a story on one such lady and are soliciting for anyone above 90 years old to participate in the benefits of SDAism study. What they fail to realize is there are many non-SDA's who live to a hundred...who is studying them? They are attemping to use "long life" to attract people to their denomination. |
