| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I'm going to post a couple of "Amazing Facts" quotes as promised before we leave for church. I may do more later, but these are just--well, Amazing! The following are quoted from the Bible study called "You wouldn't Do This..." featuring a man pouring water into his gas tank. This study was copyrighted in 1994, but it is currently is use. Thanks to Susan 2 for forwarding this and some others to me. Question 6: "But I like pork. Will God destroy me if I eat it?" This question is followed by this quote: "For, behold, the Lord will come with fire...and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. They that sanctify themsleves, and purify themselves...eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord." Isaiah 66:15-17 Answer: This may be shocking, but it is true and must be tolod. The Bible postiively states that all who eat "swine's flesh," the "mouse," and other unclean things that are an "abomination" will be destroyed with fire at the coming of the Lord. When God says to leave something alone and not eat it, we shoulod by all means obey Him. After all, the mere eating of a piece of forbidden fruit by Adam and Eve, a sinless couple, brought sin and death to thijs world in the first place. Can anyone say it doesn't matter, when God soclearly shows it does? God says men will be destroyed b3ecause they "chose that in which I delighted not." Isaiah 66:4. Question 7. "But didn't this law of clean and unclean animals originate at Sinai? Wasn't it for the Jews only, and didn't it end at the cross?" "And the Lord said unto Noah,...Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens...and of beasts that are not clean by two." (Note that they do not--nor do they later in the study--quote Genesis 9:3 where God tells Noah after the flood, "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.") Answer: "No, indeed! The Bible has ample evidence that there were clean and unclean animals from the very dawn of Creation...The death of Christ had no altering effect whatever on these health laws, since the Bible says that all who break them will be desteroyed when Jesus returnes (Isaiah 66:15-1-7). The Jew's stomach and digestive system in no way differs from that of a Gentile. These health laws are for all people for all time." The study continues through "proof" that the Bible forbids the use of alcoholic beverages and tobacco and discusses moderation in eating. Under question 11, "What solemn reminder is given to those who ignore God's rules?" are the following statements: "Those who break God's rules regarding the care of the body machine will reap broken bodies and burned-o9ut lives, just as one who abuses his automobile will have serious care trouble.And those who continue to break God's laws of health will ultimately be destroyed by the Lord (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)God's health laws are not arbitrrary. They are natural, established laws of the universel, like the law of gravity. Ignoring these laws always brings certain disastrous results. The bible says, 'The curse causeless shall not come.' Proverbss 26:2. Trouble comes when we ignore the laws of health." Question 12: "What fearful, shocking truth about health involves our children and grandchildren?" "Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with they chikldren after thee." Deuteronomy 12:25. "I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto th third and fourth generation of them that hate me." Exodus 20:5. Answer: "God makes it very plain that children and grandchildren (to the fourth generation) pay for the folly of parents who ignore God's health reules. The children and grandchildren inherit weakened, sickly bodies when mother and father defy God's rules for their lives. Is that what you want for your dear children and grandchildren?" Well, I'm off to church where I will hear a wonderful sermon from Romans, with all the quotes IN CONTEXT. The entire focus of the sermon will be what the Bible actually says and the imapct of the gospel on our lives. I'm so thankful for Jesus and the Holy Spirit who leads us relentlessly into truth! Colleen | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
If anyone would like a scripturally based study on unclean foods after reading the Amazing Facts quotes above, I would offer an article I wrote for Proclamation! called, "Are Some Foods Unclean?" You can find it in PDF format here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/7-3-02%20Unclean%20foods.pdf Chris | ||
| Madelia (Madelia) |
Thanks Colleen for sharing that. When you described the cover, I do remember seeing that here around the house somewhere. I wish I could just rent a dumpster and pitch every bit of SDA literature that is in my house!! And Chris, thank for sharing that article. I'm sure I've read it before, but am going to read it again. The prophecy seminar that my husband is conducting is formatted the same way as Amazing Facts. Last night guess what the topic was? The Sabbath, of course. The lesson is entitled Bricks without Straws. One of the women was saying how she appreciates having a day to not cook and do dishes. Yet, earlier that day I'd seen her at a dinner at her house scurrying around heating up food in the microwave and trying to find enough dishes and silverware. It looked like work to me! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Uh--exactly, Madelia! I used to ponder those descrepancies as I watched my mom bustle around the kitchen (with my sister and me acting as the equally bustling conscripted help) to feed a crowd using the best china, glassware, and silver plate! We were one of the last families to get a dishwasher, too--that china and silver and glassware had to be washed, and my mom didn't like to have messes waiting for her after sundown. Doing the Sabbath dishes became part of the afternoon entertainment for the ladies while the men had interesting discussion about work, politics, and the church in the living room. While I loved having that company over, I never did resolve the issues of Sabbath-keeping they raised. Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
and when we got the dishwasher it was fine to run it but heaven forbid you run the clothes washer! Now that was real work! These are the arguements my mom and I had while I was growing up. And you could read a magazine on Sabbath but not watch TV. and wade but not swim and wear earrings on your collar but not your ears, diamonds on your watch but not your finger..la da la da dee dumm, I mean dumb. It is funny now isn't it? | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I am not sure if the book I have in front of me is an Annoying Fiction book or not but I got it from the local SDA minister. The title of the book is: Revelation Speeks, Messages of Hope for a World in Termoil, by, Mark Finely, Gay Gallimore and Don Grey. Page 46, "Probation is closed. No longer is there a mediater, or advocate, to make atonement for mans sins-every case is settled! So you see, the sanctury service instituted in the wilderness was actually a gigantic telescope by which the peoples before Calvery could gaze across the centuries to the cross and to the final cleansing of the heavenly sanctury and Christ's second coming. We have salvation and forgiveness, just as did the ancient Hebrews. We must take the same steps: We must come to Jesus, our High Priest, confess our sins, and claim forgiveness through the shed blood of Jesus, the True Sacrafice". Collee, I will mail this book to you in another month. When I get back from the trip I plan to go on. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 479 Registered: 11-2002 |
About food-I have a SDA relative who insists that EGW fortold the mad-cow thing. She is aware that the conference denies that EGW fortold the mad-cow thing but says the conference for some reason isn't admitting just how truly prophetic EGW really was. Go figure. | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 400 Registered: 6-2002 |
Sure. . . . the world trade center, and the Union losing the Civil War, and . . . and . . . You name it, she probably predicted it. AND, no doubt, the Jesuits made the first cow mad. <<sigh>> | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2001 |
Mom asked me about the mad cow stuff and I told her whatever is received with thanksgiving is good enough for me! I think it is a pestilence of the beasts of the field and I don't think it is for the church. I pray over it and rebuke mad cow disease and I'm not worrying about it. Same with the west nile virus, we got bitten plenty last year and I kept praying for protection and we are all healthy. She thinks I'm nuts, I don't care, I'm not trusting in the FDA, my trust is in God who promised to protect me. Does anyone know about any changes the conference is making? My sort-of-SDA cousin asked me if I knew about all of the changes and then had to go, hmmm still hasn't gotten back to me about what they are. | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 162 Registered: 5-2002 |
The more they change, the more they stay the same... This is not your father's Seventh-day Adventism... New & Improved Adventism... Come see the softer side of SDA's... Look, they can change the semantics of their explanations all they want, but as long as there remains an Investigative Judgement, an historic inspired "messenger" (not a prophet), Sabbatarianism, and soul-sleep, it's still the same old can of beans. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss... won't get fooled again..." | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 402 Registered: 6-2002 |
Re: all the changes . . . In terms of "We are just good ol' evangelical Christians like everyone else . . . " Freeatlast has it right. I heard something that I would like to see if anyone can confirm. I was told that "many" pastors are being quickly laid off due to financial difficulties relating to conference handling of Church Properties. I know that one pastor was unexpectedly "retired" but that may have been due to poor health. Could be just an unfounded rumor. My source could be "in the know" or perhaps got the information second hand. I don't know what to make of it. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jerry, that's intresting. I haven't heard that report, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. I'd love to hear a confirmation about it. I have heard that there is a growing movement in Adventism, even among the clergy, of studying, questioning, and even considering leaving. Many people, though, are fearful of being known. The church, though, cannot possibly be unaware of the growing wave of searching and questioning going on. I know that I feel compelled to pray that the truth of Adventism will be known, and that those who want truth will find it. Colleen | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2001 |
I read an article by Tom Norris, don't know who he is but it said he is an Adventist and he was talking about the church had better get a plan to prevent the mass exodus or it will fail. He talked about the Damascus Road Community Church issue a lot. I hadn't heard about it but apparently it split from the conference and became a non-denominational church and agreed to give 40% of tithes to the conference to keep the building or something like that. Not sure where that article was but I could search for it if anyone is interested. My cousin still hasn't replied. ?? She is the one who brought it up. I do know that they all wear jewelry now and the pastor, at least at my mom's church and my cousin's say it is up to the individual. I have told you about my cousin's church, speaking in tongues, charismatic, amazing healings, it is interesting to see what goes on there, they expect to be thrown out of the conference but it is a large church and I don't really think the conference can afford it. They put up with all of that from the island churches I hear. Does anyone else think that God is really pulling together a non-denominational body? I see it everywhere. Even the Baptist churches around here are dropping the name Baptist, we have The People's Church, The First Family Church, the Thompson Station church--all Baptist. I think He is calling us out to just be His. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2003 |
The Damascus Road Community Church split from the denomination in 1997, I think it was. It happened during the time we were working for Adventist Today. At first they tried to negotiate with the conference, but they finally left the buildings and began meeting in the local high school until they got their own property. They were a community Christian church meeting on Saturday for a year or two, (I forget the exat amount of time) but they finally moved their services to Sunday. It is not in any sense Seventh-day Adventist. Grace Place in Berthoud, Colorado has a similar story. In fact, Clay Peck, senior pastor of Grace Place, used to be on staff at the Damascus Road church under Richard Fredericks before they split from the conference. I do think God is calling people who are willing to identify themselves only with him. Actually, I think his body already is "nondenominational" in the sense that his people are sprinkled throughout Christendom in all types of Christian churches. I do think that increasingly Christ's body will identify themselves as "Christians" or "Christ-followers" instead of by denominational titles regardless of the names of the churches where they worship. I am so grateful for Jesus and for the fact that he is real and present with us, and he reveals himself to us! Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 267 Registered: 1-2003 |
God cannot be contained in an "...ism"! Praise God! | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2000 |
Sabra, Many denominational churches are now not using their official, traditional name "over the door" in some communites. For example, I am a member of an Evangelical Free Church here in Lincoln, Nebraska. Our Board of Elders has also been considering a name change for our church without severing ties with the denomination. Several other Evangelical Free churches have already done so without severing ties with the denomination. In our case, the words "Free" and "Evangelical" are confusing to many unchurched seekers. Indeed, we are not "free" to believe and to do anything we please in our church. We are actually very conservative in our theology. The name stems from the Free Church movement that originated in Scandinavia--a protest against State religion--few people really know that historic detail. Furthermore, the word "Evangelical" scares many people--being the word has been misapplied and misused in recent times. Similarly, the Southern Baptists have a church in our city, but they also have a church named the NEW COVENANT COMMUNITY CHURCH. It is actually a church plant. They have about 700 people worship with them weekly. Their pastor told me the reason is that the name "Baptist" also conjures up wrong ideas in many minds. Interestingly, there are many Seventh-day Adventist churches that do not use the denominational title "over the door" (many of these are black SDA churches in Regional Conferences). This has been the case in Adventism for many years. However, I understand that several white SDA churches have in recent years dropped the SDA designation as well. With contemporary worship styles and music, it is increasingly relevant to name churches with contemporary names to be more attractive and inclusive. I recently noticed the upbeat, youthful word "awesome" as part of a mainline Protestant church name here in my community. I even saw a "Holy Seventh Day Adventist Church" (smile) in a small town in eastern North Carolina--not sure if it is officially connected with the SDA Church. However, it may be affiliated with a SDA Regional Conference (formerly known as Black Conferences) being it is located in an African-American community. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thanks Dennis, I think it is great, denominational walls bother me, now if we can get the racial walls down maybe we can get unity in the church. I see this happening a lot too. Sabra | ||
| Rey_cantu Registered user Username: Rey_cantu Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2004 |
Madelia, and Chris, where can I get those bible studies? I am working in mexico starting groups of former sda and if there is some bible studies all ready, great!! Jerry, Pastors being fired or let go because of no dinero (money) If you have connections in the system: There will be money to pay you. If you are related to someone in the system: you will have a job. If you Agree with everything and keep your mouth closed and smile: you will have a job. NOW, If you dont have connections and desagree:There will be no dinero to pay you. Adios amigo, Rey Cantu | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 221 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rey, mine is archived on Dale's site. You can go here: http://www.ratzlaf.com/7-3-02%20Unclean%20foods.pdf | ||
| Dennisrainwater Registered user Username: Dennisrainwater Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2000 |
Chris, that was fantastic. I'm going to remember that, and send some folks to read that in the future. Outstanding insights! Thanks, Den <>< |
