| Author | Message | ||
| Cindy (Cindy) |
Thanks! Dennis, for the great post on tithing laws & history and also for reminding me of the reality that we as believers in JESUS' WORK for us -- can now REST in full ASSURANCE that we are IN CHRIST, in all that HE ACCOMPLISHED and FINISHED! The last few months I think I've be having "post traumatic stress syndrome" about Adventism. Although I've not attended an Adventist church for a number of years, pressures from our extended SDA family, some subtle, and some not so subtle, wear me down. The confidence that comes with the acceptance of being IN Christ is a wonderful mood lifter. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Dennis, thank you for that great discussion of tithing and giving. Thank you also for pointing out that the laws of firstlings was completely separate from tithing. You're right; many preachers try to combine the two to get more $$ out of parishioners. The laws of firstlings, actually, foreshadowed Jesus. (What a surprise! Everything was about Jesus!) He was the firstborn among many brothers, and he was the firstfruits from the dead. Doc, I really appreciated your explanation of the place in which you place the gifts of the Spirit in relationship to Jesus and salvation. It reminded me of a powerful sentence I read last week in John Piper's book, The Legacy of Sovereign Joy in which he examines the lives of Augustine, Luther, and Calvin. He explains that Luther's position was that we discover the Holy Spirit and the reality of God through "the external word", or the Bible. Luther believed that no added prophecy or revelation existed to give us more understanding about God and salvation than has been revealed through the "external word". Here's Piper's sentence that resonated with me, coming as I did from the (astonishing and embarassing) position of believing in a modern-day prophet: "So it is for the sake of Christ that the Spirit broods over the book where Christ is clear, not over trances where he is obscure." (p. 83) Wow! Doesn't that sum it up? I love the image of the Spirit brooding over the Bible. It was His inspired work, and He reveals Jesus through it to everyone who desires truth! No extra prophets are necessary! And yet the Holy Spirit gifts us to do the work of Christ and to worship him in ways we could never do left only to our own talents. Our pastor, who is not a charismatic preacher by the usual definition of charismatic, believes strongly that many denominations have lost their doctrinal center because of their view of scripture NOT being inerrant. In fact, he believes that many churches are shriveling and dead because they have not remained true to the Bible and it's teachings. His wife has told the leaders in women's ministry that Gary will not join the local pastor's association which includes the "liberal" denominations because he believes they are straying from doctrinal integrity and are leading people astray. Even though his own educational background might suggest that he is in the academic and social league of those pastors, he chooses to meet with the ministerial association locally that includes the Pentecostal and charismatic churches because they have remained true to the gospel and take scripture seriously as the inerrant word of God. On the National Day of Prayer, that ministerial association held a community prayer and praise service at the Redlands Bowl, an open-air amphitheater in town. It was really quite moving to me to see our pastor and our worship team participating as part of the leadership of that prayer service. I know that our pastor does not personally encourage a Pentecostal form of worship and even disagrees with some of the specific ways some Pentecostals interpret certain texts to endorse a "second blessing". Yet those stylistic and possibly interpretive differences are not important compared to the centrality of Jesus and the gospel and the innerancy of Scripture. Gary openly aligns himself with those who uphold Jesus and take the Bible seriously. He won't, on the other hand, be part of a group who have a liberal view of inspiration, biblical interpretation, and salvation. For him, it's a matter of integrity and loyalty to Jesus. I really felt that he modelled something important to me. His personal style and understanding are not what's important. What's important is this: Where do you put Jesus? If He's central, if the Bible is taken seriously as the inerrant word of God, then the other details are secondary. Praise God for Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Carol_Anne (Carol_Anne) |
Hello, I haven't been here in a long time. I used to come on as Shereen. I was wondering if anyone here knows of a good church in Edmonton, Alberta Canada. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Welcome, Carol Anne! The only person on this forum I can think of right now that lives in your part of the world is Clay. I don't know whether or not he knows Edmonton, though. Clay, can you help? Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
About finding a church home: Frankly I like a very formal service that is rich in history and Christian tradition (this is a sore point with my sda kin as they tell me we are not to practice the traditions of men and hence my attending the Lutheran church is wrong because a Lutheran service follows historic Christian Church format). Some people enjoy the more informal service with the gutiars and drums and what is referred to as praise music. I believe there is a place for everyone with a worship style that meets that persons personality. As long as The Truth is presented the just go church hunting until you find a Body of Christ that you want to be part of. And, while I'm at it, why not give a local ELCA a try? | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
I agree Susan, Although I like drums and guitars played very loudly, I truly love a formal service. I had attended a Lutheran church for one year prior to getting sucked into SDA. The church formalities were a form of corporate worship on a level that one doesn't often see displayed in many churches. The pastor was all dried up and should've been sent to pasture a long time ago, but he was a Godly Christian man. I knew two members of the congregation, attended Sunday school and Mens Weekly Bible study once during the week. I truly believe, that regardless of the denominational title, or lack of one, a believer has the Holy Spirit, and can discern a group of Bible-believing followers of Jesus as a proper place to worship. The style is an individual choice. There are some formal positions the ELCA has that I'm personally a little sensitive to. But overall, it is a Christian denomination with many wonderful Christians for fellowship, worship, study and prayer (Acts 2:42.) Steve | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Speeking of the ELCA: I got my monthly magazine in the mail yesterday called, "The Lutheran". It's time for me to write a letter to the magazine and give my opinion about something. Apparently the Minnesota legistature has passed a law stating that anyone with a clean criminal recoed can carry concealed guns into anywhere unless the establishment posts a statement that firearms are not allowed on said premisis. So, the Lutheran churchs are posting signs that the faithful should not bring their guns into the church. Frankly, I would prefer to worship with a well armed congreation of Christian believers. I would much prefer to be around law-abiting Christian folks who are packing their pieces than to be in a building that the only people with the guns are the criminals. And, looking at history we can see that it is not unusual for some wacko to start shooting up during a church service. | ||
| Leigh (Leigh) |
Hi Everyone, We finally did it! We stepped out of our comfort zone. My family and I went to our first Sunday service this morning. We went to church with my neighbor at a non-denominational church just 3 minutes from where we live. We know several of the families there. I wasn't quite sure what to expect, but it was great. We all loved the praise and worship service. The message was wonderful. I could feel the presence of the Holy Spirit. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
How wonderful that you found a good place the first(?) time. What? No sermons explaining how to torture Sabbath-keepers? (Just kidding) Nothing like a meaningful Christian service to warm one's soul, right? I am sure one could find flaws almost anywhere, if you look hard enough. I just hope you enjoy the positive experience. God Bless You. Jerry | ||
| Leigh (Leigh) |
A few weeks ago I mentioned to an Adventist friend of mine that I was thinking about attending a church on Sunday and she said "not with all those Sunday worshipers! They are worshipping the sun!!" I said yes they worship the Son, S-O-N, She wasn't amused. Jesus Chirst, and Him crucified was sung and preached today. We WERE worshipping the SON. It was our first SUNDAY service, but not our first time at the church. We've done vacation Bible school, Christmas eve service, and some of their other programs for a few years .I was always drawn to the people that I had met from this church because of the love for God evidenced by their love for others that I could see. We are still praying for the Lord's leading. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Isn't it an awesome thing to walk into a church and feel the presence of the Holy Spirit? Isn't it a blessing to feel the love of fellow Christians? AND to see that the stuff the SDA's were saying about "them" is false! I'm so happy for you Leigh. | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Hallelujah! May the Lord Jesus lead and guide you to the part of the body he has prepared for you. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Leigh, I am so excited for you! It's an unforgetable experience to feel the Holy Spirit in church and to actually worship Jesus, isn't it?! I pray for your family to grow in Jesus and to experience true fellowship and unity in the Spirit with other believers! Colleen | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
Hi Everyone, In my memory I somehow associate New Life Church in Colorado Springs, CO with former adventism. Is this just a misguided glitch in my memory, or could it be true? If anyone on this forum knows, please let me know. Thanks, Derrell | ||
| Melissa (Melissa) |
The church has a website at www.newlifechurch.org. There is nothing on the website that indicates it is associated with former Adventists. Maybe someone else knows something. | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Derrell, I'm pretty sure there is no past or present conncetion between Adventsim and New Life Church. New Life Church is a well known mega-church (8000+) and the home of the World Prayer Center. The pastor is Ted Haggard who I believe just became the head of the association of evangelical churches (not sure of exact title). Could you possibly be thinking of Pastor Clay Peck's congrgation, Grace Place, in Fort Collins? Chris | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I also thought you might have had Clay Peck's church in mind. He has joined with another congregational church, and the combined congregations still have the name Grace Place. Clay is, I believe, the senior pastor. You can check out Grace Place at GracePlace.org. | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
Thank you Colleen, Grace Place is indeed the church that I was thinking about. Derrell | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
I have a interesting story about finding a new church. To understand what's going on, I need to give you folks some background. In August, my family and I moved out of SoCal (just in time to miss the big fires!) north to Tahoe. Well, there are no E.V. Free churches in the area. So, I started checking out the other options. The church that finally seemed as if it would be right is an independent, evangelical community church with Conservative Baptist ties (Sierra Community Church). I've only made it over there for church three, maybe four times---and only by myself. I've been to a mens group study about four times. I have three kids. The two youngest kids usually go to church with me. My youngest daughter we had to put into public school as the only Christian school is the Catholic school. So, she started 8th grade, and I told her you need to try to find the Christian kids and hang out with them. I've also told her that another way to find the Christian kids is to go with me to my new church. Well, for the most part she has wanted to go across the street to the tiny Foursquare church where she knew a couple of the kids---neither of which went to her school. So, she has never been to my new church. She also wound up with some non-Christian, so called friends. These so called friends decided this week that my daughter just wasn't fit for their clique and dumped her. So, yesterday, my daughter comes home from school and asks 'Dad, have you been talking to the juniors at your church?'. I said 'No!' 'How could I as mostly I've been going to the mens group, and there are no kids there. What's up?' My daughter replies 'I've had five girls that I don't know, at different times, individually, come up and ask me if I'm going to be in church this Sunday? My daughter replied 'Yes, I'm going to church this Sunday, what church are you talking about? All five girls said 'Sierra'! Now what are the odds of that happening, especially in the week that she finds out that her so-called friends really aren't friends? My daughter thinks it's creepy, but I told her that sometimes God works in really unusual ways. Anyway, guess where she has said she'll be on Sunday? Yep, Sierra! Walking with God always seems to be an adventure....... Bill | ||
| Melissa (Melissa) |
That's a great testimony! Thanks for sharing. |
