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Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 166
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 7:36 am: |     |
I have a few questions for those who believe that the 10 Commandments pre-existed Sinai:
1. Why did God command Abraham to kill his son Isaac when the 10 Commandments clearly prohibited such a thing?
2. Why did Abraham intend to kill his son Isaac when the 10 Commandments would have clearly prohibited such a thing?
3. If indeed Abraham followed the 10 Commandments, clearly he must have believed that God was "above the law", so to speak, if he obeyed God's command which was in opposition to the 10 Commandments, right?
Food for thought. Any ideas, Formers?
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 1:09 pm: | |
Great point, Freeatlast.
We've been studying Romans on Friday nights, and we've been going really slowly through the book, doing a detailed inductive study. It's so clear, when one reads Romans 1 through 3 carefully, that only the Jews "had the law". The first chapter states clearly (verses 18-20) that what may be known of God was plain to people, because God made it plain to them. Since creation, God's "invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." But because of their wickedness, people suppressed the knowledge of God.
Paul then walks through the proof that even those who had the law (the Jews) had failed to be righteous, and in chapter 3 he summarizes that absolutely no one, with or without the law, was good. All are doomed.
If it's true (as Paul says) that everything that may be known about God was made plain through creation, not the law, then it seems significant also that the seventh-day Sabbath is one thing that's not discernible from creation. By deduction it seems clear that if the Sabbath was really an important part of knowing and honoring God, then it should have been discernible in nature.
Also by deduction is seems clear that if only the Jews were being held responsible for having the law, no one before Sinai could be indicted by it. In fact, Paul says in Romans 2:12: "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." And in verse 14 he says, "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law."
You're right, Freeatlast. If one really reads the Bible carefully, it's clear from Genesis onward that the law (the Torah including the Ten Commandments) did not exist before Sinai, and then it were only for the Jews.
In fact, Romans 5:13 says, "For before the law was given sin was in the world. but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come."
It's clear that the law did not exist at creation. Of course, our eternal, sovereign God who personally embodies all law was ruling over creation, but the demands of the Ten were not given. The Sabbath was not obvious from creation, and there was no command to keep it until Sinai.
God is awesome!
Colleen |
Praisegod
Registered user
Username: Praisegod
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 3:14 pm: | |
Colleen, I would agree with you 100% here. Perhaps God was communicating with his people much as Christians today who understand what it is to walk in the Spirit. After all, somehow Noah had to be totally convicted about building an ark when it had never rained. And Abram seems to have come from a line of idolaters, yet somehow he understood that the true God told him to pack up and move out even though he didnít know where he was going.
If you really look closely at Abrahamís life, it is obvious that he had a genuinely close relationship with his Maker. Even today, if you really believe in an intervening God, you know that you know that you know when God has given you clear direction. This is something that I'm still learning after leaving Adventism and what I now recognize was mostly a cognitive relationship with God.
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Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 46
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 4:56 pm: | |
This reminds me of my 12 step program. It taught me so much about how to let God into my life, to have a personal relationship with God, so that when I read about EGW and her plagiarism and studied the Bible, God used it to clear the cobwebs of Adventism out of my brain so I did not have a hard time giving up the Sabbath, and every thing else. The one doctrine I have had difficulty with is the state of the dead. The reason I have had a hard time with that one is because I learned some stuff, that was not good, about my Mother. I am not sure where her spirit is now. When she died I thought for sure she would make it to heaven. But God has also taught me that He is in charge and where ever my Mom ends up will be okey with me, because God is just.
I will accept that. |
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