| Author | Message | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 487 Registered: 3-2001 |
Well, I got home late tonight to the news that one of the Elders at my former church had called to "see how I was doing." Wow, that was really thoughtful - were it not for the fact that there is a evangelistic crusade starting in just two weeks. Do you think there might be any connection? Just a thought. Do Adventist ever see people as anything other than "prospects?" Just venting. Don't really expect an answer. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2004 |
This reminded me that my husband's church is starting up meetings soon. I asked him and he said the evangelist is coming tonight or tomorrow. Come to think of it, the pastor's secretary called me Friday to set an appointment for me to see the pastor Wednesday. I'm sure it's not to try to convince me to return, but I woke up this morning with the strong conviction that he is only fooling himself about being a grace-oriented Seventh-day Adventist. The last time they had evangelistic meetings he had to try to repair the legalistic damage for months afterwards. Pray for my meeting with him on Wednesday as he does not know how newly convicted I am about the toxicity of the denomination--even though he ignores things that aren't solid gospel. | ||
| Packer_eric Registered user Username: Packer_eric Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hi all! First-timer here. I have been looking at this site (and many others) for over a year now. I just recently was granted a username. (Yes, a huge Green Bay Packer fan at your service!!) At any rate... I am 42, a married father of two boys. A school teacher in Colorado (Business/Marketing). I came to Colo after 3 years in a very small northern Nevada town...I wanted to leave mainly out of boredom but fear for my boys to be raised in such a small (gambling) town with not a lot to do...I miss the kids at the school and enjoyed coaching basketball among other things. Now my reason for posting. I am (still) "in" the SDA church but have been a "rebel" for most of my 14+ years after baptism in 1990. I have NEVER thought much of EGW and her writings - I have read many books, but always felt unworthy to the max because of them...in truth, all I have to think about is what Christ did for me on the cross and that's enuff for me!?! Still, I and my family attend quite frequently, more out of habit than anything else... I was drawn to SDAism because my older brother became an SDA in late 70s, did missionary work, graduated from LomaLinda, and is now a pastor in Hawaii...he is pleased that I am the only one in the family (another brother, sister, mom and dad) who attend the SDA church. But I know he is a bit unnerved about my passion for athletics, my occassional "work" on Sabbath, and non- interest in sending my boys to private school. On that latter part, I want them to experience what the real world is like with Mom and Dad there to discern for them...I don't want them sheltered from reality and want them to "accept" others... Without rambling on for too long, I am "familiar" with many of you and your angle of posting...awkward as it may seem, though I attend the church, I am becoming a bit of a "rebel" when it comes to Sabbath School discussions, et al. The current membership is low (50 or so) so my family and I are well-accepted, in fact, my wife, a non-SDA church-goer, teaches the primary downstairs!?! She likes helping out and has the chance to spend time with the boys. Again, I would love to become a part of your (weekly) discussion. I want to know the truth...I want to know why I attend still...is it out of convenience, fear, compelling doctrine or do I really need to go somewhere else? Attending church on Sunday would be such a BIG move for us at this point. In all honesty, I sort of feel that I could be drawn to this place to "witness" in some respects and help open the eyes of those stubborn and well-entrenched as they do not have much open-mindedness. Anxious to hear from anyone. Praise The Lord! Eric | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 577 Registered: 7-2000 |
Welcome Eric. Only you and the Lord can decide if there is any opportunity for you to witness at your church. I must tell you tho, that many of us here went the route of staying to try to have an impact on those who are stubborn and well-entrenched folks in the church. I'd have to say that for at least 4 or 5 years we were in the church that was why we were there. Thing is that they didn't want to hear, and the garbage is toxic to you. We only realized how we had been affected by being around the garbage after we had been out of the church for some time. And we had been the resident rebels in our congregation, so we weren't exactly passive. What finally got us moving I think was one question. Let's say a friend or co-worker came to Christ and wanted to attend church with us? We realized that we couldn't in good conscience take anyone to the church because we knew they would be taught legalism, and instead would be steered toward EGW instead of Jesus. Then too we realized we didn't want our kids raised in a church with the stubbornness and well-entrenched legalism we saw. By taking them to that "church" we felt we were, in effect, putting our stamp of approval on what was taught there! Just something to think about in makin a decision of when to leave. And I do think the only choice IS to leave at some point. Otherwise, you yourself are never going to make spiritual progress because you will always be hearing/addressing/combating the same doctrines over and over. | ||
| Terryk Registered user Username: Terryk Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hi Eric greetings. We are all coming from different sides of being SDA. I was very deep in teachings so I could not stay and get a healthy relationship with God. I had to find out true gospel and that would not be the place. Yes we all have had to change and you would be surprised how quickly your life can change from worshiping on Saturday to Sunday. And yes most of the members will never listen or you will not get past the viel. Its like talking to a brick wall. I will pray that you may experience a true Grace filled worship service. I encourage you to visit a church on one Sunday just to see. I am glad you wrote on the forum. I love meeting new people and sharing our lives. I never could understand how in church they would just put anyone in charge of the kids I have seen people who lived lives totally different then the church preaches but they would let them teach the kids. Not your wife . But from my experience you could be anyone they would let you lead out to get you in etc. I would love to talk with you more. | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 488 Registered: 3-2001 |
Welcome Eric! I too am skeptical about the influence that you will have within the local congregation. I "rode the fence" for a couple years before I decided that I could no longer stay. In late 2001, I finally realized that "no matter how grace filled an Adventist Pastor might become, there are certain beliefs that are so antiethical to the Gospel yet so firmly entrenched within Adventism that would he would ultimately have to choose to either compromise or leave." If a Pastor (which I am not) cannot significantly impact the congregation, what about a lay person. Once I came to an understanding ofthe Gospel, I was so excited about it that I shouted it from the roof tops. I was an Elder at the time so I had the opportunity to teach the Sabbath School lesson frequently and also had the opportunity to preach on occasion. Every opportunity I had, I spoke about God's wonderful grace. Mostly, I got blank stares in response. Some of the die hards actually got hostile. I remember sitting in Sabbath School class one day, where the question about how we are saved was being batted around for the umpteenth time. The discussion was hot and heavy. The Pastor stood in the back of the class observing, yet never said a word. I remember thinking, this is sad that we cannot even agree on something as fundamental as how we are saved." The Pastor never addressed the issue in the class or from the pulpit. I realized that for most of the people there, it was not a matter of life and death, but just another topic to be debated. The only important thing is that you they were in the SDA Church. You mentioned that you left Nevada because you did not want your boys to be unduly influenced by the gambling culture there. That is commendable, yet every week you expose them to the toxic garbage that is spewed in the Adventist church week after week. Many of us on this forum are life long Adventist--born and bred. Our families ranged from the die-hard historic Adventists to the much maligned liberals. However, we share a common story of how Adventism has adversely affected our lives--even today. I beg you, for the sake of your boys, don't continue to expose them to the legalism of Adventism (or any other legalistic church for that matter). They deserve to hear a consistent message from both you and from the church each week. I could make many points, but I will close with one final--and perhaps the most important point. God instructed us to assemble together with fellow believers for the purpose of encouragement and edification. It would seem that by staying in the Adventist Church for the sole purpose of witnessing, you are in eeffect saying that you're exempted from this very important need. It is a noble objective, but one that has great costs. Previously, most of us could never see ourselves being in a "Sunday Church" (I know for me it was very uncomfortable at first), now we couldn't see ourselves anywhere where the pure Gospel is not preach on a weekly basis. There is NO substitute for that. Having said all of that, just realize it is a process. The Spirit will let you know when it is time to go, and if you're like me, he will even tell you where to go. He is a great teacher. God Bless. I wrote this hurriedly, so hopefully it flows and is read with the love that was intended. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 242 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hi Eric and welcome! I like what Doug had to say about the Spirit letting you know when it's time to go. In my case, I believe the Spirit really was guiding me to saty for a short time (although I really didn't want to). I believe God still had some work for me to do and I believe He wanted to preserve my marriage as well. As a result of listening and staying, God was able to reach 4 other families and a single in that church who have now come out of Adventism. As a result of listening and staying for a while, God was able to work in my wife's heart and through circumstances. He did this in such a way that when He said it was time to go, she was ready as well. Indeed the Spirit must lead in such a transition. Having said all this, I also have to agree in principle with the other comments above. If one is to stay in Adventism once they have been convinced that it is not compatible with the Gospel, then they should be very very sure that it is the Spirit commanding them to stay and not a matter of convenience or comfort. There is great peril in ignoring or disobeying a call of the Lord to come out. I understand very well just how big a stumbling block the Sabbath is. I spent so much of my life focusing on the shadow (the weekly Sabbath), that I was unable to truly cling to the Reality (Jesus Christ) that the shadow pointed to. I think it is very difficult for former SDAs to truly move on in their spiritual growth until they are able to fully study and come to grips with this subject. Those that continue to cling to the shadow continue to struggle in my experience. But having given that cuationary note I would also make a suggestion for making the transition a little easier. Many churches now offer Saturday night services. You might look for a few good Biblically based churches in your area that hold Saturday night services and begin checking them out. This is what my wife and I did as well as most of the families that came out just after us. Somehow it's just a bit more comfortable and helps to ease the transition, life style changes, and culture shock that are inherrent in any major life change. May the Father pour out grace and love upon you, the Son be very real to you, and the Spirit speak to you as you pray through this matter. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 117 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Eric! I also understand the "staying to make a difference" decision. We did that for several years. What gave us the final push to actually leave (after we had figured out who Jesus really is and that He is our Sabbath rest) was our boys. Our older boy was 15 and attending an SDA school. He was conflicted; he couldn't tell his peers that he wasn't Adventist or that would have put a pall over his social acceptance; neither could he really admit he was a Christian because that idea was just plain uncomfortable if not outright foreign to his peers. Further, we finally realized that we could never teach or expect true integrity from our boys as long as we compromised something as significant as staying in a church whose teachings we believed to be wrong while rationalizing we were doing so to "make a difference". While I believe that God DID use us inside the church for a period of time while we were studying, ultimately he led us to to the door and said, "Follow me out." If we had not followed, we would have compromised our integrity as well as our relationship with Jesus. We realized we could not appear to support what we had come to believe was patently false, or we would be living a lie. I believe that the most important things you can do during this time in your experience are to be reading the word while praying for God to reveal truth, and to be asking God to show you his will and his timing regarding whether or not to leave the church. The freedom and growth we found when we left and truly began to worship with other believers and to hear the Bible taught every Sunday is immpossible to explain or overstate. With prayers for you and your wife, Colleen | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 578 Registered: 7-2000 |
Eric, alot of churches also have Wednesday night services. These services are more informal, generally, and there will be greater opportunity to get to know people. That was when we began when we finally allowed the Lord to move us into a church. You know Eric, where you have been is NOT church. So you and your wife might also really get into studying the book of Acts to find out for yourselves just what it is the Lord intended His church to look like. Hey guys, a dear saint from our church died yesterday. All day long, whenever I think of Barbara, it's like I can almost hear her laughing with delight. Quite a change from the SDA "resting in the grave" downlook! | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2004 |
This morning while I was cooking breakfast my husband casually handed me the brochure for the upcoming SDA meetings. I looked it over and absolutely started weeping. Now while I realize that none of you know me, rest assured that the SDA church raised me well: reasoning only, never show emotions, stoical attitude, no cracks in your armor etc. So this reaction was so uncharacteristically not me that I knew it had to be a God thing. My SDA husband was looking at me quizzically and I said, ìWhereís Jesus?î (I was so overjoyed when he said that he noticed the same thing.) The front cover has a world superimposed with a huge cross over it. Inside the first night: ìOur day in the light of Bible prophecy. New world order on the horizonî Second night: Angel appearances world wide. Be informed! Third night: Mark of the Beast Part 1 of 3óthe Antichrist. Nowhere on this entire brochure do you see ìJesusî and the only place you see Christ is in antichrist! I was weeping for the missing Gospel. Also for the fact that the brochure was blatantly to steal sheep from other folds. Why else a cross on the front? It was such a stark contrast to the brochures that had been mailed out to the neighborhood of the Willow Creek styled church I attended yesterday. Their whole focus had been to let people know there is a God who loves them. The Holy Spirit reminded me of the parable of the lost sheep. The shepherd was looking for the one lost sheep. Here is a congregation where the ìshepherdî (evangelist, not local pastor) is trying to get into other folds and steal their sheep. So obviously they consider them ìlostî and for some reason they arenít too worried about the truly unsaved who need to hear the gospel. I believe my tears told me I need to be in prayer that anyone who attends is protected from hearing a wrong message. Iím truly concerned that the brochure said there was to be a live Spanish translation. The Hispanics in this area are very relational and will probably bring in a huge crowd, most of whom are relatively uneducated and recently arrived from Mexico. To complicate matters, Iím meeting with the pastor this Wednesday (at his request.). I was just reading Greg Taylorís story of his journey out and he so reminded me of this pastor. My guess is he had lots of pressure from the conference to have this series. Iím also guessing he didnít preach it himself because he wonít teach all the doctrines. I could really use some words of wisdom here from all of youÖ Praise... | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2004 |
I hate the brochures for the prophecy seminars! They scared me as a child and they still do. The scare tactics of the beasts and weird creatures. I never realized that Jesus was not the center. Some SDA's really love Jesus, but overall, it is not always the main theme! I still attend SDA churches to take my mother, but every time I go I overhear something that doesn't ring true. I used to think it was ALL true, and now it is like my eyes are opened or the scales are off. I do struggle with the Sabbath issue, because every time I read anything about commandments, whether in 1 John or Deuteronomy, I hear those old tapes about obeying God. I do want to obey God, but it gets so complicated when it talks about His commands. I guess I need to study that further. Anyway, welcome Packer. It isn't easy to change everything at once. My sister studied all this with me, but holds the Sabbath still, and is going on Saturday night to a wonderful grace filled church. She loves it. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 243 Registered: 7-2003 |
Barbsigirl, I hope you will read "Sabbath in Christ" at your first opportunity. It truly is the finest book out there on the subject. You will really read the Bible in a different wonderful way once you fully grasp that the Bible (and everything in it) is focused on Christ, not on a day of the week. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 118 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree with Chris, Barbsgirl; read Sabbath in Christ ASAP. You can get it from Dale Ratzlaff's website by emailing dale @ratzlaf.com (notice the web address has only one "f" on "Ratzlaff".) PraiseGod, I understand your tears; You're right about following your urge to pray that God will protect those who attend. Also pray that God will convict the pastor and that He will glorify Himself through your visit with with him. Sometimes God gives us opportunities to speak for him to people, and we may never know exactly why or what comes of it. Richard and I have had similar experiences. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hi Forum Members, I am a new Christian, having just left the SDA church. I was born into an SDA family and went to SDA schools, first grade through LLU. I have to explain how I left. I got divorced and my church could not/did not know how to be supportive. My name was taken off the church books because of my not attending church and they never notified me, even though the church knew where I was. I joined Parents without Partners and found support and friends there. I am still in contact with these friends. I joined a 12 step program because I was eating in a crazy way. In this program I have learned how to let God work in my life one day at a time, that he is intensely interested in everything I do and that he cares about me. Through this progam I have learned how to let go and let God and many other things. This program did bring me back to my church, but with a changed attitude. I did not like the legalism and the way EGW is revered. I have gotten up and walked out of church when only she was quoted and not the Bible. I do not remember where I found a web site about EGW and her plagiarism. Then in Nov 2002 I moved from Virginia to Nevada. I started attending the celebration church in Las Vegas after I had been here a while. This past Dec there was an evangelistic series being given at the church. The Bible class I attended has some very nice supportive members and I decided to be rebaptized. The pastor was supposed to come visit me and he never did. The other pastor told me he would after the evangelistic series and he has not. My Bible class got very involved in helping at the series. I could not. I thought I was resisting the Holy Spirit. About that time I found, or it probably is the Lord, directed me to this and other web sites about SDAs and EGW. I read everything, spending hours on the internet. I wrote to one of the exSDA pastors and he very nicely answered me. One of the things he wrote was that as an SDA I had to accept EGW and that if I could not I could leave the church. Well, I cannot accept EGW as inspired by God, not after everything I had just read. So I dropped going to church and began looking for a place to worship. I bought a Strong's Concordance to go with my KJV Bible and am studying one subject at a time. Through all this there has been an underlying question to God, which I had not openly asked him. This is what is the gospel of God and what do I need to do to be saved. Now I know that my actions get me no where. This morning I opened the Bible and read the next chapter on my list. It was John 4 & 5. What was brought to my attention was the story of the man from Caperneum, who came to Jesus and asked him to come and heal his son. Jesus told him to go home, his son was healed. When he arrived home, his son was healed and hiw household became believers. Then I found John 5:24,John 6:28,34,40. I am still digesting these texts. I am having some difficulty with tithing and the state of the dead. But I will study each of them thoroughly and i know God will lead me. Please excuse my user name. I belong to a dating service on the internet and use flyinglady and automatically put it in and after I sent it I saw I could have done differently. Flyinglady aka Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 288 Registered: 1-2003 |
Welcome Diana. I too left the SDA church after the veil was removed by the Holy Spirit. I never knew what the Good News was and I was raised my entire life SDA and in SDA schools. I find that very sad. I am still trying to process out of SDAism...my husband is coming around too, though slowly. There is so much back biting and turmoil involved in being a member...he is tired of it. We are moving our kids to a non-denominational school next year...what a big step but I know the Lord provided this opportunity!!! I will pray for you...please pray for me. Vicki aka Pheeki | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hi Diana, When you have found the Gospel, legal religion will never satisfy again! I was a whole like you in finding just how cold and uncaring SDAism can be. I believe I was around 40 when I realized that I did not know how to be saved. I had friends who were so full of joy and security about their salvation, I didn't understand how they did it. So I put away all of the "religions" books and determined that I would read only the Bible until I had found the answer. May I make a suggestion? I found that the KJV, even though I was raised with it, presented too great a language barrier for me to clearly understand. Please don't be afraid to find a translation that speaks YOUR language. It is so much more wonderful to read the truth when it is in your language than it is to try to learn an old romance language in order to understand it. I have read 11 translations from cover to cover and I can assure you tha tthe Gospel is very clear and consistent in all of them. Although I do not fully trust the "paraphrase" Bibles, I believe you will find a legitimate translation that really "speaks" to you. Second, I would suggest that you stay out of the OT and devote your reading time to the Gospels and the writings of Paul, until you really understand what they are saying. Two of the most beautiful and understandable are John and Galations. Don't read them in pieces, read them competely, as they are written .. from front to back and always read the Bible in context. What is te Gospel? The best place to start is Jesus' words in John 3:16. Don't just read it, BATHE yourself in it. Absorb it and really understand what it says. Really understand who Jesus is and what He was willing to do for only you. Go see the movie "the Passion of the Christ' and understand that that was all for YOU. Then ask yourself, "Can I reall do anything that can add to that?" His gift to you is free. To be saved, just accept it and trust, with all your heart, from that moment on, that He died for even you. In the fifth chapter of 1 John, John wrote that he wrote "these things" to those who believe (that means place your complete trust and faith in) the Son of God that you may KNOW that you have eternal life. That's a promise and it was written for you. Bless you in your search. Put your eyes on Jesus and NEVER NEVER NEVER let anyone or any "commandment" or any doctrine' or any institution take them away. Welcome home. You've come to the right place! In His Grace, always <>< Thomas | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 289 Registered: 1-2003 |
from a friend of mine...to you Diana. >I could really use some words of wisdom here from all of youÖ I know how you feel. But don't forget this one thing: God is in control. 1. No one can snatch His sheep! His sheep KNOW His voice. And they know the voice of the enemy and they flee from it. 2. It is only the Holy Spirit that can convict and convince. There may be some might be ensnared into SDAism by fear tactics, but if they know anything about Jesus and the Bible, it will not last. I would like to see the stats about those who come in to the church through these "prophecy seminars." I bet the percentage is very high of those who see through it in a short period of time. 3. God once used the jawbone of an ass to save Israel. God can use anyone or anything to accomplish His purposes. So there may be some who are led to a study of the Scriptures and a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ when they try to "prove" these things. Take me for instance, I learned in the Gospel in the SDA church from a friend of Dr. Desmond Ford's. I am sure God could have found me anywhere, but he found me in SDAism. Would I have appreciated and clung to the Gospel as strongly as I did had God not found me in the swamps of legalism? I don't know. But remember all things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His promise. God will not lose any sheep! As for talking to the pastor, you know what to say: "They have taken away my Lord, and I don't know where they have laid Him." Keep him accountable for his professed charge: The dissemination of the Gospel. He might become very defensive or condescending as people tend to do when their beliefs are questioned. Rise above that, and determine, as Paul did, to "know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and Him crucified." Don't accept any, "Yes, buts..." because the "but" totally nullifies the "yes." It is like asking your husband if he loves you, and him answer, "Yes, I love you, but..." It doesn't matter what comes after the "but." The "yes" is irreparably damaged. One more thing you need to remember: Luke 12:11 "When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say." May God use continue you in a powerful way. Grace, peace, and strength in the Holy Spirit, Patti | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2004 |
Chris and Colleen, I am going to order that book today! I look forward to studying about this and finding peace. Thanks so much Barb | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 120 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi, Diana! It's great to see you here. I love Thomas's advice: find a modern translation of the Bible, and read the New Testament, whole books at a time. It's praying and staying in the word of God that will strengthen you, teach you truth, and help you to grow in your knowledge of God and in your love for him. I'll keep praying that you also find a church where you can worship regulalry and become involved. Praise God for the miracle of new birth! Colleen | ||
| Doug222 Registered user Username: Doug222 Post Number: 490 Registered: 3-2001 |
I also agree with Thomas'recommendations. I participated in a Bible Read Through recently that focused on the OT. There was one person in particular who had never read the Bible before. It was painfully obvious to me how lost (lack of understanding, not lost in terms of salvation) he was. Just as it is important to read verses in context, it is also important to read the entire Bible in context. I don't see how you can possibly read the OT without a solid understanding of the NT. That appears to be the fallacy of Adventism. We were all taught that all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, etc. What we weren't taught is that all scripture does not have equal relevance. That is an important point. Reading the gospel of John, as well as Hebrews, Galatians, Romans, and Ephesians will assist you in putting everything in its proper perspective. In the end you will see that it is all about Jesus. Everything points to Him. In His Grace Doug |
