| Author | Message | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 260 Registered: 7-2003 |
I would benefit from your prayers today. I had a fairly awful night last night. My wife and I had Easter lunch with our friends; weíll call them Patty and Bob. Patty and Bob left Adventism about the same time we did. My wifeís parents and Pattyís parents were also there (both sets of parents are still staunchly SDA). My wifeís parents left about 6 p.m. and Pattyís parents were getting ready to leave at about the same time when Bob brought up a hypothetical about what happens to a guy that lives his life on a dessert island and never knows Christ, but does good things. Pattyís dad said that ultimately weíre judged based on whether we lived a good life or not and did the right things so there will be lots of people in Heaven who were good people, but never knew Jesus. I should have probably let it pass and avoided a debate, but to my conservative evangelical mind this seemed like a direct assault on the Gospel itself. I just couldnít remain quiet. I firmly believe that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone. I donít believe anyone goes to Heaven based on being a ìgood personî or doing good things and I donít believe there are many ways to God. I began reading passages from the Gospel of John where Christ clearly indicates that he is the only way to salvation and those that have not believed have no life. Triciaís dad just insisted that there are a lot of different ways of interpreting the Bible and if I would study it more I would see that he was right on this, but he couldnít give any scripture to back his position that you can be saved based on the quality of your life. I would have liked to just leave it there, but they then moved the conversation to the investigative judgement and 1844 as they attempted to make a case for salvation depending on works. From there the conversation moved to being judged based on keeping the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath. Then we got into the pope, Sunday laws, yada, yada, yada. Triciaís mom ended by saying, ìWell, when Jesus comes I guess weíll see who was right and who was wrong, but it might be too late for one of us.î (Still stuck on the salvation by works issue, i.e. you canít be saved if youíve heard about the Sabbath, but not kept it). If I were to sum up what all their arguments seem to be saying: Salvation normally requires works plus faith in Jesus, but in certain cases the works alone are sufficient for salvation. This puts works (especially Sabbath keeping) on a higher rung of the SDA salvation ladder than Jesus HimselfÖÖ..in fact, you might not even need Jesus at all depending on how morally you live. Itís exacerbating! I didnít sleep all night I was so worked up. I really feel like Iím experiencing spiritual attack on a number of fronts right now. Iím supposed to preach the sermon next Sunday, but Iím feeling strung out, tempted, weak, sinful, unholy, and un-Christ-like right now. I know this is the Enemy talking, but Iím having trouble shaking it and this 2-hour debate just pushed me over the edge. Iím exhausted and depressed. I could really use your prayers. Chris | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2003 |
I'm not intellectually prepared to help you, Chris; that's your great strength and my weakness. I can pray, though! Praying for you, Hoytster | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 259 Registered: 7-2003 |
Chris, I've had that argument. It is exhausting. I see the internal arguments are now full-swing and the "shoulda's" are probably sliding in there. But as is constantly said on this board, you can't convince anyone of anything, you can only present the truth. It is amazing that if the only thing you really change is where and when you worship that you suddenly are this incredibly "more" sinful person such the blood can't cover you, but we know that is merely the deceptive lies of the enemy. I would have done the same thing. I also feel the "need" to defend the gospel, but the SDA I argue with doesn't even recognize we're talking about the gospel. So sad... Father, I lift Chris to you. You know his heart and his motives in all he does. I pray that you would bring him peace and comfort as only you can. Lead him to texts and people and circumstances that will affirm your presence in his life. I also pray for those who were presented the gospel last night that you might open their eyes to the truth of your word. Lord it is so hard to be patient and to let your Spirit do your work. I confess my own weakness in this area and the constant desire to "take care of it" myself. Teach us to trust you Lord and cast all our cares upon you, knowing that you care for us. Father, I pray that the enemy will not have the victory in Chris today. Exhault yourself in his life and in his Spirit. Heal his wounds for by YOUR stripes, we are healed. Help Chris to remember who he already is in you. Father, I pray that Satan will have no hold over Chris' thoughts and that you would bring scriptures of comfort and truth to his remembrance. Not platitudes, Lord, but true words of your wisdom and grace that will strengthen Chris. He has been such an encouragement to me and so gracious in his posts here. Thank you for him and his willingness to share his testimony about who you are. Give him your rest, Lord. I pray for his family as they deal with any "aftermath" and fallout from the conversation. May you be glorified in all we do. Thank you for Christ, for the resurrection and for those who walk up beside us until the booing stops. I pray for my brother Chris Lord. Be near him today....In christ's name..... | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 260 Registered: 7-2003 |
Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the Lord is good; How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!... 15 The eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous And His ears are open to their cry. 16 The face of the Lord is against evildoers, To cut off the memory of them from the earth. 17 The righteous cry, and the Lord hears And delivers them out of all their troubles. 18 The Lord is near to the brokenhearted And saves those who are crushed in spirit. 19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the Lord delivers him out of them all. New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Ps 34:8-19). The Lockman Foundation: LaHabra, CA | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 262 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hoyster and Melissa, thank you so much for your prayers. I don't want to sound trite, but I already feel some of the fog of depression lifting just reading of your prayers for me. It really does make a difference. Thank you. | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bro. Chris, Keep your eyes on Jesus and remember the courage that Bro Paul gives in his words. NOTHING can separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. I know it frustrates, but you planted a seed. Pray for the Spirit to feed it. And .. Who knows maybe the seed for your Sunday sermon has been planted in this. Someone in the congragation may have the same need to hear the "true" Gospel! Stay in His grace! <><] Thomas | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 142 Registered: 12-2003 |
Chris, I'm praying for you. I think you can be certain that you are experiencing a spiritual attack; you're giving the sermon next week, and you can expect to feel guilt, depression, and inabiltiy to focus. Richard and I have experienced fogging, fatigue, depression, and just plain crankiness more times than we can count before our Friday night Bible studies. Ask God to place His Spirit in the place where you are feeling overwhelmed and to fill you with his peace and strength. I so understand your feelings re: that conversation and the arrogant, frustrating way the old Adventist arguments draw you in and refuse to allow you to bow out gracefully. I will pray for your peace and also that God will speak powerfully through you next week. You can lay your feelings at the cross and praise Jesus for already having born them and for his righteousness which covers you now! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thanks Thomas and Colleen. Yes, Colleen. That's just it exactly! I just couldn't find a way to disengage. They just wouldn't let me. I even tried a couple times by saying, "Well at least we can agree on...xxxx....so that's a good place to leave it". But they simply wouldn't let me disengage, they would say something even more offensive and want my response. It was pretty awful. I think my frustration kind of came through after a while. I'm normally pretty diplomatic in these types of discussions. But last night I found myself going, "And why do you think that? [it's in the Bible] Really? Where at in the Bible? [um...Revelation somewhere I think] Really? Where at in Revelation [um not sure, but if you'll read it you'll see it]. I've read it dozens of times in various version and I haven't seen any such thing. Are you sure it's there?" That probably wasn't the best approach, but as you said, it's so FRUSTRATING because they were born into the truth and don't need to study it themselves, but if you would just study it you would see that their hereditary belief system is right (as if I wasn't born into it myself). AHHHHHHHHH!!!!! :-) Chris | ||
| Terryk Registered user Username: Terryk Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes Chris I will pray for you to stay grounded. I was in church this Sunday just feeling so sad for my friends who are left behind in the SDA church. They joy that was presented that Easter morning. You have to face it they are taught and believe with all their heart that those of us who left are going to Hell. It is beyound frustrating to try and get through to them. Read Galations and listen to some uplifting music and pray for them. I will be praying for you and your sermon. | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2001 |
Chris, I am so sorry you are going thorugh all of this. It is an attack of the enemy to distract you from your sermon. You did the right thing, you stood up for truth, seeds were sown, they are able now to think about what you have said and you never know what is going through their head. I know one thing for sure, they do not have the confidence that you have and while you are stressing over the discussion, they are wondering if you are right. I will pray for you. Concentrate on that sermon! Blessings, Sabra | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2004 |
Chris, by asking where something is found in the Bible you have planted some mighty seeds. If even one of those grows and they actually go looking to prove it to you from the Bible....just think where that could lead. I agree that you are under attack in order to lose focus for preparing for your Sunday sermon. Lord, bless Chris in a mighty way. Help him to focus on the task at hand. Protect him and let him rest in your shelter and your place of refuge. Grow the seeds he's planted in your timing and in your way. In Jesus' name I pray. Praise God... | ||
| Hallanvaara Registered user Username: Hallanvaara Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2004 |
Chris, though your experience seems frustrating and you feel low and depressed, turn it for victory. I myself have been in the depths of hell and if I didn¥t found a positive side of every experience I would be dead now, separated from Christ forever. I forced myself to find always something that made all that misery and agony worth of suffering, something that grew me in humanity and humbleness. In other words I had to find Christ¥s intention for me through my experiences. Enemy attacks you because you stand for the truth. He even uses your family and friends to make you confused. Stay firm. Christ promised He will stand beside you. Turn your weakness to strength, turn your temptations to determination. Maybe you have now stronger view what to preach on that sermon. Focus in Christ! "I¥m the Way, the Truth and the Life." You know who said that. There¥s no other way to believe. I pray for you, Chris. Tuija | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 265 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thank you everyone. I just want to let you all know that I feel fully refreshed this morning and have my Easter joy back! I have no doubt, but that it was your prayers that prevented me from sliding over the edge into that pit of depression I am so prone to. Thank you again. It really means a lot to me. Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2003 |
Praise God! | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thank You Jesus!! |
