| Author | Message | ||
| Gatororeo7 Registered user Username: Gatororeo7 Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2002 |
Greetings! Grace and peace to you all! I have a prayer request concerning one of my co-workers. He and I have teamed up to work on some projects and he's been training me to get me up to speed with the goings-on around here. We were riding out to one of the project sites when he began asking me questions concerning my religious background, which led to him telling me he is SDA. I mentioned that my wife is a former Adventist which started a discussion as to why she left. He gave me the usual Adventist roundabout as to why I need to keep the Sabbath, and I calmly responded with a few questions he stumbled over: How well do you have to keep the Sabbath? What are the requirements for the Sabbath? How well did you keep the Sabbath last Saturday? When I started quoting Galatians he began to get exteremely uncomfortable and changed the subject quickly. I could tell he was not prepared to have someone know a few things about Adventism. He tried again on me yesterday, trying to convince me that death is a sleep and yada yada. As soon as I mentioned the Gospel, his attitude became very defensive. He stressed my need to ask for forgiveness and repent of my sins. I responded with Hebrews, Colossians and Galatians, all of which he stated could not be taken at face value. He had a particular problem with the definition of the word "all", as in Christ paid for ALL our sins. I could tell I was making him uncomfortable again. If anything, I hope I've made him think. I ask for your prayers concerning this because not only do I have to work with him, but I know he will try again. I did not get angry or upset with him, not in front of him anyway, even though he would have no part of the Gospel. Nothing he did or said surprised me; it was all textbook Adventism. What surprised him was that I had a Biblical response to every claim of Adventism. What upset me so much was his claims to tell me that I cannot be forgiven or saved without me doing my active part in keeping the law. This has always been my gripe about Adventism as a system: it robs the Christian of his identity in Christ. My passion for the Gospel has been heightened since studying about Adventism, and I refuse to accept any less than the pure Gospel. Is that too much to ask? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 132 Registered: 12-2003 |
No, Joel, that is NOT too much to ask! I've really come to believe that in a believer's life, God has a sovereign purpose behind all our circumstances. For whatever reasons, it's no accident that you have been placed where this man will have to think about his Adventism, whether or not he's ready to question it. You may be planting seeds that may not grow a tree until later, or you may even watch this man change! Of course I'll pray about your interactions with him! Praise God for his appointments. Colleen | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2004 |
This seems like such a God-ordained, divine appointment. God must have something important in mind for your co-worker since he strategically arranged you to be a part of this Holy Spirit "ambush". Don't you just love it when God uses us so obviously like this. Praise God... | ||
| Terryk Registered user Username: Terryk Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2002 |
Joel I will pray for you too. I am glad that you had a response for him. I think it just blows their minds. I know it did mine when someone was speaking about wine to me a few years ago and she had stuff from the Bible to back up that it was wine. I just went away but did not really understand anything she was saying. Well I pray that God can use you. | ||
| Gatororeo7 Registered user Username: Gatororeo7 Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2002 |
Greetings, to old friends and new ones! Thank you all for your prayers. I agree that this is definitely God-ordained. Pius (my co-worker) tried again on me, this time trying to prove my need for forgiveness through the Lord's Prayer. This was only another attempt to downplay the finality of the Cross. I explained that the Lord's Prayer was before the cross and under the Law. Obviously this was taken as a false claim and he tried to explain to me the "real" reason why Christ went to the Cross. I didn't get a chance to respond to him. It's been awhile since I've had a chance to defend the Gospel to someone. My military training time has slowed my thinking when it comes to snappy Bible responses. I broke down a bought a copy of Dale Ratzlaff's Cultic Doctrine (after all this time I still cant beleive I haven't read it). Just a little nugget to leave you all with. If Jesus did not do it all at the Cross, than we have no business whatsoever to come before Him in prayer. Praise God that it is indeed finished! PS: My wife is about to deliver our #2 any day now. We found out last week we're having a girl. I'll keep you all posted. Joel London | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 138 Registered: 12-2003 |
How exciting, Joel! What's her name? (I'm assuming you and Sara have already chosen one!) I'm glad you bought Cultic Doctrine. It will be helpful and revealing. As to the "snappy Bible responses"...God will bring to your mind what you need to say. Our prayers are with you and Sara. Colleen | ||
| Gatororeo7 Registered user Username: Gatororeo7 Post Number: 125 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks! Our daughter's name is going to be Hannah Victoria. She's due on the 20th. I was reading through some of my old notes last night on SDA. My wife and I talked a lot too about the love and grace of God. I don't know how many of you have seen the Passion of the Christ (my wife has, I actually haven't) but to think that Jesus went through all that on the cross only for many Christians (not just Adventists) to say, "Yeah, but that wasn't enough," or "But He couldn't possibly have forgiven ALL sins." It honestly brings me to tears to know that many honest people are downplaying and degrading THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT IN HUMAN HISTORY. They need our prayers. Joel | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 256 Registered: 7-2003 |
I am always amazed particularly this time of year (and anytime really) when I get told "the Bible never commands us to remember the resurrection" as though that makes it some minor event.... What do you really say to that? | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 230 Registered: 7-2000 |
It doesn't? Well, what is the Lords' supper for? Would the bread and the wine mean anything without the resurrection? Didn't Paul say that if Christ be not raised from the dead, your faith is for nothing? Try that reply on them! Bet they'll change the subject rather quickly............... Bill | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 257 Registered: 7-2003 |
Been there...done that...still "not commanded" to remember.... The "most important" thing is he died for our sins...couldn't believe my ears on that one... yes, I ran scripture by him ... boatloads ... irrelevant. One year his pastor preached on how non-sdas used the day as an opportunity to eat unclean meat (ham) and give out pagan chocolate bunnies and easter eggs. Funny thing is, the next year, his church did an easter egg hunt on Sunday morning. Don't try to make sense of it. I doubt it's possible. (shaking my head, rolling my eyes) It's one thing to stick to your beliefs, convictions. It's another thing to malign others to make your weak (in my opinion) beliefs appear strong. I pray that each of you will have a special time of remembering Christ in whatever way you choose to bring honor to him. All in all, we are truly blessed. | ||
| Richardtinker Registered user Username: Richardtinker Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2000 |
Dear Forum Members, I don't write here very much--just work in the background, but on this Very Good Friday and Ressurection Sunday, I want to thank all of you for the blessing you are to me as we all follow Jesus, whatever the cost. And I thank our Lord Jesus for loving us, and dying for us, and Who is now seated at the right hand of the Father interceding for us! Secure forever in Jesus, Richard | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2004 |
My 81 year old SDA mother was extremely offended when I put up a big wooden Easter Bunny with Eggs in my yard. She looked so disgusted that it made me very upset. (That "shame" look) I was truly puzzled as she didn't get the least bit offended by my Santa Clauses at Christmas time! I told her I thought it was no different and that I loved the fun of celebrating, and I didn't view it as pagan. She said that she felt like she made a fool out of herself when I was a child because she got caught up in Christmas and Santa stuff. That is actually my favorite memory of childhood. Anyway, lately she has said that she "stumbled" upon EGW saying that we shouldn't celebrate BIRTHDAYS! The next time she brings anything up I am going to tell her that she is turning into a Jehovah's Witness. I think I remember reading that Christians didn't have any holidays and so they turned the pagan ones into a celebration of Christ. What is wrong with that? SDA's pick and choose what they want to believe. I used to be so happy that they were getting more open minded and wore wedding bands, etc. Now I am so turned off, because I think "You are not following after your prophet, and everything she said was gospel, so why even bother with any of it?" I'm sorry, I am going on, but some of it makes me really angry! Barb | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 415 Registered: 6-2002 |
Of course, the difference between Christmas and Easter is that Easter always must be on Sunday, the first day of the week. Christmas, on the other hand, is a date that varies. Barb, I would try to avoid "getting back" at your mother. It only serves to upset you. I think you should determine to enjoy Easter, bunnies, eggs, and all, in whatever way gives you joy, and do not react to what your mother says. God Blesses us with the resurrection of His Son. Jerry | ||
| Barbsigirl Registered user Username: Barbsigirl Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2004 |
Jerry, you are right, I don't want to "get back" at her, I love her. She means well, but I get upset because she is so trapped in the EGW thing. I guess I just want her to realize how great life can be when you experience freedom! She did comment to me today that she wished that the pastor at church today had talked about the resurrection. She commented that she thought that the resurrection was really the most important thing! I was thrilled to hear her say that, as I have heard that SDA's don't think that way. I hope everyone has a wonderful Easter. Barb | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 141 Registered: 12-2003 |
Barbsgirl, it's really hard to let go of wanting your mom's approval of you as a person, especially when you've done something so unsettling as leaving the family identity: Adventism. Keep praying that she will be open to the truth and that her heart will be softened to the Holy Spirit's nudging of her. In the event, however, that she never does extend her approval in the ways it would mean the most to you, know this: God will not leave you orphaned. He places the lonely in families, and he is the father to the fatherless and the husband of the widows. Richard and I live with the reality that family members have not and may never come to terms with our leaving. It continues to be difficult to interact, but I can say that God surprises us with meaningful relationships and with his own presence. The pain of the hostile or distant family member cannot overshadow the joy of knowing Jesus. With prayers for you and also for you mom this Easter, Colleen | ||
| Dennisrainwater Registered user Username: Dennisrainwater Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2000 |
Richard -- This comes with a lack of promptness, but not a lack of feeling and gratitude: You and Colleen -- the work you do, the effort you give away, the leadership you bring, the wisdom and insight you share, the sacrifices you make -- all these are appreciated by many of us out here far more than we express!! Thank you for all your hard work, and for making this safe place available for us to learn and heal and grow. Thank you for your work -- once again, behind the scenes -- on Proclamation! That is such a marvelous tool. We appreciate you. We likely won't meet until we're with Jesus -- but after Him, you will be one of the first folks I want to visit with. Gratefully, Den <>< | ||
| Insideoutsider Registered user Username: Insideoutsider Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2002 |
I wasn't sure where this should be posted, but decided to try this thread. I have a questian for all of you "formers" in cyberspace. Does anyone know about a retreat or campmeeting that is held at least two times a year in the Bakersfield area? I have a relative that just attended this event. It is run by a retired SDA minister, and mostly attended by SDA's and some World Wide church of God people. Evidently their study (which went from early morning to late in the evening for 10 days) centered on the Jewish feasts that should be kept. This session went through Easter, but that day wasn't mentioned. Just think, they could have had a ham feast! (sorry, couldn't help it). I don't believe it is officially sponsored by the Adventists. As I was being told about this retreat it seemed very weird, even "Koreshish". Does anyone know anything about it? Thanks! | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 231 Registered: 7-2000 |
Just a guess---Ron Spears at Firm Foundation. I know in the late 80's/early 90's he held independent camp meetings there and in southern California. Very cultic form of Adventism.... | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2001 |
I don't know but my cousin just told me that her SDA-sort of-church did a Passover meal with the Messianic congregation that rents their church on Friday nights. The SDA did the meal, not the Messianics, they did it for the Messianics and included all of the traditions of the Passover, dancing, the children looking for the leaven bread, and Elijah, they even served Beef, Turkey and Lamb! Get out! (That was my response)she said they had vegetarian for anyone that wanted that. Does anyone find that odd? Prayers working? | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 234 Registered: 7-2000 |
Odd? Nope, there's been SDA's doing this sort of thing for years. I first encountered this back about 1988 and really saw signs of this becoming a movement by about 1990. Walla Walla has a community of these types of folks within the larger SDA community. I'm just surprised that it has stayed a rather small movement within the SDA church because there is so much emphasis on the Old Covenant/Temple/Jewish life. |
