| Author | Message | ||
| Shephil222 (Shephil222) |
Hello all, I would like to share something with you. A few days ago (out of anger) I wrote the sda's a nice little note or letter in yahoo groups, and This is what I wrote: Hello My name is Rushelle Phillips I am from Atlanta a, Ga. I am writing you because I have a few questions and comments about your ministry. First I'd like to start off by asking are you really promoting the ministry of Jesus Christ by placing guilt, fear, and hopelessness in your followers? I personally don't think so. You go around preaching the message of a false prophet who plagiarized and went against everything that is called God. She claimed that she was the lesser light, a guide tot he bible. But, if she was then explain to me how come she contradicted the word of God on numerous occasions. And never lived by her own teachings. To me she was the biggest Hippocrates that I've personally ever seen in my life. She placed all the rules and regulations on people that she couldn't even keep herself. Any prophet of God would have never told you to do anything that they couldn't do themselves. Then she also claims that she had a taste of heaven. When Jesus Christ himself said that no flesh and Blood will or has entered heaven. Most of the SDA beliefs aren't even biblical. For example The health Message. (that ridiculous thing that you call the right hand of the gospel) Where on earth did you get that from? The bible never ever said that you shouldn't eat meat. For the priest ate meat. And even Jesus Christ himself ate meat. At passover. Read Mark 14:14- 16 . You say that the disciples and Christ didn't have the health message yet. But, then on the other had you use scriptures from the old Testament to support your claims that he health message is valid. So if that's the case then Christ should've had the health message by then now shouldn't he. You use scriptures from Deut. and Ex. When even those scriptures had nothing to do with the health message. It had much to do with the law of God and his children ISRAEL:L!! Now The last time I checked you were not ISRAEL. (Not even Spiritual) You teach legalism. And Claim to have some special message to proclaim unto the world. But if you really, really, really take the time to study your word. Without the help of Ellen White then you'll see that what you teach is none other than a LIE!!! The Sabbath for example. You claim to keep it holy. But if you do then tell me why do you leave your homes on the Sabbath to go to worship? The word even says that you shouldn't leave your tent or habitations on the Sabbath day. You claim to keep the Sabbath and the law as a covenant between you and God but. You are not Is real. The Law and the Sabbath alone was a sign between God and Is real to remind them of their exodus from Egypt. Since when were you in bondage to Egyptians and God set you free? And please don't symbolize . The word speaks for its self. You are not Is real and will never be isreal. You all preach such hatred towards the Messianic Jewish community. and how they lost their chance with God. I want you to know. If you have rejected the Jews and their position on this earth. Then Know for sure that you have rejected the Messiah. For he was A Jew. Which tells me that you preach a Jesus that isn't the messiah. You claim that the advent message has been preached since the beginning of time. But your message hasn't. It started in the 1800's to only end up having a great disappointment. Tell me where isn the bible it says that the Adventist church will arise and become the people of God. What you believe is nothing but fantasy. And if you keep this up You will have yet again another GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT!!!!! I was once an Adventist my self. as well as a former bible worker and I praise God everyday that I am now free from the chains that bound me and have finally got to experience the REAL JESUS CHRIST. who has taught me what true love is and what it's all about. And it's not Legalism. Here are some scriptures to ponder. That I feel fit you all very well. Gal. 3:1 "O foolish Galations, who hat bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? " Act. 15:10 " Now therefore why tempt ye God, To put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we are able to bear? " So remember that you will never be blessed preaching the things that you do. For Jesus preached love Not hatred and guilt. He gave hope instead of hopelessness. Happiness instead of sadness Freedom instead of legalism. Eternal Life instead of Death and Hell. Now That's exactly how I felt. I needed to release some anxiety and that's exactly what I did. I have always wanted to say these things since I left last and that was the oportunity to do it. In the next post I'll put up the responses and tell me what you think. Rushelle | ||
| Shephil222 (Shephil222) |
Ok Now, here are some of the replies I got. Dear Rushelle Phillips, You said that the Bible never said not to eat meat. That is not exactly true. The Israelites were given manna, and when they demanded meat, God gave it to them until disease was emanating from their ears. This was a lesson to us. God, at times, has permitted man's demands upon Him, but we have suffered the consequences. Satan said that God gave laws man could not keep. You say that Ellen White enumerated standards that man cannot aspire to. That is a lie, in that we are told by God that we can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth us. Your statement that Christ ate meat at the Passover per Mark 14:14, demonstrate great ignorance of the Scriptures. What they ate was unleavened bread and they drank grape juice which symbolized the body and blood of Jesus Christ, and you cannot prove otherwise. Ellen White fell at times, as all prophets did, and as we all do, at which time we have an Advocate with the Father. However, she taught what she was shown to be the best course for man. Because Moses struck the rock twice does not mean he was not a true prophet. Because Elijah lost faith and fled from Jezebel, does not make him a false prophet. Nor does it make them hypocrites. Because you grossly misspelled the word hypocrite in your post below, does not automatically make you a fool. Paul preached a lot of standards in all the books he wrote, yet he called himself the greatest of sinners. To be consistent, you must call Paul one of the greatest hypocrites you ever saw! You sound like a bitter old woman who is looking for an excuse to do away with all standards in order to do anything you desire! Ellen White fully admitted that God showed her in vision first, what she later saw in the writings of others. Because of her lack of writing ability due to only having a third grade education, God led her to pursue that assistance, and she admitted such. That was not plagiarism, and if it is, God is the plagiarist, if Ellen White is telling the truth. If not, she will answer for her actions. Being taken in a vision of entering heaven, is not exactly flesh and blood entering heaven, now is it? Get real and get a grip!!! You are blinded by hate and animosity. Ellen White said that both her writings and the Bible would "appear" to be contradictory, but such was not the case if an individual was led by the Spirit to discern the real truth in such cases. These "appearances" of contradiction are stumbling blocks God has placed in the path of those who want to reject truth and stumble into hell. Christ gave the health message in the Garden of Eden. He said that they could eat of every tree except the tree of Life. Nowhere did God give permission to Adam and Eve to kill and eat meat. God proved through the manna experiment that man could better exist without meat. Also, the Old Testament of Daniel is a case in point. He and his comrades did not eat like the King's men, and they fared so much the better for it. It has been proven that they ate a fruit and grain diet. Again, you thinking as been clouded by hate which emanates from one quarter--BELOW! Jesus left His place of abode and went about doing good on the Sabbath. Remember the example of His walking through a field on Sabbath and plucking wheat. You unwittingly accuse Christ while thinking you are accusing only His followers. Jesus preached against the Jews when He called them a generation of vipers. The disciples wrote all manner of condemnation of Judah and Israel, because of their playing the harlot! You protest the use of symbolism. Does that mean that you are not a grafted Israelite or spiritual Jew? Does that mean that you do not partake of the Lord's supper? It seems like things are shaping up to expose you as one of the greatest hypocrites I have ever witnessed, and I say that in a spirit of loving rebuke. I have no reason not to love you, as I am instructed to love the sinner and hate the sin. I do hate your lies, but I love you as a creation of God. There is a true faction of Adventism, called the 144,000 firstfruits or bride of Christ, that was not to arise until the labor of the woman was complete at the end-time. Revelation mentions those labor pains until the bride should make herself ready. -------------------------------------------------- Hello Rushelle,,,,, I think you had better read her writings in context not from explanations someone told you.Men are human, Christ is Devine. Read her original writings not the ones made up today. Start with perhaps Steps to Christ,,, Then Your Bible and YOU...and ............ but no means least .......... Desire of Ages God bless you in your findings. ------------------------------------------------- For Starters, Dont worry about the meat thing. Go eat as much as you like. Then when your bowels are clogged up with dead decaying undigested flesh, ( some coroners have pulled out up to five pounds of the stuff from dead bodies) you might understand what the health message is all about. Common sense! You eat dead flesh, its gonna stick to you like that stuff does to a blanket. Try some aloe juice in the meantime, that oughta clean something out. Jesus ate fish, flesh, whatever, when he ate. He ate other things too, like fruit and veg, herbs for cleansing!!. He was in the flesh whilst on earth.I expect he ate what he was prepared when he was a guest in ppls houses. Thats called having good manners. He also picked ears of grain, on the sabbath too, and ate them, more good cleansing food. So your point is?? Adam and Eve didnt eat flesh till way after the fall, so therin lies the perfect diet. If we as Adventists want to try and stick to a better diet, well hey, who's business is it really. Are you or any other ppl the meat police? On the Sabbath issue. Jesus himself went unto the synagogue on the Sabbath, that wouldve required leaving his home and going there. He didnt live in the synagogue!!!! Your point is again? Ellen White was human. Not perfect, human, and as a human she was a sinner, and as a sinner she committed sin, as did all the prophets, as did all human beings. As do all human beings, every day, in many and varied different ways. So hanging it on the deceased, who was only human, taking her writings out of context, ( I bet you havent read them anyway, youve just been listening to some biased individual) try reading Desire of Ages. Reading always gives you an insight into the Author. Anyhow, have a good day, thanks for your insulting remarks, i always enjoy reading them from ppl. Makes my day complete knowing that as a Sabbath keeping christian i will still be persecuted for believing in Sabbath doctrine. I know im still on the right track when that happens. What did Jesus say about that, blessed are those who are persecuted for my name sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. He said it, I believe it, and thats good enough for me. Thats faith, not fantasy!!! Now, I know adventist's claim to be true christians and all but with the responses I received. What's your take? | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Oh Rushelle, I totally understand your being angry. But we can not repay evil with evil. We can not condemn, we can not judge. We must approach people, all people with love. Romans 14 tells us plainly: Receive one who is weak in faith, but not to dispute over doubtful things. Meat and day of worship are DOUBTFUL things. They have nothing to do with our salvation. I don't suppose you will receive any posotive responses. But I bet you get some pretty nasty ones. One thing to remember, is that SDA's are SO expecting persecution, someone attacking their beliefs is what grounds them even further. It is very easy to get caught up in the anger of being deceived, and trying to expose the deception. But we must pray for guidance and wisdom in our witness. God will put some people in your path to witness to, in His time, when you've gained some knowledge, don't try to rush Him. If you could share the forum address, I'd like to maybe post a neutral response to your message-to get them thinking! God Bless ya, Sabra | ||
| Shephil222 (Shephil222) |
Thanks Sabra, That was pretty convicting. You are right. Well. If you have an email with yahoo. I can post the site for you. Let me see its..... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adventist-fm/ I thank you so much for that encouragement. It's nice to recieve it from people who understand. I know now that A whole lot of adventist expect persecution but, if they claim to be so godly then why all the name calling and such? Thanks Love Rushelle | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Rushelle, After reading some of the posts on that forum, I had to draw a deep breath and praise God Almighty that I came out of that and I really had no even slight twinge to enter into that. Did you see the comment about being persecuted for the kingdom? They are brainwashed, unless the Holy Spirit directs them, I'm afraid I'm not able to go there and witness to that type of close-mindedness. Remember when Paul had sort of had it with the Jews and said "Now I turn to the Gentiles"- (maybe not a direct quote) There are many open-minded people, including and excluding SDA's who are searching and we can better spend our time on a positive note with them, unless the Lord directs us otherwise. Blessings, Sabra | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
I wanted to share with you Galatians 6:1 "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted." We were once SDA's too. We believed the lies. We were entirely convinced of our authenticity as the church having "The Truth" and the rest of the world being duped. I have got to watch myself always that if I share about Jesus and what I've learned with an SDA, I do it as this verse says: Gently, and with humility, realizing that a) I was there before too and b) I could be tempted to join them again because of human weakness. Our message has to go through the scrutiny of the Holy Spirit and in His strength and wisdom, not ours. Gary Smalley had a wonderful visual of a closed spirit, open spirit...Hold your hand up with fingers extended. That is an open spirit - your heart is open. If unkind words are said, or people attack you, you close the hand or your spirit, and do not let them in. We must do all we can to not close an SDA's spirit to us. Many of them do love Jesus with all their heart and are following what they believe is true. Dale had a wonderful article about our conscience in the Proclamation this last month. It helped me understand that for them go against what they believe to be right, is wrong - acting against oneself. Just like some of us left the church, but observed certain things for a season because in our heart we still believed it was wrong. And that was right to do. To him who cannot eat pork in faith with a clear conscience (for example), then by all means don't. Do you see what I'm saying? I think we must confront but we must do so in humility and gentleness, and from the standpoint this is what I've learned, not "you are wrong." Now after saying that, let me also say I have blown it on occasion myself. And it did no good except harden the persons heart. I regret that. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Amen Sherry! I yearn for the Spirit to teach me to share my faith in true love rather than in the dogmatic way that I have been taught. I still have a tendency to want to prove a point rather than to express genuine concern for the person I am speaking too. People know the difference. (Growing) In His Grace Doug | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Well Rushelle, I said I wouldn't, but I did, post a little message about love. NO ONE HAS RESPONDED! I signed on as wordsower if you care to read it. Good luck! There is a definate Jew hater on there, don't know if he is SDA or not..whew! | ||
| Shephil222 (Shephil222) |
Yeah, I saw your post. It's some real racist pepole in that forum. Did you see what it said about blacks and slavery? I just know that forum isn't one I'll be going back to. They'll bite your head off. But, I appreciate your help. Love alwyas rushelle | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Maybe this isn't quite the thread to post this thought, but it seems obliquely relatedóso here I go. Yesterday my principal, who is a truly wise, born-again Christian who grew up Catholic and actually views Catholicism as cultic, had a brief conversation with me. We have talked about Adventism before; he believes that they are not what they say they are, and he believes me when I say they are cultic. He has had trouble, however, getting a grip on what exactly is wrong theologically. He has an M.Div from Trinity Seminary in Chicago, and he is actually a serious Bible scholar and theologian. A few months ago I finally gave him the issue of Proclamation that had the two articles on the covenants: one by Dale Ratzlaff, one by Reiner, the SDA who used to teach Bible as some SDA college. Reiner presented the "Adventist view" of the covenant. It was, if any of you happen to remember it, convoluted and confusing, but it concluded that the new covenant does not become fully operational until after the second coming. My principal readóno, actually STUDIED--that article and said to me, "I finally see it. They don't believe the new covenant has started yet!" He has actually been active in trying to get the administration at our school to take seriously the deception of SDA'ism. So much for the background. Yesterday he told me he'd had a conversation with H.B. London of Focus on the Family about his view of how interdenominational organizations should deal with endorsing "fringy" denominations. He specifically asked him what his view was of Adventism. London replied that some Adventists were definitley problematic, but some were really right on in their understanding of salvation, etc. London said he would not call Adventism a cult. Further, my principal said that another person he knows well who has independently studied cultic groups said that there is a "reformed" Adventism that is evangelical and has it theology straight. I admit that by the time I heard these things, I felt like crying. But I restrained myself, and I told him that no matter how progressive or evangelical or even reactionary an Adventist may be, there is ONLY ONE ADVENTISM. There are no "reformed" groups. All Adventists, regardless of how they categorize themselves privately, sign their names to the same doctrinal statement, and that doctrinal statement is not Biblical. And further, if you pinned down these reformed, evangelical Adventists or the reactionary, back-to-the-blueprint Adventists, they would all say that God would never punish the wicked eternally. They would all uphold the Sabbath. They are all loyal to the church to some degree. I told him how Adventists administrators convinced Walter Martin they were not a cult, published Questions on Doctrine (which caused the laypeople to feel betrayed because it did not support typical Adventist theological views) to prove it, and how that book is now out of print. Ultimately, my principal believes me. But he is up against formidable odds in trying to take a stand because there is not true support from the Christian community. As a result, in spite of some strong opposition from members of the school board, they now have an Adventist on our school board. The upshot of this conversation, which was really distressing to me, for some reason, is that I have concluded that I, at least, will begin praying that the true nature of Adventism becomes known. Yes, I believe we need to pray that Adventists will be called to Christ, repent, and be born again. But such repenting will only happen on an individual basis. Because Adventism is built on deception, because it was not built on good faith but clearly founded and endorsed on deception upon deception as the years progressed, it is not likely that it will repent as an organization. It would not exist if it repented. All those who operate it can repent, but the denomination itself is not likely to repent any more than an organization like wicca, for instance, will repent. The Worldwide Church of God repented corporately because the leaders repented. I think that we need to acknowledge that God is calling individuals to himself, not corporations. Corporations may follow as people come to know the Lord, but people need to know the truth about the corporation as part of the truth to which God is calling them. I believe that we need to pray that the true nature of Adventism will become known and that those inside it, including those who run it, will respond to truth and the call of the Holy Spirit. As I told my principal, people cannot know the truth about the nature of Adventism unless they're willing to listen to those who have left it for reasons of conscience. Listening to those who rationalize staying inside will never reveal what's really wrong. I know from being an evangelical Adventist for several years that those inside who say "Yes" to the gospel are still rationalizing by leaving their names on the SDA doctrinal statement. I really do believe that those Adventists who do say Yes to Jesus will ultimately, even if it takes years, find their way out if they continue to say "yes" to truth as the Holy Spirit reveals it. Praise God that he reveals truth in steps that we can personally respond to. It may take years to accept it all, but God knows what and how much we can accept at any time. We can pray that God will reveal truthótruth about himself, truth about Adventism, truth about salvation, truth about the new covenantóand that all people who need to understand these truths will come to see them. As 2 Corinthians 4 says, the god of this age has blinded those who are perishing so they cannot see the truth of the gospel. Satan deliberately attempts to blind people to truth. He specializes in rationalizing and confusion. We really do need to pray for the truth to be known and to be willing to speak the gospel clearly and with confidence! Praise God for bringing the things of darkness into light! Colleen | ||
| Cindy (Cindy) |
Dear Colleen, I agree with your diagnosis/remedy of the Adventism situation. Adventism is such a deceptive thing... And so many are being brought into it every day! On the surface it is so hard for many to see the inherent falseness of it...the REALITY of people agreeing, in one degree or another, to a system of subtle works and the placing of Jesus' gift of REST in a subordinate position... As you wrote, I too "believe that we need to pray that the true nature of Adventism will become known and that those inside it, including those who run it, will respond to truth and the call of the Holy Spirit." Just a few weeks ago I heard an Adventist pray sincerely (at a "sundown worship" time) that we will always remember to keep separate the "sacred" from the "secular"... I am so grateful that, because of JESUS, HIS sacredness covers me always! Life itself, 24/7, is not broken down into secular and sacred; but ALL TIME IS HOLY IN HIM! ALL OF OUR LIFE is to be placed in HIS SACRED CARE... Grace Always, Cindy | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Cindy, That IS the point! Amen!! There is a definated separation of secular and sacred with Adventists, because like the Israelites, they only pause from their secular life for 24 hours to reflect on God. I know I did anyways. I can't say that all do, but there is an exact moment of shifting gears from personal time to "God" time, and it is the exact minute that the bulletin posted sunset would be that week. Praise God that now we can know that every minute of every day is a time to share with God, praying without ceasing and letting the Holy Spirit guide us always. Colleen, you're so much more integrated with the SDA's still than I am, you have so much knowledge, so maybe that is the way it is supposed to be. Keep up the work educating the church of their teachings. I had a man come in to the office I work in not long ago, a Baptist, telling me that his neighbors are SDA and they really seem to have salvation correct. I asked him, "Did you know that they believe Sunday worshiping is the Mark of the Beast and that they are the remnant church, and unless you becaome part of them you will be lost?" He said, "Nah" I looked at him and said, "trust me, I was one for 27 years". They really do come across to the public as having a clean life, being "nice" not bothering anybody with their beliefs. We HAVE to educate people, as the Lord leads us and puts people in our path. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 510 Registered: 11-2002 |
Didn't really know what heading to put this under so chose this one. My granddaughter is in kindergarten at the local SDA school. Monday through Thursday she gets out of school at 3:30 p.m. On Fridays she gets out at 2:00 p.m. My daughter-in-law really knows nothing about the SDA religion except that it is Christian and they don't eat pork and their main worship day is Saturday. My daughter-in-law went from first grade through high school in Catholic school. She also knows very little English and so there is some communication difficulities. She seems to have been given the impression that school lets out early on Fridays so the families can get a headstart to having a good time over the weekend. She has no clue that it has anything to do with preperation for the Sabbath. I think this is misleading not to tell her the entrie reasons of the school letting out early on Fridays. Don't you think it's deciteful? | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 585 Registered: 7-2000 |
Sabra, that was an excellent way to answer the man's comments. If you had merely begun with, "boy the SDA's sure have no understanding of salvation," he would have shut you out. Beginning with the glaring stuff, well, it kind of shuts down the argument. I've been praying forever for the Lord to place some sabbatarian in our lives so we could be used to help lead them to freedom. Didn't have a clue of any being there until a couple weeks ago when I was surprised to learn that a friend attends a messianic jewish group. I know we have had some discussion about them before, but can't remember the details. Anyone know just how into legalism they are? You know, it just brought home to me how we should always be sensitive to the Spirit's promptings of what to say. I'd been in a group with this lady several months ago and someone had asked where I attended church, and how long I'd been going. Told them briefly about having been SDA. I remember now this lady whirling around with interest and a smile, "really?" while I was answering the first lady, who had gone on to ask what they believed. Told her that meant we had kept the seventh day sabbath and said, "boy what a mistake!" The other lady then asked, I noticed rather weakly, "oh really, why would you say that?" I seem to remember just answering something about sabbathkeeping invariably leading to legalism since it is impossible to "keep" it without constantly measuring yourself against rules instead of looking at Jesus. I know the conversation was interrupted, and can't recall if I had a chance to go ahead and add that keeping Jesus as your sabbath rest is far better. Anyway, we just never know. Obviously the vast majority of folks who think the SDA are just meeting on a different day really have no clue about the "keep it or your doomed" doctrine. Susan_2 to be fair, it may be that they have told her, but her small grasp of English kept her from catching what they were saying. After all, you know they were always presenting sabbath as "such a lovely family time". Yet the reality, at least as far as I ever saw, was that the "family time" consisted of the adults taking a nap and then waking up to fuss at the kids for having been kids during that time. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 515 Registered: 11-2002 |
Do any of you out there read The Review? The Review is really pushing their Sow 1 Billion crusade. Apparently SDA's are to collectivelly send out one billion invitations to non-SDA's to attend a SDA church and/or books, including Steps to Christ and a new one called, On The Edge of Time, which is an abridged version of the G.C. I assume it probable does not list EGW as the author. Anyway, I took the insert out of a Review and it is a pre-paid postcard. This is what the backside of the postcard says, "There are more than 137 million homes in the United States, most of which have never heard a clear presentation of the gosple message. Fulfilling the great commission here and hastening our Lord's coming depends on every Seventh-day Adventist doing their part." The next paragraph says, "PROJECT: Steps to Christ can help you or your church quickly, easily, and affordably take the Three Angels' Messages to every home in your community through our Saturation Evangelism mailing program." Third paragraph, "We are looking for individuals, families, churches, Sabbath School classes, and other small group ministries who will sponsor a mailing of Steps to Christ or *On The Edge of Time to their entire city, zip code, or individual postal route. The cost is only 50 cents per home and includes the cost of the books, postage, addressing, mailing, and other free books and Bible studies offered." Then there is a place for a person to put his/her committment to this mass mailing with lines for name, address, phone number and e-mail address. At the very bottom of the card it says, "* On The Edge Of Time is an abridged version of The Great Controversery." EVERYONE, BEWARE of trash in your mailbox! | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 589 Registered: 7-2000 |
Colleen, just looking back up there at your post. Do you think Focus on the Family as an organization is also under this misunderstanding of Adventism? Susan_2 it's sick isn't it? I remember one day during worship at our present church glancing down at the seat in front of me and seeing a "revelation seminar" Bible that someone had brought with them. Talk about knocking the air right out of you! Didn't hear a bit of the sermon that day for trying to figure what I was going to say to the person. I knew him to be a new believer, very immature in his faith. After the service we spoke with him about the Bible. Yes he had been to a couple of their meetings. Thankfully he found them to be odd and didn't go back! But at least we had the opportunity to fill him in. Another time a guy was interested when we said we were former SDA. Oh! he had known some to be fine Christians and knew it must be a good denomination. Again, you just feel like you have been gut punched. As soon as we started filling him in on some of the beliefs, his jaw dropped and he admitted those things had never come up in conversation. No doubt! See them as opportunities to educate. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 293 Registered: 7-2003 |
I read through this string since I hadn't before and the comment is made about speaking in love, and I am really hard pressed on that one. It seems no matter how much love I muster and how sensitively I try to present my perspective on these issues, I am continually attacked as being hateful and negative and completely abusing scripture. Is it really possible to contradict someone's beliefs with truth in love and be seen in the true sense in which the message is given? I have tried everything but standing on my head and the message is always received the same ... as hate and "persecution" and never even remotely considered with the true love in which it is given. I've had to come to the conclusion myself that you can give a message in love and if the person is programmed to receive anything that contradicts their preconceived ideas as hate, then no matter how the message is delivered, hate will be received. Any one else experience that? Also, fascinating insights on FOTF. That was before Judge Moore, so I guess we shouldn't have been too surprised by their support of him.... | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 297 Registered: 7-2003 |
I think you make a good point Melissa. I think it's *possible* to discuss different beliefs in a loving way as long as both parties are willing to honestly listen to the information given, evaluate it, and interact with the data in a rational way. I have found that this often doesn't work with SDAs though because many of the rank and file don't have a rationale faith. In other words, their faith isn't grounded in personal knowledge, but in a blind belief in the tradition they've grown up in and what they've been taught. To question anything within this belief system is to call into question their entire paradigm for understanding and interacting with the world. To make this more difficult still, even telling them what you personally believe is perceived as a challenge to what they've been told you believe. Let me give you an example. If you deny that you keep Sunday as the Sabbath, then you are contradicting what they've been taught. They've been taught that you zealously "keep" Sunday as a new Sabbath. If fact you are so zealous about it that you would be willing to see SDAs imprisioned and put to death for worshipping on any other day. If you deny this you are a) lying, b) misinformed as to what evangelicals REALLY believe, or c) a misrepresentative aberation within evangelicalism. It truly is difficult to have a loving spiritual discussion with a hardcore commited SDA becasue not only do they know the truth about what they believe, but the truth about what you believe as well. Chris | ||
| Ladylittle Registered user Username: Ladylittle Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2004 |
When I was about 9 my best friend was a Baptist girl who lived next door. When I tried to 'share my faith' with her I tried the argument I'd heard from so many of my elders "Going to church on Sunday is because of Sun Worship and therefore Sunday church people worship the sun". Well, her mother had a wise answer for me. If going to church on Sunday is worshiping the sun, then going to church on Saterday is worshiping Saturn. But our business is to worship God. It's who we worship not when or where. I had honestly believed that they were somehow worshiping the sun. And her answer helped me realize that what I had been taught was not automatically what "everyone knew" | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 298 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes, my friend's SDA mom just used the "Sun Worship" line on me a few weeks ago after Easter dinner. I asked her if she had been to church to worship yesterday. She said she had. I asked her if she worshipped the god Saturn. She said she didn't.......pretty much ended that line of argument. Chris |
