| Author | Message | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2004 |
I have never been SDA, but my husband used to be very devout SDA.(His parents are SDA teachers etc. I was basically the first non-SDA he ever really knew well.) We have not attended an SDA church since we got married, but started out attending what I call an "SDA halfway house"... a church that met on Saturdays, full of ex-SDAs that were disenchanted with Adventism, but full of questions and reservations. My husband discovered a relationship with CHrist, a totally new concept for him, and has really grown. We now have a home church type group that meets in our house. He has focused on his relationship with CHrist, and the New Covenant mostly in his study. What we need prayer for now is that for the first time in 7 years, he has decided to really take a deep look into the SDA beliefs and see where the true shortcomings are. His entire extended family is SDA, and he wants to be able to have intelligent answers for them if they ever want to discuss SDA doctrine. So we got Ratzlaffs books, and the video "Adventism, the Spirit Behind the Church". And he is reading them. This is a sore subject for him, because it goes so against the SDA grain to question, and say Adventism is wrong in any way. (although eh says he has known this for years, just has a hard time facing it.) He hasn't called himself an SDA for years either, and yet it is amazing to me the grip it still has on his life. Even though he doesn't put any faith in the veracity of Adventism anymore, this final release has been such a long time coming! He and I have hard a very hard time studying the bible together, because anything that I differed in opinion on, he took personally and was defensive. So this time of reflection and study is a sensitive issue, something I am praying God can reach through to help us grow as a couple, as well as to guide Mike even further into dependence on God alone: to untangle the threads of EGW that are wrapped up with the biblical truth in his personal beliefs... that God can show him the difference! Please join me in prayer for him, that he can let go of the doctrinally negative influences and beliefs of his past without feeling that his entire childhood was somehow discounted. And prayer that we will be able to share these finding with his extended family, if that is what God wants us to do. I know they think I am the corrupter who took him away from "the truth". They don't say anything anymore (they used to tell us we'd be sorry inside of 5 years for being 'unequally yoked")but they still send us scads of SDA magazines and propaganda. I would love to just continue to skate around the issue, but wonder sometimes if God might call us to come to them with some of what we know, so we need prayer for that too. Sorry this is so long! It is just something that has been on my heart very much lately. | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 86 Registered: 2-2003 |
Tealeaves,I will be praying for you and your husband. When I began to "untangle the threads of egw" as you put it, I was so afraid of being deceived. I prayed the promise of James 1:5 everytime I studied my Bible. "if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God who gives to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him." Praying this promise helped me to read the Bible without the baggage of adventism, without the "White glasses" on. I had to really trust that the Lord would lead me to His truth even if it might contradict what I had previously learned and believed. That was scary! The family issue was and still is very hard for me. I would have anxiety attacks about it. There are still some who don't know we've left, such as the grandparents who live far away. The grip of Adventism is strong, but God is stronger. Leigh | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2004 |
Tealeaves, I will keep you and your husband in my prayers. Your words strike such a cord with me. Even though we're relatively new to this road with Christ, we're facing all the same issues. I plowed through that phase of study very quickly as after my first horror, I seemed to crave the need for truth, and couldn't stop until my mind was sure. My husband is himself having a much harder time with accepting all this. And so is taking it all in much slower. I hope that Ratzlaff's book is as eye opening to him as it was to me. I made a vow to my husband that I'd read both sides, so after finishing his book, I read Bacchiocci's "The Sabbath Under Crossfire". He raised some good questions but never answered (only sidestepped) the forefront questions on my mind. Though I'm glad that I read Ratzlaff's book first. What sealed it in my mind was two online debates I found, and the individuals on the SDA side (one was Bacchiocci) never came out and answered the questions. They would only "proof text", or ignore questions... then they reverted to insults and derogatory remarks. While Dale and the other christian supporter never returned the favor, and always pleaded to study the scripture openly. I am coming to know a Savior unlike any I knew in all my years of Adventism...and I know that this Savior will hear our prayers and will strengthen you, bring your husband to an even deeper understanding of Him through this searching, and will give you both the words and heart to share with your family when appropriate. Ps 119:116 Sustain me according to Your word, that I may live; And do not let me be ashamed of my hope. I'll be praying. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 312 Registered: 7-2003 |
Wow, Tealeaves. I could have been you. I didn't marry the SDA in my life, but know exactly what you mean about the defensiveness and loyalty to that religion I could never comprehend. I gave "my" SDA the books and video you mentioned 3 years ago innocently thinking it was new information and he would want to know. Boy, was I wrong. You would have thought I gave him poison. When he finally did read Cultic Doctrine he came to the conclusion SDAs were right just as he knew they were. His loyalty to them grew deeper than I had seen and than I could have ever imagined. How blessed you are that your husband will study it at all. I know that may seem like a small consolation, but it is huge from where I have been. I will most definately be praying for you and the solidarity of your family. There are many more here who can talk about the extended family, but I know the one time I asked B's sister-in-law why we couldn't find a church without EGW (my major objection at the time), I was firmly set in my place that such a decision would never be supported. And thereafter, their tolerance of me was cordial, but became increasingly suspect through time. So, all that to say, I know to some degree what it's like to be "the non-SDA", maybe not as a wife, but certainly as a mother (we have a child). This forum is great for the never-was SDA as I presume it is for the former. Though I feel my questions are stupid, sometimes, I have never felt anything but Christ-like love and acceptance here. I enjoyed reading your story. | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thank you for your prayers! Today my husband said "you know, for years I have thought that Adventism was just a bit misled, but now(that has he is starting to really research the history and basis for the doctrines) I realize that the teachings are actually dangerous." big step! We used to talk about doctrine in college, and when I would disagree with him, he'd feel personally attacked, while I just saw it as a difference of opinion. I realize now that the reasons were twofold: 1) his sense of self was so tied into being SDA that he saw any questioning of his doctrines as an assault on him as a person. 2) in his mind, salvation was not tied to faith alone, but to adherence to every doctrine Adventism profferred. That meant that questioning SDA doctrine was to question absolute salvific truth, and was downright frightening. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 226 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tealeaves, your assessment of your husband's deep two-fold fear of questioning Adventism is accurate. It is a miracle that he is studying and discussing his questions now. Praise God for softening his heart. I will also pray for you and for him. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 525 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hello, Tealeaves. Yes, SDA's get extremely defensive if shown even from the Bible texts and passages which contradict their beliefs. That is because they know they and the SDA denomination tell everyone who will listen that the SDA is the only church that has full understanding and all truth. So, when shown that this cannot be and they can't show their beliefs from Scripture then they know they must fall upon EGW and other non-Bibical sources for their beliefs and they know this just won't be worth two-bits to anyone really dedicated to real understanding of Bible truth. My SDA kin are the same way. Believe me, we on this forum really all do have the same relatives! | ||
| Another_carol Registered user Username: Another_carol Post Number: 251 Registered: 12-2002 |
Tealeaves I am Chris Carol from CARM and as I used to frequent Formeradventist I stopped in today for some unknown reason. I have been called off until 12:30 and just wanted to tell you how I will pray for you and your husband and I praise God already for the way He is moving and working in your lives. I can not go into explanation right now about my circumstances and I wish I could pull it up on search but for some reason I cannot and do not have the time. But I will tell you that in the fall of 1998 my son-in-law was duped into SDA and deceptively kept this from wife so that after 5 years of a 15 year marriage this once happy family is no more. I was thrown into an indepth study of the reason I believed the way I do and this was done with my experience and the corroboration of the Word of God. I know what kind of defensiveness there is when you present scripture to them which they have no answers to and as you see on CARM it is the same with everyone and this comes from the fact they are taught that they are the only ones right and if that is the case then they must convince others of their rightness also and in the process must streach the scripture to say what they want and need it to say. Without adding more right now I will just say I will pray for you and uphold you to God almighty to keep your husband in the only truth that matters and it comes from the Word of God and I will pray satan's power over him thru his family to be done away and may you both grow stronger in His Word, Love and Prayers because God has sent me to minister to you thru my experiences, Carol | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tealeaves, This prayer is for you. God I heaven, I know you love Tealeaves and her husband and all their family. Send the Holy Spirit to guide them into your truth. Open their eyes and ears to it and give them the willingness to love you and obey you. Be with the extended SDA family that they also will learn your truth. Amen Diana | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have a request for prayer. A younger brother will be visiting me next week. He belongs to a Messianic Jewish congregation. He and I can talk about all things, even politics and religion. He listens to me and I do not preach at him. Please pray with me that he will see God's truth and that I will be the example God wants me to be. I am new at being a born again Christian, seeing as I just became one after the first of this year. He is bringing his common law wife and her son. I just want to represent Jesus Christ in the way He wants me to do. Diana | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thanks everyone for your prayers, it means a lot. And the Holy Spirit is definitely working in our house. My husband said this week that he wants to remove his names from the SDA books... something he just "didnt think was important enough to bother with" before. But now I think it means he is cutting some of the last ties. Things on the spiritual front are getting better with us, because we are finally truly approaching our Christian walk in the same way! Praise God for His Faithfulness. (And Hi ChrisCarol, I enjoy your posts over. there. I know these difficult sittuations play out all over this world. i will be praying for you.) (I will be praying for you too, Flyinglady... that God will guard and direct your words and that the God of love rules over your time together.) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 236 Registered: 12-2003 |
Diana, I'm also praying for you and your brother. Colleen | ||
| Sabra Registered user Username: Sabra Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2001 |
Praying for you Tealeaves and Diana. Most Messianics I know are pretty balanced. Some are off in left field but most understand grace and don't tell me I'm wrong for not keeping the Sabbath, just they feel they should so we part with Romans 14. Hopefully your brother is of the fair-minded ones. At least they understand Israel and you don't have to go through all of that replacement theology nonsense! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 55 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hi Ladies, I thank God for each of you. You have been so supportive. My brother is a fair minded person. He believes he should keep the Sabbath and I do not say not to. I have already told him why I do not and he understood. Like I said we can discuss anything. He went from being a nominal SDA to a Messianic Jew. It has been good for him as I have seen all kinds of good changes God is working in him. Tealeaves, Praise God for the changes he is working in your husband. It is so nice to see God bring a family together. You must be very thankful and happy. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 550 Registered: 11-2002 |
In the latest advertisement from the Voice of Prophecy is a packet one can order comapring the truths of SDA'ism to Messianic Judism. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2004 |
Today I received a letter from the SDA church I attended. They are making a church directory and want me in it, even if I am not a baptized member. My first thought was to not say anything and not respond. Then I thought I will just write them and tell them I am no longer attending their church. Then the thought came to me, tell them why you are not attending. So I am composing a letter telling why I am no longer attending. Most importantly I want to talk about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Please pray for me as I write this letter. I want it to be Biblically correct. I am so new at this. I was thanking God no one from this church has contacted me except for the women who called when I quit going to SS. I guess God has other plans for me. I was hoping He would not. He can help me with this letter, so I am asking him for that help. The letter is signed by the senior pastor. Pray for me that the letter says what God wants it to say. Thanks my friends. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 243 Registered: 12-2003 |
Praying for you, Diana. Colleen | ||
| Debbie Registered user Username: Debbie Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2000 |
Susan_2 So what do SDAs have to say about Messianic Jews? Debbie | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 561 Registered: 11-2002 |
I don't know because it was an advertisement to order the books that explain it. I think the advertisement was from the Voice of Prophecy but it could have been through the Review or even the Doug Bachler Amazing Facts. My mom gets all of that literature. It was a small pamphlet advertising booklets, books, tracks and brouchers one can order for oodles of money to help wittnessing the SDA truth to various groups and there was several in there on wittnessing to Messanic Jews and several on non-Messianic Jews. And, in the Review was an article about wittnessing to Buddhists. I found the article very interesting. Apparently Buddhists believe in order to get to the Enlightened State they must earn their way there with better and better behavior all the time until finilly they have made it. So, the SDA article in the Review more-or-less tells its readers when wittnessing to Buddhists not to emphasise the saving power of Jesus but rather appeal to the Buddhists by telling them that Jesus went to be with God because He overcame sin and lived a perfect life so we too need to use Jesus as our example. I really had an emotional issue with that article. I'm sure it would be online if you went to the website to read the Reviews. I do not say anything anymore when I read this trash at my loved ones homes because the family dynamics are less than ideal since they found out I actually became a member of a Lutheran congreation. As long as I was "just attending" the Lutheran church they could always hold out hope that I would give my sinful religious curiosity up but once they found out I actually became a member, well, let's just say I'm an outcast. Thank God (and Colleen and Richard) for this forum because it really is a good place to come for refuge, answers to question, prayer concerns, etc. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan_2, You are loved, just as you are, here. Say what you want and ask any questions you want. We will treat you with love and respect. Diana |
