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Lynn W
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2000 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Ellen White used a minimun of 23 sources of various types of literature, including fiction, in her writings on the life of Christ."

That would explain a lot of things.
Lynn W
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2000 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The question over the "I was Showns" is probably the hardest one to answer."

Her people defend her by saying that God "showed" her things by showing her the writings in someone else's published book. That's a cheap baleout, like the time she "saw" the San Fransisco earthquake - 2 days after it happened.
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cas, thanks for that research. It's always helpful to "go to the facts" instead of relying only on opinions and trying to determine the truth by consensus, a sort of "pooling of ignorance," if you know what I mean. I agree with you totally.
Jude the Obscure
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lynn, your comment reminds me of a a conversation I had with the then-pastor of the Palo Alto SDA church back in the 70s at a Sabbath day's dinner in the home of a wealthy dentist.

I had just said, I think it was wrong for Sr. White to steal someone else's literary work.

He looked at me with distain and said, "The Holy Spirit DIRECTED her to select gems of truth from the ore of error for us."

I said, "What if the Holy Spirit DIRECTED me to go down to Pennys and steal a sweater?"

He said, "You're not a prophet of God. She was."

Makes you wonder how many "prophets of God" are in jail right now by DIRECTION of the Holy Spirit.

Jude
Plain Patti
Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2000 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Friends....
Have you ever read Steps to Christ? I mean, have you ever REALLY read it?

Well, let's see. Let's start at the very beginning (a very good place to
start... :)
Look at the name of the book: STEPS to Christ. Just the name alone sounds very works oriented. (My mother says it sounds very much like the 12-step program.) The name does not conjure up pictures of a omnipotent God reaching down to lost mankind and pulling them up to heaven. Rather, I see a sort of Jacob's ladder that the sinner must climb in order to reach heaven.

Many former SDAs question the authorship of this book; many claim it was actually written by her secretary. I find that point trivial. What I find disturbing is the 100+ pages of legalism
that is presented in this little book.

All that glitters is not gold.
All that sounds pious is not Gospel.

For example, how do we obtain the mercy of God? By believing in His Son, correct? Not according to this book. One must "work"--that is show some
kind of intrinsic action--in order to receive God's mercy.

"The conditions of obtaining mercy of God are simple and just and reasonable. The Lord does not require us to do some grievous thing in order
that we may have the forgiveness of sin. We need not make long and wearisome pilgrimages, or perform painful penances, to commend our souls to the God of heaven or to expiate our transgression; but he that confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy. "

Whatever happened to "Whosoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoseover believeth not is condemned already"? Somehow it is lost in this
text. We must:

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed." James 5:16. Confess your sins to God, who only can forgive them, and your faults to one another. If you have given offense to your friend or neighbor, you are to acknowledge your wrong, and it is his duty freely to forgive you. Then you are to seek the forgiveness of God, because the brother you have wounded is the property of God, and in injuring him you sinned against his Creator and Redeemer."

I know. You think that statement sounds wonderful. the way it is stated here, as the "method" of obtaining God's mercy is legalistic heresy. It may be a good thing to do, BUT WE CANNOT EARN GOD'S MERCY by ANY means. Except believing that the Lamb is worthy. This former perspective, pious as it may sound, is totally against the words of Christ Himself who repeatedly told us to believe in Him.

And there are "conditions" that must be met BEFORE we can EARN salvation, according to the author:

"Those who have not humbled their souls before God in acknowledging their guilt, have not yet fulfilled the first condition of acceptance. "

This is actually contradictory to much of
the previous chapter which states that we must not wait to be acceptable to "come to Christ." What a spiritual labyrinth the author tries to put us through, all the time obscuring the simple truth of the Gospel as stated by
Jesus Christ Himself: "Not everyone that says Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but those that do the will of the Father." And the "work of the Father is to believe on Him Whom He hath sent."

Another condition:
"If we have not experienced that repentance which is not to be repented of, and have not with true humiliation of soul and brokenness of spirit
confessed our sins, abhorring our iniquity, we have never truly sought for the forgiveness of sin; and if we have never sought, we have never found the peace of God. "

Have YOU met that condition to perfection? Do you abhor your iniquity, or are you defensive about your shortcomings?

And even the conditions have conditions:

"Confession of sin, whether public or private, should be heartfelt and freely expressed. It is not to be urged from the sinner. It is not to be
made in a flippant and careless way, or forced from those who have no realizing sense of the abhorrent character of sin. The confession that is
the outpouring of the inmost soul finds its way to the God of infinite pity."

"True confession is always of a specific character, and acknowledges particular sins. They may be of such a nature as to be brought before God only; they may be wrongs that should be confessed to individuals who have suffered injury through them; or they may be of a public character, and should then be as publicly confessed. But all confession should be definite
and to the point, acknowledging the very sins of which you are guilty."

You cannot simply confess, it must be done in a certain way. And even then, you cannot be too sure that you have been accepted as a candidate for God's mercy.

"Confession will not be acceptable to God without sincere repentance and reformation. There must be decided changes in the life; everything offensive
to God must be put away. This will be the result of genuine sorrow for sin."

This is the most offensive of statements to me. God will not even accept your confession if there are not decided changes in your live and EVERYTHING offensive to God has been put away.

There it is in black and white. If you have not put away all things offensive to God (like your very human nature itself) no need even bothering to confess. God will not accept it anyway.

"The WORK that we have to do on our part is plainly set before us: "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."

And when we have done these things, then MAYBE God will accept us. Heresy!
Roman Catholic doctrine! It is amazing to me that SDAs who speak so degradingly of the RCC stand hand in hand with them on the doctrine of salvation.

One has to have a magnifying glass to find any mention of our salvation by the merits of Christ's life and death. I think it is mentioned once or twice in passing. The rest of the book is filled with the hundreds of ways in which we are going to earn our salvation. When faith is mentioned (and it is barely mentioned) it is not the faith in Jesus Christ which is unto
salvation. It is faith in our works being prompted by the Holy Spirit.

"Yes, only believe that God is your helper. He wants to restore His moral image in man. As you draw near to Him with confession and repentance, He will draw near to you with mercy and forgiveness."

Whatever happend to believing in Jesus Christ as our Substitute and Surety, the Author and Finisher of our faith?

This precious little book NEVER uses the words of Christ Himself that say believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Only the first part
of John 3:16 is quoted: For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son. The last part of this text is frighteningly missing.

This is all I need to prove the merits of this little How-To-Earn-Your-Way-To-Heaven Book. I throw it out my spiritual window along with all other spiritual theories which are never
satisfied with the merits of our lovely Savior as being sufficient for our salvation, which relegates our salvation to "mere," and which glorify the beliver instead of the Wonderful Object of our faith and admiration.

I admonish any self-professed scholars of the Bible and defenders of true Protestantism, as SDAs claim to be, to take care lest you be blinded by pious-sounding cliches and rhetoric.
Take care not to fall into the web of having a form of godliness--looks good, sounds good--but denying the power--the fully saving, complete and
unrepeatable work of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Who saves us TO THE UTTERMOST. When will traditional SDAism take Christ at His word? When will they stop adding our pitiful "good works" to the perfection of the righteousness we receive by faith in Jesus? When will they stop saying, yes, Jesus died for us, but....? When will they stop trying to remove the focus from the Lamb of God and put it on the sinner? Until these things happen, they will never give Jesus Christ the all-sufficiency and central, upraised position that is due Him. One cannot focus on the believer and keep his/her eyes on Christ.


Just MHO,
Plain Patti
Lynn W
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti, Good pointed about the title of the book; how'd I miss that? Before you throw out your copy of STC, could you first print the page #s of those quotes so I can highlight them in my copy.
Just a list of the pages will do, I can take it from there.

Also, I'd like to add some in case anyone wants to highlight them in their books. "Righteousness is defined by the standard of God's holy law, as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai." p.61.

"The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been, - just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents, - perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness." p.62.

Then a statement every SDA should read, "We should not take the testimony of any man [but she didn't say woman] as to what the Scriptures teach, but should study the words of God for ourselves."

I know most of you would prefer to just throw out those Eg White books, but they do make good educational material, if only to warn others against joining.
Plain Patti
Posted on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Lynn.
I will have to look them up.
I have them notated somewhere. But I do not have a copy. The whole book is available online. I don't have the URL on me right now, but I will try and find that also.

In the meantime, here is probably the most blatant statement of legalism in all of Christendom, written by u-no-hoo.

"Without perfection of character no one can enter the pearly gates of the city of God,

(Aside--Notice she says no one can enter; not just no one will be translated.)

for if, with all our imperfections, we were permitted to enter that city, there would soon be in heaven a second rebellion. We must first be tried and chosen, and found faithful and true. Upon the purification of our character rests our only hope of eternal life." Manuscript Releases, 15:36; Sermons and Talks, 2:294

Our only hope rests on what according to this passage? On Jesus Christ and Him crucified? Hardly. Our only hope rests on our purification of character. I challenge you to find a more legalistic statement anywhere in Christendom.

I can only wonder how I could have been so blind.

All that glitters is not gold.
All that sounds pious and holy is not Gospel.

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