| Author |
Message |
Bob_2 (Bob_2)
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 10:14 am: |     |
Freeatlast, I agree.
Bob_2 |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 4:00 pm: | |
Adventists certainly do not have a corner on religious abuse and "form[s] of godliness". True Christ-followers are scattered everywhere, and true charlatans and also sincerely deceived people are everywhere. That's why I recommend visiting several churches before deciding which one to attend regularly. There really are some where, although there may be serious doctrinal perversions among the members, they won't be preached and taught.
Colleen |
Bob_2 (Bob_2)
| | Posted on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 5:26 pm: | |
Colleen, then why does this forum talk so much about Satanic involvement. I have found that a lot of people are in a walk relative to their salvation and Jesus Christ, they are not hand in hand with the Devil because they differ with us.
Bob_2 |
Loneviking (Loneviking)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 9:08 am: | |
You just don't get it Bob. The difference we have with SDA is not just a difference of opinion. The SDA church, officially holds to a different approach and view of Scripture than the rest of Christendom. Their view and approach is most like that of the Mormans and JW's. The SDA church teaches 'thought' inspiration instead of verbal; it teaches that there are 'errors' in the Word; it shows by it's teaching that the Word cannot be trusted to 'mean what it says and says what it means'; the SDA church clearly places the writings of EG White above the Word through such actions as voting in a resolution to emphasize the writings of EGW, while voting down a resolution to emphasize the Bible at the last GC Conference.
Look, there are two different types of cults. There are the dangerous, brain washing cults like Synanon, the Moonies etc., the Branch Davidians which don't last very long. These groups are so far out and so weird that they carry the seed of their own destruction within them.
Then, there are the long term, lifestlye cults like Mormons, JW's and SDA's. They have their own approach to the Word buttressed by extrabiblical writings, their own culture, their own diet---and all of it is in opposition to traditional Christian belief.
Bob, if you go back and study SDA church history, you will find that every major 'pillar' was formed to be completely opposite of what was (and is) taught in conservative churches then and now. The entire package of Adventism is what makes them a cult......................
Bill |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 1:25 pm: | |
Thank you Bill
Because I want the truth of Jesus Christ and nothing else. No nit picking at little obscure passages but the wonderful matchless grace of Jesus.
I am secure in the fact I will know what to answer one day when My Father in heaven says "Carol what did you do with my Son"?
I pray that for all of you. Carol |
Janice (Janice)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 2:59 pm: | |
Bob, I know you asked Colleen the question about Satan, but I wanted to say this about Satanism.
If you study "last day" issues, you will understand that life itself is likened to a "game" of sorts. It was, it is, and it will always be "God vs. Satan".
Since Satan is the "father of ALL lies" and God is our heavenly father that sent us his son to die in our place in order to pay that sin debt, then it shouldn't be hard at all for the true child of God (indwelt with the Holy Spirit) to see that EVERYTHING shows us the personhood of Satan behind EVERY scheme within every scenario of life. Not to say that we should see a demon being every bush, but we have the Bible as our instruction book and, as in football where the object is to CARRY the ball over the goal line, in the game of life, the devil's goal is to take your soul over the goal line and straight into hell. His stratedgy is: DECEPTION!!!
Satan has a fallen nature due to the fact that iniquity and rebellion were found in him, his arrogance cost him probably the highest position in God's army and he managed to deceive a third of the angelic host and it got them cast down to this earth with him.
Although Satan does not possess the omni traits of the Godhead, he does, for a fact, have a third of the angels who go about doing his bidding and their job is to infiltrate this world just like Satan infiltrated the garden of Eden and it cost our original father and mother of creation to be cast out of the garden, he is still trying to cost each of us our "garden of Eden" that is eternal with God in the heavenlies.
It is a war of sorts, and God gave us ALL the weapons that we need to fight Satan with. The Bible is our instruction book and the Holy Spirit is our coach. The Holy Spirit can be grieved though and open sin severs our conscious from listening to the Holy Spirit. In the Word, we are also told that God's people "perish" for "lack of knowledge" and I truly believe that Colleen has helped develop this web site for each of us that visit here to gain knowledge and insight into the strategies of Satan and his team-mates that oppose God's children.
Also, we are told that where two or more are gathered together, there the Spirit is with us. I have never loved my computer so much as when I started coming to this forum. I was initially hurt at some of the things that I felt attacked with in the beginning of my correspondence here and was even offended at some of the things that were addressed to me in the forum. I even stopped my input for a week and even sent an e-mail to my pastor to tell him that I wasn't going to "waste" my time in this forum. But then God once again showed me Satan, it is all about Satan, he wants to discourage us, make us turn on one another. Just like in a war--Satan's strategy is to "divide and conquer". I have sat and listened to so many in this forum speak about "organized" religion and seeking for that "perfect" church, and it makes me want to just shake people when I hear them and their sad stories and see that they are still victims of the devil because they haven't allowed themselves to grow and seek further truth or, the opposite, find fault with every thing considered "organized" religion. They have been enlightened just enough to see SDA for what it is and many that visit the forum can relate because they have come out of other cults such as JWs and LDSs but, for the most part, it is like these people are wondering about with "clean but empty houses" like the man in scripture that had the demon cast out of him by Jesus himself and was delightened at the cleanliness within but didn't refill his heart and mind with Godly thoughts and truth. I can see that so many people are trying to remodel their house, so to speak, but shopping at the wrong stores and worse than that, they don't even try to prepare a "shopping list" for when they do go searching. I have stated in many posts that there are many, many books and brochures that have been prepared that can help lead us all find a wonderful spirit-filled church that does still teach the basic fundamentals of the faith, but so many have been led out of one lie and straight into another lie.
It would appear that many are taking the simplicity of the gospel to the other extreme, and what I mean is this--too many seem to think that once they have their salvation in hand, they have it all, we do have it all as far as eternal security goes, but while we are still this side of glory, we still do battle with Satan on a daily basis and even more so do WE battle with him because he knows that he no longer has our souls, but I am sure that most of you will notice that everytime we find joy, Satan is right there to snatch it out of our hands. He uses "every" weapon available to him and he is relentless in his pursuit to rob us Christians, we are saved but as far as this life goes, we can still feel defeated, we can still get depressed, we can still claim salvation but live in misery for the rest of our lives if we don't get into God's word and study, study, study. This is why I enjoy this forum so much, it is because we all get together and "share" what God has shown us. It is the sharing, that stems from a true love of the brethren that encourages us to keep going on and our encouragement to one another in turn helps us to realize that we must never give up, if we didn't love our lost loved ones, those trapped in various cults, we wouldn't even be here tapping away at these keys in the first place.
As for myself, I am very sick and have been in bed all morning while my husband has been visiting with his daughter in the living room, playing pool and watching TV. I realize that we are two different individuals both with common as well as some uncommon interests (sewing and crafts vs. hunting, fishing, etc.)but above all else, we are our best friend and appreciate eachother's individualism. We share a common faith and share a love and concern for our fellow man and Mike knows that when I sit at this computer that I am "serving" God in my own way. He feels good that I feel good in sharing the gospel with everyone here. We both love to share our thoughts and prayers with each other and never take for granted that it was God almighty that we finally slowed down and asked for his guidance that got us together after all these years in the first place. We have been through so much in the five years that we have been together and we know that our lives apart were only preparing us for the greatest love of all that God was waiting to give us both if we would just stop and ask him for what HE wanted for us and quit looking for love in all the wrong places as the song goes.
God led us to each other and he led us to our church, and right now our church is under attack from Satan, even our denominational affiliation has come under attack in this forum, our preacher has had two of his three children get a divorce this past year and it is tearing them apart just seeing what it is doing to their grandchildren and to see a child go through divorce is heart-wrenching in itself, it is like a death, those ties are buried but we must go on. All of this has opened a door for malicious gossip to rear its ugly head and many have left the church as a result of all the pressure with all the diffences of opinion. It is just like I said here, it is a game where Satan uses his "divide and conquer" strategies and I know from reading the scriptures that we are in the last days because God said that our enemies would be that of our "own" household. I also believe that this means more than mere "flesh and blood ties" too because, notice, our church family is referred to as "brothers and sisters".
I really believe that Satan does his BEST work when he comes into a church and tears it up, and will always believe that Satan is behind ALL the deceptions within the SDA church, and whether or not EGW was a cohert with the devil or merely a pawn of Satan, is anyone's guess. But to state it for a fact, that would be judging. I guess I am also judging when I fret so much over whether or not my SDA mother and sister are "really" saved or not. But the bottom line is that whether or not they are saved and have eternal security is not really the issue at this time. (That will be revealed in due time)
The issue now is that my family isn't a family anymore and a split family cannot "help" one another when we are being beaten down by Satan and his army of demons. The Bible says that we are to MARK those that cause divisions between us, but the SDAs have taken that statement to the extreme by branding ALL christians that they can't conform to their way of thinking. I will repeat, this is demonic (all about Satan VS. God)
I have had to rely on my church family for support these last few years during the sickness and loss of family members because my own family has no idea of what is going on in my family nor do I their's for that matter. It hurts more than the adults involved too because, it is like I have read from so many of the posts, when children are being brought up in this mess called SDA, it can't help but warp their perception of what salvation and life itself are all about. My sister has even told me that she has her children "praying" for we, I can't help but wonder what those prayers are for. Are my nieces being taught that I am going to hell? Are they taught that I am antichrist? Are they taught that they are saved and sealed by keeping Sabbath? Is the Sabbath issue the true gospel that we are commanded to give to a lost and dying world? I think not and I know for a fact that it isn't!
I was told that my niece got saved last year, and if it had been in any other denominational affiliation, I may have shouted hallelujah, but in the SDAs--what does getting saved really mean?
I haven't spoken to my youngest sister in almost three years, but she is into the world more so than religion, so that it another kind of pain, I do fear for her soul, but with my mother and sister, no pain can ever describe how it feels to have a mother die and still know that she is really physically alive and just doesn't want to grieve herself over the failure of her little girl who has completely lost it in the grips of the antichrist because I will live and die as a Baptist!!!
It hurts me too when I see such a knowledgable sister that has comforted me during my "rough" times of separation and divorce and problems with a "drug addict" son with such wonderful words of encouragement from God's word written with such inspiration to turn around and have such "venom" spew in my face from the many lies that she has been trying to feed me from the SDAs. It reminds me of the scripture that asks "can a well spring forth both bitter and sweet?" The answer is YES when it comes to the SDA doctrines, but scripture says that is SHOULDN'T be like that. Afterall, I will say again that a double-minded man is unstable is ALL his ways.
In my studies of end-times as prophecied in God's word, I see times only getting worse, and I see that we are warned of such things that are all around us at this present time. We are admonished to study (II Timothy 2:15) and also are told that All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (II Timothy 3:16) If we keep those two thoughts in mind, we will be less likely to be taking scripture text out of context, praying is also necessary when studying, we should always let the Holy Spirit show us the five Ws of any text--who it is speaking to, what it is saying, when in history is it speaking, where the story is in history (its relationship to us) and why it is written down in God's word.
Ecc 3:1 To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Again, I will say that it is all about the devil and his wicked deceptions that keep a child of God from living in the joy of his/her salvation. I would think that everyone here would agree that if all scripture was given in order to help a child of God grow and live a life worthy of the "vocation" for which we are called then we should ALL be reading this following verse of scripture and should really take hold of the seriousness of the statement, and the truth that I speak of is this one:
2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Again I say that whether a person is indwelt by Satan or merely influenced by a demon, the DAMAGE is done by listening to their lies and taking them for gospel truths, and unless we fill our hearts and minds with God's truth, we will be deceived over and over and over again. We must study and put on our armour and even the verse of scripture that gives us the list of the full armour that we are to put on, why does God tell us to put on our armour? Here is the answer again: Eph 6:16 wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Who is the wicked one that we are warned against over and over in the scriptures? SATAN! Satan walked, talked, lived with, and knew the Godhead and was leader of the choir that praised God continously, but instead of marveling in that love, he chose to rebel against God and now that he knows that he is in the final quarter of the game, as it were, he is putting in his "best" team members and you will see it more and more with each day that brings us one step closer to eternity and the end of this age as we know it.
I believe that with all our modern technology that we can truly be the most informed people in history, but if you study the word, throughout history man has gained, gained, and gained knowledge and towards the end-we will once again be just like ancient Babylon when it fell. If you study about Babylon, look at all the similarities between them and how we are living today.
Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
(English is the second language of most nations today. Every item that is purchased now has a "universal" product code so that it can be sold on a "universal" basis.)
Look at what the scientist are doing today with their cloning technology. Look at the study tools that we have available through the computer. Look at the world travel, we are the "jet setters" of the day. How about the 600 or so satellites that we have in our galaxy that makes communications instantaneous!
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
This is my opinion here. I believe that Satan has petitioned God like he did with Job and has asked to test all of God's children. His main tool in this forum is the confusion that is brought about when so many choose to "read between the lines". Too many true children of God are having their language confused today because it is so very hard to read into text what one person is trying to get across. Much of the translation of the original intent is lost because we can't hear the expression of a voice, we can't see the tears behind the words. We can't imagine how heart wrenching it is for some of us to "bear our souls" like we do here. This is just one more battlefield that Satan wants to play on and we should be crying out with each post, "lookout, lookout, he is behind you, he is beside you, he and his demons ARE everywhere and don't forget it for one moment or you will find yourself in another one of Satan's snares.
I, for one, will always encourage all to read the 33 chapter of Ezekiel and ask everyone of you to be on guard, and I promise that I will try to see you and your Godly warnings from now on, instead of tucking tail and running when you are only trying to teach me.
Please forgive me, all of you, if I have seemed dominating in anything that I have said during the time that I have joined this group.
I do have a lot to say as you can tell from my LONG posts, but be be patient with me as I try to give my two cents worth. I do hope that it is worth more than that, by the way, because your insight that I have gained from my visits here is certainly priceless. Please keep praying for me that my sister will come to this web site and let God show her the truth of what is found in any cult that adds to or takes from the word of God.
Yours in Christ,
Janice |
Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 7:34 pm: | |
Janice,
My prayers are going up to God for your family and your household.
Thank you for your post that states things so clearly! I say "amen."
your sister IN Christ, Jesus.
Denise |
Charlene_2 (Charlene_2)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 8:17 pm: | |
Janice,
Only the Holy Ghost's discernment will show those, who are willing, to be open to him. However, that does not mean that we can't plant seeds of truth and love to them. Keep up the faith. Do not get discouraged. Christ is there, just waiting to be answered (at the door). Remember He is a gentleman.
Yours in Christ,
Charlene |
Pheeki (Pheeki)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 1:36 pm: | |
WHAT WAS I WITHOUT CHRIST?
Ungodly-------------------------------------Romans 5:6
A sinner---------------------------------------Romans 5:8
God's enemy------------------------------------Romans 5:10
Condemned already------------------------------Romans 5:18
Under penalty of death-------------------------Romans 6:23
Unable to please God---------------------------Romans 8:8
Cursed-----------------------------------------Galatians 3:10
Dead in sin------------------------------------Ephesians 2:1
WHAT AM I IN CHRIST?
Crucified with Him-----------------------------Galatians 2:20
Buried with Him--------------------------------------------Colossians 2:12
Risen with Him--------------------------------------------Colossians 2:12
Alive with Him--------------------------------------------Colossians 2:13
Ascended with Him--------------------------------------------Ephesians 2:6
Seated in heaven with
Him--------------------------------------------Ephesians 2:6
Joint-heir with Him--------------------------------------------Romans 8:17
Indwelt by the Father-----------------------------------------Ephesians 4:6
Indwelt by the Son--------------------------------------------Colossians
1:27
Indwelt by the Holy Spirit-----------------------------------------
1 Corinthians 3:16
A saint beloved of God--------------------------------------------Romans 1:7
Dead to sin------------------------------------Romans 6:2-11
Under grace------------------------------------Romans 6:14
Eternal----------------------------------------Romans 6:23
Forever free of God's condemnation-------------Romans 8:1, 34
A child of God---------------------------------Romans 8:14
Foreknown and foreordained by God--------------Romans 8:29
Called, justified, and glorified by God--------Romans 8:30
Interceded for by Christ-----------------------Romans 8:34
More than a conqueror through Christ-----------Romans 8:37
Inseparable from God---------------------------Romans 8:39
In the fellowship of Christ--------------------
1 Corinthians 1:9
The temple of God------------------------------
1 Corinthians 3:16
Washed and sanctified--------------------------
1 Corinthians 6:11
A member of the very Body of Christ------------
1 Corinthians 12:27
Victorious in Christ---------------------------
1 Corinthians 15:57
Triumphant in Christ---------------------------
2 Corinthians 2:14
An entirely new creature-----------------------
2 Corinthians 5:17
Reconciled to God through Christ---------------
2 Corinthians 5:18
An ambassador for Christ-----------------------
2 Corinthians 5:20
The righteousness of God in Christ-------------
2 Corinthians 5:21
Rich------------------------------------------
2 Corinthians 8:9
Redeemed from the curse of the Law-------------Galatians 3:13
Adopted by God---------------------------------Galatians 4:5
Free-------------------------------------------Galatians 5:1
Called unto liberty----------------------------Galatians 5:13
Blessed----------------------------------------Ephesians 1:3
Chosen, holy, and unblamable-------------------Ephesians 1:4
Accepted---------------------------------------Ephesians 1:6
Sealed by the Holy Spirit----------------------Ephesians 1:13
Saved by His grace alone, no works-------------Ephesians 2:8
The workmanship of God-------------------------Ephesians 2:10
A fellowcitizen--------------------------------Ephesians 2:19
Delivered from the power of
darkness---------------------------------------Colossians 1:13
Brought into the Kingdom of
Christ-----------------------------------------Colossians 1:13
Complete in Christ-----------------------------Colossians 2:10
Forgiven all trespasses------------------------Colossians 2:13
Elect of God-----------------------------------Colossians 3:12
Delivered from the wrath to come---------------
1 Thess 1:10
Not appointed to wrath-------------------------
1 Thess 5:9
SAVED and SAFE in Christ before time itself----
2 Timothy 1:9
WHAT DO I NOW HAVE?
Peace with God---------------------------------Romans 5:1
Received atonement-----------------------------Romans 5:11
Ministry and Word of reconciliation------------
2 Cor 5:14-21
Redemption through His blood-------------------Ephesians 1:7
The forgiveness of trespasses------------------Ephesians 1:7
The Holy Spirit, downpayment of my salvation
and proof I belong to God----------------------Ephesians 1:14
Hope laid up in heaven-------------------------Colossians 1:5
A holy calling---------------------------------
2 Timothy 1:9
WHAT WILL I BE?
Confirmed unto the end-------------------------
1 Corinthians 1:8
Changed in the twinkling of an eye
as mortal puts on immortality------------------
1 Cor 15:52-53
Caught up to meet the Lord in the air,
to be with Him forever-------------------------
1 Thess 4:17
Avenged by God Himself-------------------------
2 Thess 1:6
WHAT IS CHRIST TO ME?
My wisdom--------------------------------------
1 Cor 1:30
My righteousness-------------------------------
1 Corinthians 1:30
My sanctification------------------------------
1 Corinthians 1:30
My redemption----------------------------------
1 Corinthians 1:30
My victory-------------------------------------
1 Corinthians 15:57
My peace---------------------------------------Ephesians 2:14
My hope----------------------------------------Colossians 1:27
My completion----------------------------------Colossians 2:10
MY LIFE----------------------------------------Colossians 3:4
ALL OF THIS is God's description of those who trust in Christ's life, death,
and resurrection in our place, on our behalf, for our sins. If you are in
Christ, you ALREADY have far greater blessings than Jabez could even dream
of!
I sent this to my SDA preacher brother and he replied that Jabez had these available to him also. Can you follow his logic? I think he is discounting Christ's sacrifice and if Jabez could have all of this Christ died in vain! What do you think? |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 5:15 pm: | |
Jabez had all of these available to him only by faith. Christ's completion, redemption, and remission of sins, the outpouring of the indwelling Holy Spirit, the knowledge of our eternity with Christ which begins when we accept him and never endsónone of these were facts or were even really understood in Jabez's time. He had God, and he had faith in God's promisesówhich, by the way, while certain and secure, did not reveal the details of their fulfillmentóbut he did not have the new birth and all those things the new birth brings.
Adventists do not, as a whole, understand the magnitude and impact of the new birth. They really are stuck believing that OT believers in God are in much the same condition as NT believers. they know the words and the theories of new birth and the church, but they don't really understand what that means.
Saying Jabez had all this available to him is another way, I believe, of saying that the old and new covenants are really the same thing, just different experessions of that same thing. That's what Adventists teach.
Praising God for a new reality,
Colleen |
Pheeki (Pheeki)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 7:54 am: | |
I think you are correct in your assessment. I feel by the statement he made that the full realization of what Jesus has done is lost on him. If what he is saying is true, then Jesus died in vain. Of course I don't believe it for a minute that Jabez had all that available to him...I think where he was going with that is if Jabez kept the Law he would receive the blessings?!?! I think he feels like if we keep the Law we are entitled to the blessings too.
My daughter was given a children's version of the Great Controversy by my sister-in-law. It has children in each difficult period of history who faced persecution...french revolution, roman times, etc. Then it goes to the time period of William Miller and talks about how we should keep the Sabbath because Jesus never said not to. Then in the closing page it talks about how Wm. Miller was wrong about the dates and he never accepted the Sabbath. (Like see how wrong he was about everything, was the attitude.)
I really just want to scream. |
Another_Carol (Another_Carol)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 1:27 pm: | |
To anyone who would venture a guess:
Then it goes to the time period of William Miller and talks about how we should keep the Sabbath because Jesus never said not to. Then in the closing page it talks about how Wm. Miller was wrong about the dates and he never accepted the Sabbath.
What do you (anyone) think is trying to be said here?
Should we try and decide what is being said here?
Should we just let it pass and hope that those who don't know the Lord and Saviour like we know him will not be seduceded by it?
What do you think God wants us to do with it, especially when it is presented to our families of whom we feel we have an obligation to teach truth?
If someone could please answer these questions for me according to the word of God then I would be most pleased.
I want most desperately want to do the will of God but once I make that statement I know what the will of God is and that is to know His Son and believe He sent His Son to pay the price for me and you and everyone else on the face of this planet and then I cannot sit idlely (sp) by and watch person's I love be deceived.
May we see truth in the eyes of those we love, Carol |
Janice (Janice)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 3:21 pm: | |
Carol, That is what I have been saying all along, why is it so hard for SDAs to see the lies found in all of EGW's writings? I guess what makes it so much harder for me and my family is the fact that my family supposedly all got saved while attending Baptist churches, but now they have "fallen from grace" and before I say anything else, I am not saying they lost their salvation, but I am saying that God really is going to deal with those who heard the simple gospel preached and now are falling back into the OT way of doing things. I just finished the book of Acts and have now started reading the book of Romans, and I will never understand why anyone would ever want to fall back and work and believe me it is work when you get out there and spend time reading labels on every can or package in a grocery store and it is hard work to rush around preparing something to eat and putting it in the fridge the night before sabbath so you won't have to work that day.
It is also a very painful thing to me to go to church and have such a good time in the Lord on Sunday and then go out to eat and see others who came from various churches in the area and all are so pleasant to you and know that your own flesh and blood family refuses fellowship with the brethren and even to the point of disowning you, this pain will never cease until the Lord takes me out of this world.
It hurts me too to know that my mother is 400 miles away from all of her sisters and her brother and her other grandchildren, the only family that she has now is the SDAs and my SDA sister, her SDA husband, and two SDA daughters are the only ones that ever visit her.
Our relationship has tetered down to small talk, how truly sad when we can't open our hearts up to one another like we do here in the forum. I even got my mother a quick cam for her computer and installed it and everything so that we could get online together with the buddy phone and talk to one another but she sold her computer and gave the camera to my sister, or so I guess, anyway, it isn't being sent my way for sure and both my sisters have computers but the last letter sent from my alcoholic sister was telling me to leave her the F### alone and take my prayers to H### and take my church family with me and stated that I ought to be ashamed of myself for all the junk and nonsense that I have swamped my family with and how that our mother and sister were "saints" with all the things that THEY were DOING, no one mentioned whether they were saved or not even though the SDA sister began her last letter with "Jesus is my best friend" just before she launched the attack on me, and was suggesting that I seek professional counseling became of my insistance in trying to make precious EGW look bad and warning me to stop before something serious happened to me from God. She even suggested that I must not have the Holy Spirit in me because I had not been successful in changing her mind, now is that pride speaking or what? When we all indwelt with the Holy Spirit and ask for his help to gain wisdom, he promises to give it to us liberally and also states that without him-you just won't comprehend the word anyway, so, how deluded can the SDAs get?
I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like for those having been raised with the gospel according to EGW, but I can see how my nieces are being raised with the sheltered home schooling and the diets, etc. and it hurts me too that my sister is telling her girls that "I" am the one that needs praying for instead of telling them that they all need to get together and check out the accusations and search the scriptures for themselves. All I ever asked her to do was try the spirits to see if they be of God and warned her of what God said about the devil and his demons "looking" good but.....
I gave this web site to my sister along with two or three others to check out the facts and mentioned that I would be praying for her enlightenment and stated that it would be great if she would let God open her eyes to truth and then even greater if she allowed herself to be used by God to lead other SDAs to that truth, I made mention that she could even get a "soul-winner's crown" and the letter came back two weeks later with return to sender written on it by my sister's own hand, so, I do believe that she read the letter but the devil really has her deceived, and she would rather live a lie and deny a relationship with me that repent of all the damage that she has done, I all but begged her on several occasions to just say "I'm sorry" or "I love you" but gee, I guess it just wasn't meant to be, but I did tell her that Romans 8:28 was still in the book and that all of her fanaticism have only served to make me stronger by searching my Bible more and more for the precious gems of truth, amen!!!
Sorry folks, no need to keep rehashing, God knows my heart and he knows if my family was saved, and if they weren't, well, he still knows if they will or not be before it is too late, and I have his word on it that I shall receive a reward for bringing them to rememberance whether they accept it or not. I am sorry for getting off on another train of thought, it just gets overwhelming sometimes to think about it.
I can't even send my mother some of the discussion booklets that I have found that explain exactly what is wrong with her and why she is so depressed. For anyone that has loved ones battling depression, www.discoveryseries.com has some great booklets "Dealing With Depression" and "When We Don't Measure Up" and those two little books spoke volumes about my situation, unfortunately on the last page of the book on depression, it stated that most depressed people will not appreciate ANY efforts to help them, go figure? Is the devil alive and well or what?
Janice |
Sabra (Sabra)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 7:45 pm: | |
Janice,
I'm in the small talk too with my family. You are not alone but I am positive that your life and God's favor on your life and your peace is what will get to them more than anything. You just have to leave them alone and go on your way and praise God you aren't there with them.
They are so astounded that this lost little 'sunday keeper' (though I don't 'keep' any day) is sitting up here not working doing better than any of them. I don't want to give the impression that I think I'm better, I do not, but I am blessed! If I was living in a tent I'd be just as happy and I know God knows that.
Grown ups can do what they want but I do hate that life for your nieces and nephews, it's a terrible life. Bless their hearts, all you can do is pray and really just not bring it up at all, it does no good. Anytime you talk you just say you are GREAT, everything is WONDERFUL and let them ask. |
Janice (Janice)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 12:02 am: | |
Sabra, I know everyday more and more what "comfort ye with these words" really means. Never did I think that a time would come when my family would be so torn and in light of the fact of what tore us apart is why I keep having my little pity parties.
I just have to learn to see the devil for what he is: the father of all lies, the deceiver, the destroyer, the rebellious one, and his influence is so subtle that God plainly give us our battle plan. Number one, the battle is not ours; two, we are only pilgrims here; three, we are given the FULL armour of God; and four, we have a better home waiting for us. On the brighter side, God is LONG-suffering and NOT willing for ANY to perish.
Looking forward to that day when this strife is over, amen.
Here is a thought for you as you begin this day that God has blessed us with:
God has three basic reasons for providing us with a Bible:
That we may know who the one true God is: the Father. . . . the Son. . . . and the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:18-20; John 14:16-17; 16:13-15; I John 5:7].
That we may know what God expects of us and how to be prepared for eternity: The Holy Scriptures (Old Testament) . . . are able to make you wise unto salvation. . . . All Scripture is . . . profitable . . . unto all good works [II Timothy 3:15-17].
Our responsibility to provide this Good News to the world. Jesus said: Go . . . teach all nations . . . to observe all things [Matthew 28:19-20].
Janice |
Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 1:28 am: | |
"Looking forward to that day when this strife is over, amen."
AMEN and AMEN!
Denise Gilmore |
Colleentinker (Colleentinker)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 12:36 pm: | |
Carol, I just want to mention your questions above and also your comments about your family, Janice. I have often wondered the same things. What do we say? When do we point out inconsistencies? How do we confront people with their deception?
I've come up with no hard-and-fast answers, but I have concluded this: if a person is unwilling to hear the truth, stop insisting they hear it. I have had to come to this conclusion with some of my own family. This decision is not only about religion but about other life issues as well. When a person is committed to his or her own misperception of reality, there's absolutely nothing we can do to make them see. Any amount of insistence and confrontation that we do only entrenches animosity between us.
I have had to learn to ask God to help me do a couple of things: first, to help me know the truth and to help me to see how I might be deceived or offensive in my relationship; second, to show me how he wants me to relate to the difficult people according to HIS will; adn third, to deal with the other person(s) and to send the Holy Spirit to confront them and deal with them to bring them to the truth.
Then I have toóhere's the hard partóLEAVE THEM ALONE. I can be polite and receptive and answer questions when asked and be available, but I must refuse to insist that they listen to me present them with truth.
Of course we have an obligation to tell them the truth, but when they refuse to accept it and insist on arguing, it's hopeless to continue. We only make things worse. And, I've discovered, sometimes my own insistence and intensity make them resist what I have to say.
I'm having to learn to leave my family and loved ones in God's hands, completely letting go of my own desire to make them see and change. I have to be willing to let them think whatever they want to think even if it means letting distance come between us and allowing them to completely misunderstand me. God cares even more than we do about their salvation and about their freedom. I have to trust him to deal with them and release them to Him.
My job is to pray for them, speak about the issues only when they desire to hear me, be avilable and loving, and trust God to fill the emptiness the distance between me and my loved ones creates as well as trust God to deal with my "stubborn" loved one.
I've also had to learn to ask God to show me and remove arrogance and ego in me. It's not gone yet, but I know that He is working on these things in me.
Praise God that he is bigger than the unsolvable stand-offs among family members, and praise God that he loves us and them through it all!
Colleen |
Doc (Doc)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 1:43 pm: | |
That is really good advice Colleen!
In my very limited experience of taking to people involved in (sorry to use the C word) cults - Mormons and JWs mainly, I have found there is no way I could convince them, no matter how good the arguments presented.
When my best friend and fellow-elder in the church here finished his Adventist college course, he was pretty sure they were right. I then looked into what they actually believed (because he would not tell me properly), was rather shocked, and then confronted it, and so we just ended up arguing, and unfortuately, we are both stubborn :-)
After it almost ruined our friendship and almost broke up the ministry team, I believe God told me to just leave it alone, and concentrate on rebuilding the friendship. I also continued to pray for him. He did not teach Adventism in the church anyway - he deliberately avoided the difficult areas.
He first decided not to leave and join the Adventist church, and after about six months, admitted he was totally confused. We were then able to examine the various points together and sort it out.
Of course, the advantage was, he was really rather dramatically saved at the age of 16, so the Adventist experience was just a temporary set back, but I must say it was rather scary at the time.
I now have to admit, I still have a Mormon cousin and a JW brother, but they live in America and England respectively, whilst I live in Hungary, so we don't have much contact!
Keep up the good work!
Doc |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 4:24 pm: | |
Dear Ones on this Forum, Yes, it is wise to know when to butt out. Since my mother and my cousin have learned that I generally attend a local Lutheran congreation I have learned to KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT! However both of them do not do the same towards me. My mom actualy had the guile to ask me if I was taking lessons in how to pursucate Sabbath-keepers so when the Sunday laws get enforced in the last days so I can partisipate in the pursucrution. I just told her there are only one group of people on this entire planet that knows abot the impending Sunday laws and that group is the SDA's. I old her no Christian who attends church on Sunday has ever heard of such a thing unless they used to be SDA themselves. WEll, that ended that conversation, at least for now. Doc, I have numerous in-laws who are JW. They, too can be a bit much. For instance, recently we were at an in-laws home and she began telling my son that Jesus did not be resurrected as a human but rather as a spirit nd that Jesus is a spirit in heaven now and that the spirit of Jesus is with Jehovah. It was really bent. |
Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:10 pm: | |
For me and family or people that I know quite well. Praying is the best thing in my opinion for God to open their eyes and hearts.
Just a few years ago, and it's logged on this forum in the archives somewhere, I was fighting and trying to make others see what was so easy for me to see.
Finally, the light dawned but here's the surprise, it dawned on me! I cannot make someone see something, only the Holy Spirit can open someones eyes and hearts to the Truth of what God has to say.
Well, this sure took the pressure off of me but more than that, it took the pressure off of those that I was so intent on convincing. So I pray alot and some amazing things happen when we pray. God is Mighty and He wishes for none to perish.
Putting my trust in God's hands works a whole lot better than arguing with people.
Infact, when I first discovered alot of the Truths that I now know, I knew for a fact that it was God that had opened my eyes, not all the many in my life that had tried so hard to make me see. Infact, if anything, I ran from those folks. And yet they were trying to help me.
But until God opens our hearts and eyes, we can't see anything nomatter how many people show us right out of the Bible.
At least this is the way it is appearing to work as I watch God at work.
As scrambled as my brain is this week, I'm praying that this post made some sense.
Prayer is powerful and I have to pray, then trust God that He heard my prayer and will do His will in whatever situation I'm in.
I'm also praying that this is the right thread..::chuckle::....now you see how lost a person can get at times. Ah well, this is me with all my flaws to behold.
Blessings to all in Christ Jesus!
Denise |
Susan_2 (Susan_2)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 7:14 pm: | |
I attended a Bible study at the church last evening and I learned something that was totally new to me and I will share it here. Someone asked how come we don´t observe the bold miracles anymore that the perople wittnessed while Jesus was on earth. The pastor gave the best explanation I have ever heard. He told us that in the books of Matthew, Mark and Luke these acts are called ¨miracles¨but in the book of John they are called ¨signs¨. Then we are to go back to the book of Isiah and we can read the list of signs that The True One, The Messiah, The Christ, The Called One will do that will prove he is the one told of in prophecy. That in the book of Isiah it says the Messiah will cause the deaf to hear, He will cause the lame to walk, He will drive out demons from those possed by evil spirits, He will cause the blind to see, He will raise the dead. I think there was several nor but I can´t think of them all right now. Anyway, Jesus did all of this and it was to prove without any doubt that He is the fortold Saviour. I think that is one of the most profound things I have ever learned. I never heard anything like that in a sda church. I don´t think the sda church has this understanding, if they do then I have never heard it. It was like the puzzle pieces falling together. It just made such sense. |
|
