| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Sherry, Many Christians world wide are legalistic. When you have had that type of thing hit over your head from the legalist mind set, it is very repulsive. I can remember getting a picture of Jesus though just that kind of thing. All the records are there, now. You have to turn your ways around and stop getting those kinds of things written against you. On the other hand. If you that told that, like you indicated, from the grace mind set, it can effect you way different. Bottom line. There is NO LIST OR CARDS! The list was wiped out at Calvary! Praise God for that! Maryann | ||
| sherry |
To some degree though, it is your choice to view that story in the negative. For me it is a positive - it beats the heck out of the egwhite dogma that made me afraid if I missed confessing one sin, I was damned. That story shows Him covering all the filth....you don't see this man pleading and begging and rehearsing every sin to make sure it is atoned for. Not at all. I see it's beauty in the story because of my past and because I chose to. | ||
| sherry |
To some degree though, it is your choice to view that story in the negative. For me it is a positive - it beats the heck out of the egwhite dogma that made me afraid if I missed confessing one sin, I was damned. That story shows Him covering all the filth....you don't see this man pleading and begging and rehearsing every sin to make sure it is atoned for. Not at all. I see it's beauty in the story because of my past and because I chose to. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Sherry, This is what is so wonderful about being in the family of God. We have, within guidelines, the right to interpretation. There are so many factors from how we were brought up on how we view things. You have contributed so greatly to this Forum and like everyone else at one time or another, don't see things the same way as everyone else. Ain't that a great freedom in Christ? ;-)))) Maryann | ||
| Allenette |
Well, you should see the fwd's that came along with that email...I would agree that it is some sort of inspirational yakkity yak that's making the rounds...but I assure you it DID come from a whole lot of SDA's prior to my mom getting it and passing it on to me, for whatever unknown reason ;-) why she thought it would do me any good is beyond me ggg. I just finished reading some other former's reactions to the IJ on another website and it reminded me of that email, except that if my memory doesnt fail me, along with Jesus supposedly having access to my private files (computerese), now all the "saints" are supposed to review my mistakes for a 1000 years to see why I was such a hopeless bada** and couldnt make it past the pearly gates? It was late when I posted and thought I'd make this a pt 1 pt 2 sort of posting. So this is pt 2 Allenette, the token agnostic to be convinced on here. Be forewarned, the prize to be won is pretty pitiful :-)))) | ||
| Max |
Allenette, Have you ever read Jesus parable of the ninety nine not-lost sheep? You are not pitiful. And you are not to be convinced. Just stop fighting the One who really loves you. Under real grace alone, Max | ||
| Lari Mobley |
Allenette, Thought I'd respond to your last post about being the "token agnostic" because I can certainly relate. I'm a "lurker" here on the FAF forum, and I attend the FAF Bible study on Friday nights. For years after leaving Adventism I considered myself an "apathist." Unlike atheists, who don't believe in a god, and agnostics, who don't know...I decided that I frankly didn't care. Yes, you could say I was bitter! I still have lingering questions, and there are many things that don't quite make sense to me. But it was after I read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel that I did become convinced of one fact--Jesus Christ is God. And he did die for my sins. I have salvation because I accepted him many years ago, back when I was still an Adventist. I know that I have been saved since then, and I know that it was by grace alone because I certainly didn't and do not deserve it. I also know that God is real because of the changes in my life during the past year when I came back to a relationship with Him. I don't mean changes like things working out better for me financially or anything like that, but changes in my attitude, my heart and an inner peace I never experienced before. So here's praying for you, and thanking Him for grace. There's hope for me, the "bitter one," and I know there's hope and grace for you, too. Lari Mobley | ||
| Patti |
Lari wrote: I still have lingering questions, and there are many things that don't quite make sense to me. But it was after I read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel that I did become convinced of one fact--Jesus Christ is God. And he did die for my sins. I have salvation because I accepted him many years ago, back when I was still an Adventist. Patti: You know, Lari, coming out of SDAism, it is hard to adjust to: 1. leaving our salvation in God's hands, and 2. not knowing all the answers. Hang on to your faith! You are right. The result is the peace that passes understanding. You are right with God! Not because of anything in you, but because of Jesus Christ. And we don't need to know everything; we just need to know Jesus. God bless you and keep you in His peace, Patti | ||
| Allenette |
MaX: gggg the reference to the prize was for the hopefully not so far off removed from reality public radio programs who promote their publically funded programs with "pitiful underfunded prizes" (PUP's) for those who attempt to answer the questions posed on their programs. mea culpa if I assumed that the posters on here would have that exposure. But...its funny how many folks want to save me anyhoo..... | ||
| Max |
Allenette, But don't you see? It's not that I want to save you. It's that God has already saved you. Right now it seems that it his will for you not to see this truth. And I have no choice but to accept his will for you. When he wills you to accept his real grace, you will then be -- possibly for the first time in your life -- be set free. Then, from this position of absolute freedom, you may choose him. But without it, you are unable to choose him. Does that make any sense to you? Under real grace alone, Max | ||
| Colleen Tinker (Colleentinker) |
Lari, your post made me want to cry. I praise God for you and for the amazing change I see in you. I never will stop being amazed at how God brought you back into my life after our fairly superficial contacts followed by a five-year absence. Wow, have we both changed! Colleen | ||
| Max |
Patti, Here is an excerpt from Lari Mobley's post above, which demonstrates the power of real grace to change lives: ^^ I also know that God is real because of the changes in my life during the past year when I came back to a relationship with Him. I don't mean changes like things working out better for me financially or anything like that, but changes in my attitude, my heart and an inner peace I never experienced before. ^^ That's how she KNOWS God is real! And from everything I know about her (I see her and her husband Friday nights at FAF meeting), I can testify to you that for her God's grace is not bogus. Real grace changes lives for the better. Bogus grace doesn't. A changed life is a fundamental and utterly necessary human response to the once-for-all-time, once-for-all-people action of Jesus Christ's pure grace on the cross 1970 years ago. And it is precisely what I mean when I say now that I had to lose my life (marriage, family, job, house, professional position and social acceptance in SDA church family) in order to find my life. Under real grace alone now, Max | ||
| Maryann |
Amen Max! Grace DOES change lives! And it's not a SIN to recognize it in our own, your own and my own life. ;-) It's kinda like, "Oh Happy Day". The Bible doesn't say, "by their fruits ye shall know them", just to use up ink! It is there for witnessing as well as our own encouragement! I think so many fall into the age old trap that it is a sin to recognize that our own lives have changed. What is the Bible all about!!!! WDYT? Onward and upward........Maryann | ||
| Cindy |
Lari, Hi! thanks for your post. It was good. I think you tied it together well by saying that you know you had salvation when you accepted Christ years ago! You wrote: "And he did die for my sins. I have salvation because I accepted him many years ago, back when I was still an Adventist. I know that I have been saved since then, and I know that it was by grace alone because I certainly didn't and do not deserve it". And then when you established a more intimate relationship with Jesus you said, "I also know that God is real because of the changes in my life during the past year when I came back to a relationship with Him. I don't mean changes like things working out better for me financially or anything like that, but changes in my attitude, my heart and an inner peace I never experienced before". I think you were always His, under true grace, but the real realization of this wonderful and free grace finally manifested itself in changes in your attitude and life. Blessings to you as you continue In GRACE! Resting in Him alone, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
Patti, You wrote, "we don't need to know everything, we just need to know Jesus!" Amen! I want to know Him better... I like the words to this song; Live out Thy Life within me, Oh Jesus, King of Kings! Be Thou, Thyself, the Answer To all my Questionings. Live out Thy Life within me, Oh Jesus, King of Kings! Be Thou,the Glorious Answer To all my Questionings. As always, in debt to His Mercy and Grace, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
Max, Hi! I want to get to your two new parable/story posts but will have to wait until tomorrow since my older son is breathing down my neck to use the Internet to play his guitar along with... I sense you trust in grace alone very much! One thing I was thinking of when you mentioned "bogus grace" was that it sounds like the term Dietrich Bonhoeffer used, "cheap grace." He writes that cheap grace (bogus?) is: grace without JESUS grace without the CROSS grace without DISCIPLESHIP Real grace is COSTLY. In Jesus, it condemns sin while justifying the sinner completely. There's only one true grace, the Grace of Christ, and any other grace is no grace at all!!! As Paul wrote to the Galations, "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--which is really no gospel at all." Blessings to you, Max! Because of His Costly Grace alone, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Yes, Cindy, Bogus grace is indeed grace without JESUS, the CROSS, or DISCIPLESHIP. Bogus grace is "grace" which says that the redeemed sinner can live his life without obeying the commandments of Jesus, without bearing the cross of Jesus, without the discipline that is discipleship. And this website cannot become known for teaching that. I'm not saying that this is what you and Patti are teaching. I'm only saying that the Reformers did not teach bogus grace and that Scripture does not teach it. It is a heresy as old as the false teachers that Paul fought. Under real grace alone, Max | ||
| Patti |
Grace is God's favor toward undeserving sinners. How can grace be "bogus" as it is an attribute of God and not of man? | ||
| Max |
Bogus grace is not an attribute of God. It is a slanderous (Paul's word) projection of human desires upon God. | ||
| Cindy |
Max, I think that is what we are saying!! Please don't jump to the conclusion that some on this website are teaching a bogus grace! I pray the Holy Spirit will be here in and with ALL of us! Bogus or cheap grace is NOT an attribute of God. There is only one True Grace and it is found in the doing and dying of Christ alone! It is given as a free gift to us who are unworthy sinners with no righteousness of our own, only able to trust in His merits alone. This gospel! this wondrous news! this new wine!!... when we grasp the joy of Christ's gift, it will (as Frederick Buechner writes), like real wine, gladden our hearts and loosen our tongues! We will want to abandon ourselves to Him. (And I don't even need real wine to do this! Loosen my tongue or, in this case, my fingers! Ha!) Gratefully living in His Costly Grace, Cindy |
