|Posted on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 2:22 pm: || |
"Without perfection of character no one can enter the pearly gates of the city of God"
I have to agree with this statement. (don't panic)
The difference between SDA & Bible is WHO makes the perfection.
So, taken out of context, most Adventists would defend this statement. But we don't have to read far to know that Ellen White makes it clear that the responsibility for this perfection lies with us. THAT'S the difference! Again, if I can do that, who needs a Savior?
|Jude the Obscure|
|Posted on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 2:29 pm: || |
The Holy Spirit has given you "eyes" to see. In SC, EGW obviously thought of herself -- and you, the reader -- as on the outside of "the kingdom of heaven" looking in, whereas, according to Jesus (Luke 17:20,21) all who accept Him as Lord are on the inside looking out!
And the reason we're looking out is not because we long to be back outside the kingdom walls, because we long to invite others in because we love them, even our enemies.
Turns your head around, doesn't it?
|Posted on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 2:35 pm: || |
I've always thought the purpose of religion (any religion) is to keep people like me out of Heaven.
|Jude the Obscure|
|Posted on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 2:50 pm: || |
Lynn, that doesn't even compute. What do you mean?
|Posted on Friday, January 28, 2000 - 4:02 pm: || |
I meant it somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
Religions like Adventism have so many rules I can't possibly qualify. So I like to steer clear of religion altogether & go straight to the Father through the Son. He's the Way, the Truth & the Life.
And to the next question - I go to a non-denominational church.
As our pastor often says, more harm has been done in the name of organized religion than organized crime.
|Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 3:23 pm: || |
Somebody please respond!!
From Jack Blanco comes this message.
I am sure you heard about the Pope's apologies for the crusades, the inquisitions, attitude during WW2. Athough some have picked on words he used, or did not use the image protrayed to people everywhere has caught the attention of the media.. Note the quote in GC. 571
"The Roman Catholic church now presents a fair front to the world, covering with apologies her record of horrible cruelties. She has clothed herself in Christlike garments but is unchanged."
Who would have thought that this would happen when GC was penned so many years ago.
Another prophecy fulfilled. Guess Ellen White is right AGAIN.
|Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 5:29 pm: || |
I'll let someone one else answer the question about the Pope's recent apologies in light of the page 571, GC quote.
I would like you to take a look at Life Assurance Ministries at "ratzlaf.com". Scroll to "NEWS" at the left and select it. Choose "CORRUPT BIBLES" and read it very carefully and very prayerfully and you decide how much credence you can give to the author of the "Clear Word" Bible, Jack Blanco. With my own ears, I heard him comment on 3ABN that, Adam and EVE kept the Sabbath in the Garden of Eden and are we any better than them that we shouldn't also keep it. It's one thing to say that one should keep the Sabbath by quoting the 4th commandment and totally another to make up a statement like that with absolutly NO foundation in ANY Bible text!
It's nice to have you visit. Keep checking our site out.
|Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 6:11 pm: || |
Well, I could say that after having made so many prognostications, a couple of them are bound to come true. [ggg]
But I suppose that would not truly address your question.
I am not sure this was a "prognostication." From the context, it appears that the RCC had made apologies at the time the words were written.
"The Roman Catholic church now presents a fair front to the world, covering with apologies her record of horrible cruelties"
Finding out for sure would require some research, though.
I had one SDA tell me that I was the fulfillment of one of her prophecies--that the last great deception of Satan would be to cast doubt on the truth of the "testimonies," i. e. her words.
I merely replied to him that he himself would fulfill a prophecy of mine--and then I wrote a long and tedious paragraph, a la Ellen, stating how many would doubt my own personal words and if they did, they would prove that I was a true prophet and that they were of Satan. Sure enough, he vehemently rebuked my words, at which I told him that he had proved that I was a true prophet. [ggg]
Of course, any prophet who wants to keep his/her flock under his/her thumb will write warnings against those who reject his/her words!
Anyway, this did not really answer your question, but I think research will bear out that this (RCC apologies) was something that was going around in her day.
Any other comments?
|Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 6:46 pm: || |
Ellen White Vision.
Spiritual Gifts, Vol 2.
I was shown the company present at the Conference
(May of 1856). Said the angel: "Some food for
worms, some subjects of the seven
last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon
the earth to be translated at the coming of
Check out Testimonies for the Church Vol. 1 pp
131-132. It is another version of this vision.
Prophecy of Ellen White, Jerusalem would not be
Early Writings, pg. 75.
Then I was pointed to some who are in the great
error of believing that it is their duty to go to
Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do
there before the Lord comes... I saw that Satan
had greatly deceived some in this thing... I
also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built
up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead
the minds of the children of the Lord into these
things now, in the gathering time.
IS ELLEN WHITE A PROPHET?
EGW-Spiritual Gifts PG 232, 233, 234
I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time
in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people
and bring them to a testing point, where they
should decide for or against the truth.
Thousands were led to embrace the truth preached
by William Miller.
Many shepherds of the flock, who professed to love
Jesus, said that they had no opposition to the
preaching of Christ's coming, but they objected to
the definite time.
Ministers who would not accept this saving message
themselves hindered those who would have received
it. The blood of souls is upon them. Preachers
and people joined to oppose this message from
heaven and to persecute William Miller and those
who united with him in the work.
EGW- REVIEW AND HERALD 1850-11-01
The Lord showed me that the 1843 chart was
directed by his hand, and that no part of it
should be altered; that the figures were as he
wanted them. That his hand was over and hid a
mistake in some of the figures, so that none could
see it, until his hand was removed.
THE 1843 "TRUTH" BECOMES THE 1844 "TRUTH".
EGW-Spiritual Gifts VOL.1 PG 139
Those faithful, disappointed
ones, who could not understand why their
Lord did not come, were not left in darkness.
Again they were led to their Bibles to search
the prophetic periods. The hand of the Lord
was removed from the figures, and the mistake
was explained (SO GOD DECIEVED US). They saw that
the prophetic periods reached to 1844, and that
the same evidence they had presented to show that
the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that
they would terminate in 1844. Light from the word
of God shone upon their position, and they
discovered a tarrying time.--If the vision tarry,
wait for it.--In their love for Jesus' immediate
coming, they had overlooked the tarrying of
the vision, which was calculated to manifest the
true waiting ones. Again they had a point of time.
Yet I saw that many of them could not rise above
their severe disappointment, to possess that
degree of zeal and energy which had marked their
faith in 1843.
AND AS YOU KNOW HE DID NOT COME IN 1844 EITHER.
BIBLE-DEUT 18:21 And if thou say in thy heart, How
shall we know the word which Jehovah hath not
22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of
Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to
pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not
spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously,
thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Beverly there are a lot more examples. I think
Gene Dixon had a better tract record.
|Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 10:30 pm: || |
The fact that certain of EGW's "prophecies" come true doesn't surprise me. If it's true that she got at least some of her visions/dreams from Satan (or even if it's true that she didn't get them from God but said whatever was expedient for her), she was not a prophet of God.
Satan, however, knows what his own plans are, and he is a deceiver. As a dear friend of mine once said, "I think Satan tipped his hand in Adventist theology." It's not surprising that he would have EGW "prophecy" certain things that he knows will come to pass because he knows what his plans are.
For instance, I grew up hearing that EGW said that the worst attacks on the church would come from those who had rejected the light and left the church. Isn't it amazing to find oneself on the other side of that "prophecy"? Of course, no one knows what the church is really like in the way a former Adventist knows. It makes sense that we would be perceived as the worst "attackers". Satan knew that when people discovered the deception that had been perpetrated on the Adventists, those who saw the truth would be vigilant in opposing the darkness. But the orignial "prophecy" was framed as a warning to the church, not as a statement of the hope and truth implicit in discovering reality!
As our pastor's wife has said, "God allows no one to sin successfully forever." Satan knows he is subject to God's sovereignty. Truth ultimately has the last word.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 5:45 am: || |
Thanks for the response. I know it I know it! And it is extremely hard to hear and listen to your intelligent friends castigate your faith in Jesus. An adventist pastor chastised me for responding with disfavor over the church studying one of her books for Bible study, questioned me about how much of the bible I was reading since I have been feeding my mind with garbage from the internet.. Does that make any sense.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 8:01 am: || |
Were you born into SDAism? Are you a 2nd or 3rd generation SDA? Are you under 40? Enough quiz time!
It's great that you had the internal fortitude to have asked your pastor why you were studying EWG for Bible study. Keep on asking the questions that are on your mind. As far as the "garbage on the internet", follow your conscience. We are very sincere. Some things that are written here could be attacked by the SDA church as devisive. I don't agree, naturally. We are airing out some of the pain and fear that we have lived with for so many years! For myself, I was out of any Church for 20+ years and it is wonderful to be back with the most caring friends one could EVER hope to find! I tossed religion when I was 18 because I could no longer swallow EGW. I rationalized my FEAR of God by convincing myself that I was a "basicly good person"! I'm not well versed in the Bible like my "so eloquent" friends on this site. Why, I was raised on EGW rather that the BIBLE?! I'm trying to learn as fast as I can, but, for the last week or so I have a bad case of "study block". I can hardly pick up the Bible without immdiately putting it down. It's like I'm so discouraged realizing how much I have to learn in such a short time that I'm just overloaded. If this feeling doesn't pass soon, I'll really have to kick myself into reality. Also, now that I've said this on the Forum, all my friends will be specificly praying for me on this issue too.
Let me give you what I believe as the simplest form of the gospel as I now understand it. When God rested after creation, he entered into a relationship with Adam and Eve that had not sin come, would have lasted for eternity. Adam gave that relationship up by his own choice. He was NOT deceived! When Jesus came to this earth by his choice and COMPLETED His work on this earth by His life, death and ascention, he invited US to by our CHOICE to enter into the same relationship (ETERNAL relationship) that our father Adam chose to give up. Simply awesome, we accept His FINISHED word and HE is our Father ETERNALLY! Can salvation be any more simple than that? Do we need all that additional "light" when the Bible is so simple. All you need to do is believe! With our conditioning, it is so hard to accept a gift. When you understand the simplicity of this and claim it as "your heritage", you will want to serve Him. You will not want to use your new found liberty as a license to sin! That last sentence is where we as Former SDAs have such a hard time. We just can hardly accept that liberty in Christ is NOT a "LICENSE TO SIN" and that the more we understand liberty in Christ the more we want to serve Him. On the cross, Jesus said "it is finished/completed", Beverly, use your God given choice and accept it!
Suppose I better shut up before I confuse the simple gospel?
|Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 10:18 am: || |
I have been reading many of the posts for the last while,and have seen in Maryann's post of March 29 something very interesting. In the last few lines she says " if you claim it as your heritage, you will want to serve Him. You will not want to use your new found liberty as a license to sin."
This goes back to the argument, If I shoot someone will I go to heaven. Or once saved always saved. I just can't accept the idea that if I deliberatly sin after I am saved I will go to heaven without having to repent. ( Which is giveng me license.) This seens to say that I will not deliberatly go out and sin. This I can accept as I will punish my kids for willingly doing what I told them not to do. But, will not for the things they didn't understand or didn't know about.
It just has to make sence.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 2:53 pm: || |
The Arminian denies that the true child of God is
eternally secure. The Calvinist insists that, if
he does not persevere in holiness, he was never
regenerate in the first place. Yet, it seems that
400 years of these doctrinal disputes - with
outstanding scholars on both sides of this
continuing issue - appear to be the result of a
failure to precisely define terms: to adequately
distinguish between JUSTIFICATION SALVATION and
the possibility of several different kinds of
INHERITANCES (FOR A STUDY OF ETERNAL SEECURITY AND
THE FINAL SIGNIFICANCS OF MAN, SEE JOSEPH C.
DILLOW [THE REIGN OF THE SERVANT KINGS] SCHOETTLE
PUBLISHINGCO. HAYESVILLE). There are different
kinds of inheritances in both the Old Testament
and the New Testament. The term for inheritance:
Kleronomeo (Greek), can mean several things,
including a reward for a life of faithfulness.
Even Jesus achieved His inheritance by
perseverance in suffering (Heb 2:10; Phil 2:9-11).
His companions (Heb 1:9 metachoi Greek) will
inherit the same way (Heb 1:14).
An inheritance can be forfeited because of
disobedience (as in the case of Esau Heb 12:17)
and it is only obtained by persevering - "faith
and patience" (Heb 6:12). The partaker, or
metachoi, as a true child of God, is obligated to
persevere (Rom 8:12 Paul's word), but he might
not. IF HE DOES NOT, HE DOES NOT F0RFEIT
SALVATION but faces divine discipline in time and
the loss of reward at the judgment seat of Christ
(1 COR 3:12-15 This is not the Great White Throne
Judgment as Adventist would have you believe).
Permission to enter my home doesn't include
ownership or permission to rearrange the
I got this from a paper from somebody at work I
thought you all might like it.
|Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 9:02 pm: || |
Beverly, When is Jack Blanco going to appologize for writing a corrupted "Bible" full of lies and calling it a paraphrase?
As for fulfilled prophecies, don't forget, Jean Dixon gets a few right, too.
|Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2000 - 8:42 am: || |
I posted the following on another forum. You know, even us "exes" like to hang on to some of "Ellen," especially Desire of Ages." An SDA defender posted this passage from DA, to which I responded. Tell me, am I wrong?
Our Saviour appreciated a quiet home and interested listeners. He longed for human tenderness, courtesy, and affection.
Is there any Biblical support for these two statements? Not that it is a serious issue. It merely conjectures as to the thoughts and attitude of Jesus. I think it is a very dangerous think to thrust upon Jesus our concepts and our feelings. He was/is God. And here, Ellen--or, Harris, rather--is imputing to Him, the Creator of the universe, characteristics of sinful humans. I find that a scary practice....
The "one thing" that Martha needed was a calm, devotional spirit, a deeper anxiety for knowledge concerning the future, immortal life, and the graces necessary for spiritual advancement.
Again, nowhere in Scripture does it say that the "one thing" Martha needed was a calm spirit. Although it does not state as much, I suspect that Martha and Mary both were just as much in need of the mercy and grace of God as you and I are.
She needed less anxiety for the things which pass away, and more for those things which endure forever. Jesus would teach His children to seize every opportunity of gaining that knowledge which will make them wise unto salvation.
Actually, no. Jesus taught them to believe on Him, and they would have all the knowledge which would make them "wise unto salvation."
The cause of Christ needs careful, energetic workers. There is a wide field for the Marthas, with their zeal in active religious work. But let them first sit with Mary at the feet of Jesus. Let diligence, promptness, and energy be sanctified by the grace of Christ; then the life will be an unconquerable power for good (The Desire of Ages, pp. 524, 525).
Although I read it many years ago, I have never done an analysis of DA. But from this short passage, it appears to me that this book, like SC, is believer-centric. This short passage dwells on the lives and work of the believer. Nowhere does it even hint at the saving act of Jesus Christ, or at belief in Him. The study would be an interesting one, however, I do not have the time to do it. Good thing I have the Bible to direct me, and do not have to sift through thousands of pages and millions of words in order to find statements of Christ and His righteousness!
Grace and peace,
|Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2000 - 9:13 pm: || |
|Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2000 - 8:04 pm: || |
To find out a lot of truth about Ellen G. White go to the following hyperlink and get an education. http://www.ellenwhite.org/
|Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 5:50 pm: || |
Good link Ray.
I've had friends say that I should be careful what I'm reading on the Internet, because so much "awful" stuff has been written about us SDAs. But the truth is that EGW has written the "awful" stuff and the Internet is being used by God to bring people into a knowledge of these great errors.
Like Walter Martin used to say repeatedly, "Don't believe what I say, go to the sources and check them yourself." That thought has always been a great help to me, but I never applied it to SDAism. Now that I'm applying that criteria, my mind is being blown apart bit by bit.
|Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2000 - 8:02 pm: || |
In 1924 a Massachusetts Historian by the name of Clara Endicott Sears wrote the true history of what really went on during the Millerite movement of 1843-1844. This is a real historian with verifiable facts and not some SDA apologist that will say anything to "prop up the false prophet".."False Profit", Ellen G. White. To download your free copy of this book go to the following url. You also might want to look around and see many other things found on this web site. Janet Brown, the author of this site is a former SDA.
Have a nice day.