| Author | Message | ||
| Ray Pitts |
Did any of you know that Ellen G. White ADMITTED that she had a diseased mind? Here's the proof. Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 2, page 206-207 "In December, 1855, I fell and sprained my ankle, which confined me to crutches six weeks. The confinement was an injury to my lungs.... I have not been entirely free from pain in the left lung since that time [written in 1860]. After I had suffered with a dull, heavy pain in my head for 3 weeks, when the pain became intense... it was INFLAMMATION ON THE BRAIN....I did not expect to live." After discussing this matter with my family doctor, I found that the cells in the brain that are inflammed are ALREADY DEAD! This condition leaves you with permanent brain damage, if you live at all. In the 1850's, your chance of surviving this would have been very slim, even now it kills most people that come down with it. Please go to the official Ellen G. White website at Andrews University and read the full story. The url is http://www.egwestate.andrews.edu/ When you get to this site, use their search function and search for "inflammation on the brain" to read the full story. Ray | ||
| Steve |
Interesting you should mention Janet Brown's website. Janet Brown works for Intel Corporation. I worked for Intel Corp. for 20 years and knew a Janet Brown (not the same one). Janet Brown joined the SDA church in 1985, so did I. It was the challenge on Janet Brown's website that made quite a difference in my life. Her challenge to SDAs: Just read the New Testament for one month, NO OLD TESTAMENT. Although not foolproof (what is?) it made quite a difference in my life. Thanks, Ray, for providing Janet's URL. I'll revisit it as I'd like to read that book by Clara Endicott Sears. If there's one thing about Intel employees that I grew to appreciate over the years (and I HOPE this doesn't sound like I'm blowing my own horn) their integrity is high. I don't know Janet personally, have only visited her via e-mail, but the little I saw on her website was an indication of her positive life in Christ. Steve | ||
| djconklin |
>>Prophecy of Ellen White, Jerusalem would not be built up. Early Writings, pg. 75. Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes... I saw that Satan had greatly deceived some in this thing... I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time. This is taken out of context. The EGW Estate showed that long ago ands yet it is still repeated. Oh well, at least the one about England entering the American Civil war wasn't used! | ||
| djconklin |
>>It was the challenge on Janet Brown's website that made quite a difference in my life. Her challenge to SDAs: Just read the New Testament for one month, NO OLD TESTAMENT. Although not foolproof (what is?) it made quite a difference in my life. That would be a mind-bender alright; especially when you consider that the book of Revelation <b>alone</b> has over 2,500 echoes and allusions to the OT and is structered like the book of Leviticus (the high point is the day of atonement)! So, if you don't know, read, or worse ignore the OT you can barely understand the NT! | ||
| Question |
http://www.millennium.fortunecity.com/lincoln/666/we.are.not.to.accept.scripture.jpg | ||
| Patti |
--So, if you don't know, read, or worse ignore the OT you can barely understand the NT!-- Are you kidding? Surely you must be kidding. The entire OT was only a shadow of the Reality of Jesus Christ. He fulfilled ALL of the law and the Prophets. If we have the clear Reality, the revealing of God's marvelous saving act for mankind, the shadows become indeed shadowy. The OT has relevance for the Christian ONLY in that it points to Jesus Christ and God's great saving act for mankind. It is only in the light of the NEW TESTAMENT that the OLD TESTAMENT had real meaning for those who believe in salvation in Jesus Christ. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Cindy |
DJConklin, Welcome here! I see all Scripture as valuable in understanding God's dealings with us. All of the Old Testament points to Christ!! HE has the supremacy! All of God's fullness dwells in HIM! All the treasures of Wisdom and Knowledge are found in HIM! (See the book of Colossians). The Law and Prophets (Old Testament) lead us to CHRIST! (New Testament) where we can REST! We then STAY there WITH JESUS (abide in Him), and do not need to go back under the Law and Prophets once we have Christ, who is our Life! (Colossians 3). The Gospel is Christ crucified for you!! HIS perfect life, and death, and resurrection in your place! It is THE ACT OF GOD BY WHICH HE DECLARES SINNERS TO BE RIGHTEOUS, BY GRACE ALONE, THROUGH FAITH ALONE, BECAUSE OF CHRIST ALONE! As far as knowing how to live in grateful response to this wonderful news, the New Testament is full of intruction in Godliness. We do not need to go back under the Law and the Prophets to find this. And the Holy Spirit has been promised to be with us to convict, comfort, and lead us. As ever, in debt to His Mercy and Grace, Cindy | ||
| Steve |
DJConklin, Thanks for your critique of my experience. But before you throw it out, realize that what I was challenged to do was simply to read scripture. Period. Nothing else. Your comment on the day of atonement is interesting. Should I then revert back to the Day of Atonement as it is shown in Leviticus? If I do that, then I am trampling on the final and complete atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. So what is it? The Day of Atonement in Leviticus, or the final Atonement of Jesus on the cross? As for me, I'll take Jesus' atonement any day. And in regards to the New Testament -- it quotes and alludes to the OT so much because it is EXPLAINING the OT. The OT does not explain the NT, the NT explains the OT. We SDAs have had it the wrong way around for too long. Let's stop pointing people back to the Law, but let's, along with the Law, point people to Jesus Christ, who can save us from the condemnation of the Law. In His Grace, Steve | ||
| djconklin |
>>I see all Scripture as valuable in understanding God's dealings with us. All of the Old Testament points to Christ!! HE has the supremacy! All of God's fullness dwells in HIM! All the treasures of Wisdom and Knowledge are found in HIM! (See the book of Colossians). ... Amen to that Cindy! | ||
| djconklin |
>>Thanks for your critique of my experience. But before you throw it out, realize that what I was challenged to do was simply to read scripture. Period. Nothing else. I would never throw out your experience. No anthropologist would ever simply read an English translation of another culture's work without consulting the original languages and other tools that would enable him/her to understand that culture and what they are saying and why. The same should hold true of anyone attempting to understand Scripture. For instance, i just finished read an article by Troy Martin about Col. 2:16-17 and in it he points out that grammatically speaking what has been ellipsed out of the last clause of vs. 17 is not an "is" (or "belongs", etc.) as many English translations assume; rather it is krino (judging with a positive nuance) to form an antithesis of the first pharse of vs 16 where krino is used in a negative sense. This is but one example of why any mere reading of an English translation is bound to get people into trouble--witness the histroy of interpretation of these two verses. >>Your comment on the day of atonement is interesting. Should I then revert back to the Day of Atonement as it is shown in Leviticus? If I do that, then I am trampling on the final and complete atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. I was simply pointing out that the book of Revelations is <b>structured</b> in the same manner as Leviticus--no more, and no less. === And in regards to the New Testament -- it quotes and alludes to the OT so much because it is EXPLAINING the OT. The OT does not explain the NT, the NT explains the OT. We SDAs have had it the wrong way around for too long. Defintely true that the NT explains the OT and without an understanding of both you can never fully understand either. I don't know who taught you but I weas never taught that the OT explains the NT. === >>Let's stop pointing people back to the Law, but let's, along with the Law, point people to Jesus Christ, who can save us from the condemnation of the Law. Most people I deal with already have some belief in Jesus Christ. What I try to do is show them that while the whole Law points out our waywardness/sinfulness it also points us to our Savior. Too often I find people calling Jesus their Savior without them realizing in what they have fallen short and need a Savior--tyhus the Law has to be explained to them. It is not something to be feared or shied away from. It was given by God to keep us from sin but if we do sin then we have a Savior who is able to save to the uttermost. | ||
| Steve |
DJConklin, Thank you for clarifying. I do believe that the Law helps point out our sinfulness. But not just the Big 10, the whole Law. It's an interesting comment on our human condition that God included statements that we should not lie with an animal as we lie with a spouse. It's shocking but true, we are woefully sinful. I think we SDAs have used the Big 10 and not used the whole Law to show how sinful man really is, and how great of a Savior we have. There is one comment you make that made me pause. You said: "This is but one example of why any mere reading of an English translation is bound to get people into trouble--witness the histroy of interpretation of these two verses." I was in a discussion a few months ago with someone who said that one needed to understand the Hebrew and Greek to really know what was being meant by scripture. Your statement that " . . . any mere reading of an English translation is bound to get people into trouble . . ." could be taken in a very negative way. Although I studied Greek for two years (and have forgot much of it) I would NEVER say that reading English translations is "bound" to get people into trouble. There are many good English (and other language) translations out there. There are some awful ones as well. My wife, for instance, could read English, but has to go to the Spanish to really understand what's being said. I doubt if she would ever want to go to the Greek to learn the variations in readings. Hers is a simple faith (correct or incorrect as it may be). There are many who, for whatever reasons, can and should only deal in their primary language. It is the job of interpreters to deal with these issues, and I really believe that many interpretations bring out some wonderful truths. We can't all go back to the "original" languages. (I put original in quotes, because God, in His infinite wisdom, had to "translate" His truth into human language in the first place. I assume that something may have been lost in that process also, but can't assume too much or we may all be in trouble!) I agree, the Law should not be shied away from. Jesus does save us to the uttermost. God Bless, Steve | ||
| Cindy |
I agree, Steve. Presently, I don't think I'm energetic enough to learn Hebrew and Greek! In Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Patti |
Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Fortunately, Steve, Jesus Christ is God's final and ultimate Word to mankind. Faith comes of hearing, and hearing of the Word of God. Understanding Gospel is not dependent upon being able to read any specific language. Remember on the Day of Pentecost, when the disciples spoke and every person there heard in his/her own language? So it is today. When the Spirit speaks to us, we will understand in our own language. Grace and peace, Patti PS Amen! Jesus Christ DOES save us to the uttermost. | ||
| djconklin |
>>I don't think I'm energetic enough to learn Hebrew and Greek! Don't worry, you don't have to. But, having said that you can't ignore it either! And like Steve said even tho' he had studied it for two years he still forgot it--but, a prof at AU said that 15 minutes a day and you'll pick it up. So, my plea/fight is against the "easy believism" that many people ask us to do--like the guy who recommended this site to me asked me to do. As for English translations and my "bound" comment this is directed specifically against the "easy believers," English translations only types. Read theological history and note how frequently these people have, and still do, led others down the wrong path. >>But not just the Big 10, the whole Law. It's an interesting comment on our human condition that God included statements that we should not lie with an animal as we lie with a spouse. I would say that that particular sin is covered under a broad understanding of the "thou shalt not commit adultery." >>It's shocking but true, we are woefully sinful. You are 100% correct. And I believe that it is as we examine ourselves relative to the life of Christ and the Law that we discover exactly where we have gone astray and subsequently need salvation from our sins, not in them, and our need for a Savior. | ||
| Steve |
DJConklin, That's not adultery, it's called bestiality. I don't know that a broad understanding of thou shalt not commit adultery would cover it in this day and age. Also, scripture states that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly." Your statement that we ". . . need salvation from our sins, not in them . . ." seems to add words to scripture. I, personally, was saved while I was still a sinner. And, lo and behold, I still am a sinner. Am I then not saved because I am still sinning? (By the way, I sin willfully, knowingly, and purposefully. If I understand sin, it is all willful and purposeful. That's when sin is imputed to us, when we know it's wrong.) Scripture does say that He came to save us from our sins. But nowhere does it say that He will NOT save us in our sins. I must know this, because I may not be saved if He doesn't save us while we're still sinning, or if we go on sinning. God Bless, Steve | ||
| Cindy |
Patti, That was a great observation! I was getting a little depressed about studying Hebrew and Greek right now...I don't want to say that it may not be helpful in some areas, but I don't think it is a necessity to understand the Gospel!! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
DJConklin, I second what Steve has said: "Scripture does say that He came to save us from our sins. But nowhere does it say that He will NOT save us in our sins." Jesus does save us FROM our sins! Our sins have separated us from God. Jesus has gained access for us again to the very presence of God, into this grace in which we can all now stand. If Jesus didn't save us from our sins we could not live eternally in the presence of a Holy God! And Jesus saves us IN our sins! As Steve also posted, I too, was saved in my sins. I continue to have a sinful nature since I am infected with the SIN of Adam. I continue to sin in thought and deed daily. I pray the Holy Spirit will impress me more each day to live a Christ-like life. He helps us in our weaknesses. He shows us that Christ is to be our Life!! Jesus has promised to come and abide with us. What a comfort! Yes-- Jesus saves me in my sins!! HIS Perfect Righteousness given to me is my only security and hope (and joy!!). Because of Christ's Righteousness Alone, Cindy | ||
| Patti |
Yay, Cindy and Steve! You finally verbalized what has been needed to be said for a long time. The Gospel is that Christ saves people IN their sins! We are righteous only by faith in the imputed righteousness of Christ. Thank you! Both of you! You have made my day. | ||
| Steve |
Praise the Lord, Patti. I'm glad I had a part in making SOMEONE'S day. All this "grace alone" business is pretty new. But it seems to be what God is all about. I'm personally struggling with understanding it all. Some of you seem to have had some sort of theological training that provides you with some great insights. But as I learn more about the Reformers and Gospel (read "Good News") it seems that it only makes sense this way. Steve | ||
| sherry |
Let's not miss the fact that the two greatest commandments were listed outside of the Big 10. The Big 10 are not that Big. The two greatest commandments go right to the heart of the issue. Just as the rich man who came to Jesus did indeed say he kept all God's Commands, and Jesus told him "You do well"...and then to go and sell what he had and give to the poor. Jesus goes to the heart of the matter, not externals. |
