| Author | Message | ||
| sherry |
Bruce, just want you to know that I am enjoying "The White Lie". I thought it was written wonderfully. The Veltman summary was especially helpful as well. Did you get my message on it? Anyhow thank you very much. Please continue to pray for my husband. He's somewhat open to our discussions and I am thankful to that. I haven't told family I've left the denomination. Treading water there I guess...just a little scared. | ||
| Max |
Bless you, Sherry. | ||
| Jtree |
Sherry, I"m not ashamed or scared of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is nothing to be scared of, God is with you. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Sherry, You have made a "giant leap for SDAkind". I'm very sure that your husband will soon follow. There are a lot of prayers for you in FAFland. Could you explain the emotional severing you feel since leaving the denom? I don't mean the people, I mean the, "everything else". You still seem so close to the severing, that I'd love to hear how this has you feeling. Really! Maryann | ||
| Patti |
Sherry, It is not the "severing" with the SDA church that is important. In fact, I totally believe that no one should leave SDAism EXCEPT for the Gospel alone. Do not feel that you must leave in order to fulfil the will of God. Do not leave over the plagiarism of Ellen. Leave only if you cannot stay, if you are convinced that the SDA church is teaching doctrine that are contrary to the Gospel of salvation by grace alone. And, whatever choice you make, may you have the knowledge of God's richest blessings in Jesus Christ. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| sherry |
Hi folks. Well I am severed. I asked a month ago that my name be removed. It has been done, as of this month's business meeting. Reasons for leaving - I read much of Ellen White - was sure every word I read must've been from God. But when I read "Messages to Young People", "Councils on Diet and Food", "Spiritual Gifts Vol 1-4", and many, many more I often felt hopeless and never able to measure to my standards. My husband will tell you that I walked the extremes. I tried to do all those extra things she talked about, and I'd go on a binge and throw all sugar, chocolate, anything meat related, eggs, etc. out of the house. It would last a while, but felt overwhelmed and my husband hated it...so I'd start buying things again that I thought was so wrong...but what could I do? Well anyhow, the point is this: Because of so many of the things I read, I was never sure of my salvation. I was suicidal since a child an onwards, and have prayed often that God would just please kill me. First my family of origin is Alcoholic, and then we came into the church, and our family was legalistic, and let's look good. Before we came into the church, we had no church background at all. So it coupled dysfunction with more dysfunction. Salvation = Jesus + some of my works. I was so scared of end times, and how I would survive it..could I be tortured and stand true to God? What about living without Jesus as my Intercessor? What if I missed confessing one sin? There are many Adventists that do seem to understand the gospel....most of those that do don't seem to spend a great amount of time in White's writings. I didn't understand. I don't agree with you, Patti, on leaving for the Gospel alone. Why I say this is because if I didn't leave for the different reasons I did, I may still be living under bondage and still not understand the Gospel. I left because I could not agree with the doctrines of spirit of prophecy = e.g. white...that was blasphemous to me, and seemed to limit the power of God to fall on one woman, whereas Joel says His Spirit will be poured out on all people. Because of that, the church claims to be remnant...for they keep the ten commandments and have their prophetess. Since I already had concluded that it was erroneous to think that the spirit of prophecy meant her writings, I had to believe that that statement was also wrong. I had had a problem with 1844 for a while, and I know the sense of condemnation it worked in me. I see that our people (they are still my brothers/sisters) say that they don't hold her above the Bible, but the fruits and actions show just the opposite. I was sick of the apathy and prejudism in my own heart towards other denominations. I had seen God work mightily outside of the church and I know that I enjoyed fellowshipping with those outside the church more - from the standpoint that they wanted to study the Bible (not just the same doctrinal points over and over), and they prayed with each other, and I had received no condemnation when I went for help outside the church for some serious problems I had. I left for those reasons. I prayed much about it. I had to know that I wasn't condemned by God if I left, and that my salvation wasn't based on being a Seventh-day Adventist. God gave me an abundance of peace about it, and I moved forward and sent a letter to the church the first of May. It was then that I read Hebrews with "new eyes" and just cried and cried when I realized ALL my sins were taken to the cross - not just the ones before conversion - but ALL of them. What joy and what thankfulness I felt. Thank you, Jesus is all I can say. The Gospel did not open to me until I had left. You asked about the severing, Maryann. Well there are days were I feel a little sick and scared, wondering if I did the right thing...doubts about what if she is a true prophet...it's just because of hearing it for so many years, that it's got it's claws and message deep into me, and it takes time. I'm accepting that I'm in a grieving process too and it's ok. Sometimes I am just so angry...and shocked that I've been duped. But most of the time I'm very relieved and happy for the decision I have made. I know what I did was right in the eyes of God, and that is all that matters. I would love to find some Michiganders who have left too, so we can fellowship. I'm allowing myself to be ministered to by other people in other churches and I am thankful for all the prayers being offered up on our behalf. ....oh, and the Pastor of another SDA church just called me right now wanting to visit with Jon and I...oh boy....well anyhow. There are many beautiful people in the church that I know and care about deeply. But I do not want to belong to a Denomination itself that I cannot support how it does distort truth. I can understand how we look like a cult now...Anyhow, thanks for listening. | ||
| Patti |
Sherry, Rolaant is a Michigander. I think he has posted his email address. If not you can reach him through his website: http://www.gospeloutreach.net If you still do not get through to him, let me know. He is in the process of moving this week, but he can't stay away from his computer for too long. Grace, Patti PS What I said about not leaving except for the Gospel, I still hold that. Your case in point does not seem to be a problem because you have a very good grasp on salvation. But for others who leave SDAism, often the church is the only moral check on their behavior. I do believe it is better for society for people to be around those who believe in God than to dissociate themselves from the like altogether. Yes, I mean it. Better an SDA than an agnostic or athiest. At least they are being presented Bible texts at various times. And perhaps one of those texts will strike home. My prayers and rejoicing are with you, Sherry. I will be in Michigan (Alma College) in August. Perhaps, if you are within driving distance, we could get together. | ||
| sherry |
Thanks Patti. I hear what you're saying about the Gospel. That does make sense. Alma College in Alma, MI? I think that is about an hour and a half away. I'm in G.R. Thank you. I'll try to touch base with Roolant. | ||
| jtree |
Sherry, I'm from Michigan. I'd like to meet you someday, how about meeting me at Moline Baptist church? I live in Kalamazoo, and drive up to the G.R area sometimes (I was born in G.R.). :-) I'd like to meet you and your husband, and Moline being a 1/2 way point, about 20 minutes to you, and 35 for me. Is that fair? Take 131 south to the 142nd street exit, in Allegan County. go into Moline, (small village). Can meet there? If you wish? I'm willing. Thanks. | ||
| Colleen Tinker (Colleentinker) |
Sherry, I'm so happy and thankful for you! I understand your feeling that the gospel opened up to you after you left the church. After we decided to leave, so much began to become clear to us. I understand, too, your spasms of doubt. We had those for quite awhile. I believe that the reason those falsehoods and deceptions are so deep in us is that there is a demonic component to them. As we open ourselves to truth, the Holy Spirit fills those places in our hearts and minds that had believed the errors, and truth becomes more and more clear and "in focus". Our prayers for you continue! Praising God for his goodness, Colleen | ||
| Max |
Patti, Do you believe that after salvation we change and do the works of God? Do you think that the idea of "changing and doing the works of God" is a negation of grace? Grace and peace to you, Max | ||
| Sally |
Hi Sherry, I just wanted to thank you for that testimony. It is so similar to my experience. And I agree with you that the less exposure to Ellen White it seems the happier adventist. The adventist teachings can be quite depressing. Many facets of them are so negative and condemnatory. I also suffered from depression and doubts of my salvation. I am so happy to be free from it now. God Bless you and your family | ||
| sherry |
Thanks Sally. Sure we could get together sometime, JTREE...could you tell me a little more about yourself too - name, family, etc.? I think if you click on my name above, you can e-mail me directly too. :) Wow...just read Galations from front to finish this morning. Powerful evidence to being under a new law in Christ, and to be under old law is useless. Interesting how you read the Bible so differently when you're not seeing through SDA vision. | ||
| Max |
Patti, I'm still waiting for your answers to these questions. Their challenge to you remains. Do you believe that after salvation we change and do the works of God? Do you think that the idea of "changing and doing the works of God" is a negation of grace? Grace and peace to you, Max | ||
| Julia |
Sherry, I don't post here often but I just have to let you know how much I agree with you about the book of Galations! I now wonder how I missed it before.I guess there was a veil in front of my eyes. I am also thinking about having my name removed from the sda books. The last time I was at the sda church,which was months ago, someone stood up and said" the health message is the right hand to the gospel" I wonder if any one else there even questioned this. Actually A year ago I probably wouldn't have noticed this either.I don't think they can prove that one by the Bible and the Bible alone. Isn't the gospel of Jesus and the forgiveness of sins a gazillion times better? God bless you all. Julia | ||
| Max |
Hi Patti, Do you believe that after salvation we change and do the works of God? | ||
| Max |
Hi Patti again, A question for you: Do you think that the idea of "changing and doing the works of God" is a negation of grace? Max | ||
| djconklin |
>>Bruce, just want you to know that I am enjoying "The White Lie". I thought it was written wonderfully. Yeah, Walter Rea has a number of choice "findings"; such as: Ellen White is not the only object of attack in The White Lie. Ministers of all faiths are repeatedly characterized as "supersalesmen" or "salesmen of the psychic." The theme pervades the book: All supersalesmen sell the advantages of their particular name brands. In the cults and sects, it's the brand of their saint and what is required by that saint to be saved. In the larger and longer established forms of religion, it's the Clan Plan, mother's religion, the faith of the fathers, the true light. [3][*] Christian beliefs are ridiculed: Who tagged all of us with sin? Was it God, or that snake in the grass that came in when Adam was down on the south forty? Or do we get it from our ancestors of past eons? Or is the Devil, like Santa Claus, our dad?[4] Heaven is scoffed at: Not very often, if ever, is one dealing with pure truth, either small or large, in religion. One is dealing with truth as filtered, expanded, diminished, bounded, or defined by the I-saws of all the Ellens of Christendom with a lot of help from the divines. What does emerge from all the froth is that the map for this life and the one to come, if indeed it does come, is drawn by the clan--and thus becomes the Clan Plan. Heaven becomes the main gate to isolation, where all the bad as we conceive of it (which in humanity's case means other people) is snuffed out, and only us good guys go marching through. Thus we make our own ghetto.[5] Religion is deemed little more than a word game: In most libraries, the religion department is under the subject heading of philosophy--and that is what it is, the defining and redefining of terms and ideas that have defied defining for centuries.[6] The ways God has dealt with His people are scorned: Freethinkers have always gotten [p. 2] into trouble. In the time of Moses, if anyone started a fire on his own to enjoy a cup of hot herb tea on Sabbath, he was stoned, and not in the modern sense of the word either. If he wandered around in the local swapmeet on Sabbath in the days of Nehemiah he might run the risk of having his beard pulled or his toupee disrupted. Even in the New Testament times, if Ananias kept out a few shekels from the tithe to pay the rent, he was told by the local divine to drop dead--which he did. [7] Nevertheless, in spite of the book's emotion-laden attacks on Ellen White, on the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and on Christian beliefs in general, it does provide an opportunity to illuminate some interesting corners of Seventh-day Adventist history. Because the Seventh-day Adventist Church is growing so rapidly, there are always many new members who may not be well acquainted with Ellen White's life.They will appreciate having positive answers to some of the questions raised by the book. Then too, since the volume has received attention in the popular press in the United States, our fellow Christians in other denominations deserve a calm and candid evaluation of the book. The above was found at the egw estate web site. | ||
| Max |
Hello djconklin, I laughed repeatedly at your biting wit. Hope you hang around so I can enjoy more of it. Max Gordon Phillips | ||
| Del Star |
Well, I see that the 'hereticals' got a bit stopped up by 'Ellen'. I will admit that 'Ellen' is a biggy....but I want to add my voice to this before I forget this thread is here and my thoughts sink into obscurity... My 'heretical hangup' is that by believing in 'soul sleep' they have said that my everlasting Jesus ceased to exist at His death. Not MY Jesus!! Huh uh honey!! Got news for you!! My Jesus is the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega, the author and finisher of my faith, the everlasting I AM. And it was by the quickening of the spirit that He, at His death, preached to the souls in prison who in the days of Noah had sometimes rejected Him. Jesus Is Enough |
