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djconklin
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 7:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>That's not adultery, it's called bestiality. I don't know that a broad understanding of thou shalt not commit adultery would cover it in this day and age.

I am well aware of the dictionary definitions. However, if one narrowly defines adultery as only being having sex with other humans then you mis what is going on in adultery at its most basic level--it is acting like an animal and using others as one as well.

>>Also, scripture states that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly." Your statement that we ". . . need salvation from our sins, not in them . . ." seems to add words to scripture. I, personally, was saved while I was still a sinner. And, lo and behold, I still am a sinner. Am I then not saved because I am still sinning? (By the way, I sin willfully, knowingly, and purposefully. If I understand sin, it is all willful and purposeful. That's when sin is imputed to us, when we know it's wrong.)

Yes, we are saved while still sinners (that's called justification). And it is true that even during snactification we will still be dealing with our sins. But the difference is our attitude towards our sin(s). As Christians we abhor our sins and seek to <b>overcome</b> them through Christ by faith in God's grace. However, some people <b>presume</b> upon God's grace and continue iin their sins because they still love it.
djconklin
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>Let's not miss the fact that the two greatest commandments were listed outside of the Big 10. The Big 10 are not that Big. The two greatest commandments go right to the heart of the issue. Just as the rich man who came to Jesus did indeed say he kept all God's Commands, and Jesus told him "You do well"...and then to go and sell what he had and give to the poor. Jesus goes to the heart of the matter, not externals.

Sherry, the two that you mentioned are the motive for keeping the 10--they are found in the Pentateuch of the OT.
Richard, Jr.
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 8:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As fallible human beings,[FHB's], we can never know if others have the right motives or attitudes toward grace. Let's consider the other better than ourselves. ON another subject; it's not that SDFadism teaches that the OT explains the NT; It's that they teach that the OT is equal to the NT, therefore a OT text can have veto power over a NT text. That's where the confusion comes in.
Steve
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point, Richard, Jr. I do feel that now I must begin looking to the NT for final answers on those matters it speaks about. One pastor questioned me as follows in recent months about this issue:

"Steve, do you feel that Paul was more inspired than Moses?" That question kept me thinking for a long time. Your statement helps clear some of the confusion. Perhaps I've had the NT in a subordinate position, or maybe just equal to the OT. Maybe it needs to be elevated.

I must admit, it has seemed very confusing.

Your point about considering the other better than ourselves is from Philippians. It's been one of my favorite texts, and one that the Lord continually uses to get my attention.

Thanks,

Steve
sherry
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know they're in the Pentateuch..djconklin...that's why I said "outside the Big 10". The "Big 10" are placed in the Ark of the Covenant - because they partain to the covenant - and the two on which everything hangs are in the Pentateuch...which leads me to ask you, if the "Big 10" sum up everything and are never to be changed, why did our God see fit to leave the two most important commandments outside of the ark of the covenant, and also the whole plan of understanding salvation through the ceremonial system is left outside...there is nothing in the "Big 10" which speaks of salvation through the Blood of Christ. That is only understood in the study of the whole levitical system and Christ was indeed the fulfillment of it all. Jesus, and Him Crucified! He alone is worthy of all our praise and adoration. "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus Blood and Righteousness!" He is my sure foundation. Every other foundation will be destroyed...and has been destroyed through the proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
Colleen Tinker (Colleentinker)
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for that clarification, Richard Jr.! You're exactly right about Adventists considering the OT equal to the NT but with veto power over it. That position in itself is a bit schizophrenic, but you're right; that's how I used to think, and I never really understood that I was actually thinking that way.

No wonder I often felt confused!

Colleen
djconklin
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>it's not that SDFadism teaches that the OT explains the NT; It's that they teach that the OT is equal to the NT, therefore a OT text can have veto power over a NT text.

I was never taught such a thing at any time anywhere by anyone.
djconklin
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>I know they're in the Pentateuch..djconklin...that's why I said "outside the Big 10". The "Big 10" are placed in the Ark of the Covenant - because they partain to the covenant - and the two on which everything hangs are in the Pentateuch...which leads me to ask you, if the "Big 10" sum up everything and are never to be changed, why did our God see fit to leave the two most important commandments outside of the ark of the covenant, and also the whole plan of understanding salvation through the ceremonial system is left outside...
The two were never left outside of the ark--they are the only proper _motive_ (vs. being one of the laws whether moral or ceremonial; nor are they commandments) for keeping the commandments.

Amen to the rest, btw.
BRUCE H
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Djconklin

Could you tell me the meaning of this PARABLE?

LUKE 5:36-39
36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man
putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if
otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and
the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth
not with the old.
37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles;
else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be
spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and
both are preserved.
39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway
desireth new: for he saith, The OLD IS BETTER.

This is a parable and not a guide on how to treat
clothes or store wine because it says it is a
parable, could you explain it for us?

Bruce Heinrich
Bruce H
Posted on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Djconklin

Are you aware that there are 613 commandments in
the Torah (Look in your Adventist Commentary).

The Two great Commandments are,
Commandment #418 (Deut 6:5) this is in the Book of
the Law that went to the side of the ark.
Commandment #243 (Lev 19:18) this is also in the
Book of the Law.

Did you know that if you add up the numerical
value of the Hebrew letters for the Hebrew word
Torah you come up with 613.

I to wanted to Obey everything that God has
commanded because he is my God and he has made me
his son. In my study I went through all 613
commandments and I tried to find a clear difining
line between what was fulfilled and what is
binding. I came up with the conclusion that it is
one package deal it comes as one package, that you
cannot take it apart. Now you can pretend to try
and keep part of it and choose which one you like
and that is all fine and all but it does not
change the fact that you are the one who chooses.
This is why I have reached for the New Covenant
because I do not want to pretend.


Bruce He
djconklin
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 3:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>Could you tell me the meaning of this PARABLE?

LUKE 5:36-39

Nope, haven't studied it.
djconklin
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>Are you aware that there are 613 commandments in the Torah (Look in your Adventist Commentary).

Don't have to look anywhere--already heard about it. Are you aware that only 10 were inside the ark?
Lydell
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

djconklin, try reading Luke 5:36-39 then go to the new discussion "One Size Fits All" it may shed some light on the topic for you.
Lydell
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did anyone else happen to watch the PBS program "1900 House" last night? The program was produced in England. They took a family and put them in a house fully furnished as one would have been in 1900. The experiment being conducted is to see how a modern family could fair living for 3 months in the same style as 1900.

Last night the mother had become totally exasperated with the whole deal of wearing a corset. There was a most interesting point in the program where the teenage daughter was reading from a book about the dangers of wearing corsets. Those words sounded awfuullly familiar! Actually they were identical to what we remember having read that "sister white wrote". Even right down to the disfigurement of the internal organs being "passed on to the next generation". But you know, the girl called the name of the book and the title wasn't one that EGW wrote, at least not that we ever remember hearing. Hmm, could it possibly be that this was another example of her plagarism?
Patti
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds fairly incriminating, doesn't it?
Hmmmmm....
djconklin
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>djconklin, try reading Luke 5:36-39 then go to the new discussion "One Size Fits All" it may shed some light on the topic for you.

Unfortunately my "plate" of activities is full. I just picked up 4 more commentaries on Colossians and 3 journal articles; besides which I'm engaged in contract negotiations with a publisher.
djconklin
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>could it possibly be that this was another example of her plagarism?


The "best" example I have ever run across was a claim on the web that EGW had copied from Harris' book The Great Teacher--unfortunately when I checked the book itself I found that they had clipped the sentance in the "middle" and if you read to the end of the paragraph in both books you very quickly see that there are major differences and no copying whatsoever. Also in the harris book the paragraph began almost two pages earlier whereas in Desire of Ages it is a short paragraph. Needless to say I wasn't very impressed with the alleged evidence--or as my sister said "they're majoring in the minors."
djconklin
Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>>You're exactly right about Adventists considering the OT equal to the NT but with veto power over it.

Again I was never taught such a thing by anyone at anytime anywhere--no wonder "you people" are dissatisfied with the church; you were seriously misled by a bunch of (beg your pardon here) idiots.
Chyna
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are, at best, only under probation to see if you are worthy of eternal life. Testimonies. Volume 1p.199

EGW
Breezy
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2000 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about you guys but I think chyna is max in disguise. Sorry, more subterfuge,it's getting to me.:)

Great sleuthing Chyna!

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