| Author | Message | ||
| bethany |
this "new race" is plainly declared in 1Peter: a chosen people, a holy nation, a people belonging to God that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. what a glorious calling for all of us who love the Lord! | ||
| Jude the Obsucre |
Amen to the above posts. | ||
| Billtwisse |
Colleen, Lydell, Bethany: I add my amen as well! --Twisse | ||
| Lori |
You guys have misconstrued my statements, I never said that sin was ONLY physical. The reality is that, our physical inheritance of the sin nature controls our human soul UNTIL we are spiritually born again. At that point we become trichotimous, as we were initially created to be. When we are born again, we are no longer just body and human soul (dichotimous) as we were physically born, but we are body, human soul and spirit. At that point our soul is at war, which you are right, it is not a war of flesh and blood, it is a war over what is going to control our human soul. The scriptures that were quoted above by Bill are all examples of our command to be 'filled with the spirit'. The command to allow our newly acquired spiritually nature to control our human soul. At any point, after we acquire the spiritual nature we can still be carnal and allow the physical desires of the sin nature to control. This is the war. This explains fully why our body is the only thing left behind when we are received unto God. If our soul was the actual source of sin, why would it be received by God? | ||
| George |
Jude I think the mystery in your post of May 22 am is the vindication of God's goodness and that His way is best. Why else would He creat us just to save us. He didn't have to do it that way you know. George | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Thanks, Lori, It is quite possible that I have misconstrued some of your expressions, for I am far from perfect (in and of myself) as the Lord knows. I do, however, have a bit of a problem thinking of receiving the Holy Spirit as a COMMAND of God to us. Does God EVER command us to receive his Holy Spirit? Jude | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Thanks for that insight, George. Blessings, Jude | ||
| Lori |
Jude, I didn't say he commanded us to "receive" his spirit. I said, "the command to be FILLED with the spirit". We are not commanded to receive the spirit, we have nothing to do with receiving the spirit, it is automatic upon our acceptance of Christ. But he does command believers to be filled with the spirit, which is something entirely different from the indwelling of the spirit that we acquire at salvation. If we are not filled with the spirit (and I'm not talking about speaking in tongues, etc.) how do we do 'God's work', lets face it, if we aren't filled with the spirit (allowing the spirit to control our mind) then we are only producing, at best, human good. (Human good is 'no good' to God.) To be productive for God, we must produce 'divine good'. I am kind surprised that you don't understand this..............you studied Greek, didn't you? (You drop Greek phrases from time to time and you were a theology major weren't you?) so I figure you must know some Greek. (I realize that there is a vast difference in taking a Greek class and actually, fluently, understanding the meaning and proper interpretation of ancient Greek.) At any rate, in the Greek translation the differences of the filling of the spirit, indwelling, etc...the command to be filled with the spirit are much more pronounced. Off the subject, for a moment--because this is what is running through my mind right now----that I have felt the necessity to not post here anymore-- months ago--and have posted anyway, but I clearly see now that with the knowledge that I have gained from studying from the original language and learning the depth behind the Greek that there is no way, in short messages, that I can possibly pass along what I have learned. It is only causing confusion. And, there's already enough of that already, so I certainly don't need to add more. God doesn't need me here anymore, he needs me elsewhere and I don't have time for both, I need to do his will. So I won't be posting here anymore.......I will come back to post the clarification that can be found 'in the original' about the genetic inheritance of sin. Just for your information....... Back to the subject----I re-read my post, I did clearly write that we were commanded to be 'filled with the spirit', not commanded to 'receive the spirit'. In my mind these are two completely different things, but they must not be in yours.....in the Greek, they are not the same. Here is the answer to your question: Here's just one command to be filled with the spirit (there are others), Ephesians 5:18 "Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the spirit." Most people use this to say you shouldn't drink, but the command "be filled with the spirit" is simply said in contrast to getting drunk. (don't get filled up on wine and be drunk, instead be filled with the spirit!) The statement "be filled with the spirit", is just as much a command as "be ye holy".............. It's been a real pleasure to converse with all of you, this website is a great ministry for 'the truth that will set you free'----I am confident that all who come here with a sincere heart will find the grace of God!!! Lori | ||
| Plain Patti |
I just had a revelation this morning. Now you are probably light years ahead of me on this, but it just now occurred to me, the meaning of this text: Hebrews 4:15: For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. The revelation: Jesus was tempted in every way, just as we are tempted in every way. That doesn't mean He experienced the very same temptations that we do. It means He experienced the full gamut of temptations in His realm. His temptations were to not finish the work of salvation, or to circumvent the work by the use of His divine powers to remove Himself from the situation entirely. It does not mean that He had a sinful human nature and suffered from the same petty temptations that we do. Otherwise, the next verse would not make senss: 16 Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. How can we have confidence when we approach the throne of grace if we are still expecting that we will overcome just as Jesus overcame? And why would we still need mercy and grace if we have overcome all sin in our lives? | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Lori, I'll miss you. -Jude | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Patti, Praising God for your revelation and insight, Jude | ||
| Colleentinker |
Lori, I'll miss you, too!óColleen | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Lori, Yeh, you will be missed! Actually, you have already been missed a lot in the last month or so. I will forever be thankful that you followed the Holy Spirit's promptings when you started the "Once Saved Always Saved Thread". That is where George got his kick start. You so faithfully stuck with him and I thank you for that. Now he knows that God is a loving, faithful and kind God that emptied Himself and heaven for him;-)) Praise God! Great success in your other endevors....Maryann | ||
| Plain Patti |
Just Venting: I have been having quite a time fighting the extremely vile and corrupt doctrine of the sinful nature of Christ on another forum (Adventist Issues). I cannot for the life of me understand why a self-proclaimed Christian (let alone the most part of a whole "evangelical Christian" denomination who claims to be the "only true heirs of the Reformation!) would stand valiantly and bravely defending the sinfulness of their Savior's human flesh, while touting man's ability to conquer sin in his life. I don't get it. | ||
| Billtwisse |
Patti, While I know that you have often differed with me, I experience the same frustration as you! I don't get it either. I have given up trying to comprehend the perverse thinking of some people. --Twisse | ||
| Max |
Bill and Patti, I tend to call such thinking "dysfunctional." When you get into a detailed discussion with such people your learn -- slowly but surely -- that their dysfunctional thinking stems from their dysfunctional lives, which they are in denial about and therefore can't deal with. You know the old joke, "De Nile ain't just a river in Africa." At this point in the discussion, I simply back off, like you two do. But I do try to "come back" again later, after the electric hair has smoothed down. My approach the second time around is different, more tailored to their dysfunction -- if they tell me what it is or I can figure it out. Remember, Paul said, "I became all things to all men so that by some means I might save some." I don't worry if they slap me down a second time. "We wrestle not against flesh and blood." In peace, Max | ||
| Cindy |
Max, you quoted from a passage of Scripture that I have tried to apply to my life, especially in living among those who I feel live "under the Law" as the Judaizers of Pauls' time. 2 Corinthians 9:19-23 says, "Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its' blessings". I have tried for many years to live this way and, to tell you the truth, at times I have felt like a hypocrite. I want to live freely in Christ and realize there are times when I have to stand up against hard-core legalism. Paul sure was outspoken to the Galations when he needed to be: ("you foolish Galations! Who has bewitched you?" and later, "you who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace". I guess what I'm trying to say is that I know the Holy Spirit has been promised to us to guide us in what to say and when to speak up and when to remain silent. I pray that I will always be open to His leading. Free under Christs' law. Cindy | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Cindy, I'm still working on a post that will cover some of your issues. Hypocrocy is a word that is constantly tossed at Christians. I realize that a lot of times, if the shoe fits, wear it. But that accusation does NOT always mean one has to wear that shoe! I kinda think that Christians sometimes are to afraid of being called a hypocrite. What I'm working on will go under the thread, "Witness in the Workplace". I expect it will either fly high or crash hard, depending on who reads it. Maryann | ||
| Max |
Cindy, Thank you for quoting "that precious passage" in fullness. It's one of my all-time favorites. I remember, when taking Greek in seminary, translating that passage from Greek into English. And it wasn't even an assignment. There were too many people in class who were saying that Paul wasn't a very good writer. And, indeed, his grammar sometimes gives translators fits. But he had a wonderful poetic gift that comes through in Greek, but is very nearly impossible to put into English. But I tried. My method: I did a literal, word-for-word translation. Really! And it worked! Paul's poem came through! In fact, I'll share it with you. Here it is: THE APOSTLE Although from all men I am free, I made myself a slave to all so I could gain the more: I became to the Jews a Jew so I could gain the Jews. To those beneath the law as one beneath the law (not myself beneath the law) so those beneath the law I could gain. To those outside the law as one outside the law (not outside the law of God but inside the law of Christ) so those outside the law I could gain. I became to weak ones weak so I could gain the weak. All things to all I have become so that at least I might save some. --a literal translation of 1 Corinthians 9:19-21 by Max Gordon Phillips It lets you see Paul's "precious" side, that wonderful, dogged Christian's great Christ-driven love for other human beings, no matter what their race, creed, color, social standing, wealth. Nothing but nothing stood in his way! What an example! What a testimony about the transforming power of the gospel -- to take a man who was murdering Christians and make him into a man with such a burden to bear! Praising God for you, Cindy, that you could wring this out of me after all of these years. And still not under law, Max | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, You know, thumbing through your notes would really be an experience! That is out of the question as it would probably take years! How in the world can you catalog them to put your finger on what you want? Just shaking my head.....Maryann |
