| Author | Message | ||
| Julia |
Hello every one, I have been visiting this site for a while but this my first post. I became an adventist 15 years ago after attending a seminar. Now that I have had my eyes opened to the real truth I am having a hard time finding another church home. I live in a rural area and know of no other ex-adventists inmy area. I have children so I should find a church home soon. I was visiting a very nice one but then the pastor started preaching about sinners burning in hell for ever and ever and now I'm not sure that's what I want my family to learn either. How do you find a good church? | ||
| Plain Patti |
Julia, You have asked a difficult question. I believe the first thing one must do is to try an shake off the feeling that there is a "right" or a "true" church out there. Then just shop around. I enjoy the Methodists, 1. because of their acceptance, 2. because of their lack of dogmaticism, 3. because of their altar Communion--I think it is a beautiful service. But I have worshipped comfortably with the Lutherans, the Disciples, the Presbyterians, and the Episcopalians. I am not comfortable with any denomination that puts a prerequisite on my salvation. For me, this means Baptist, Assembly, C of C, etc. Having said that, let me share something else that I have discovered. It is not the denomination that matters nearly as much as the chemistry of the individual congregation. I have been in mainstream churches that were hateful and judgmental. So, again, my best advice is to church-hop for awhile until you find one in which you are comfortable. Remember: you will never find a denomination that meets all of your theological criteria. But you will meet some lovely Christians. Good luck. Patti | ||
| Lynn W |
Patti, if you got the impression that AofG has any prerequisites for salvation, someone steered you wrong. Their "requisite" for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ...period - in writing as well as in practice. They are very adamant about that. They are very dead set against any works-salvation. I realize that doesn't mean a wayward pastor doesn't come along and misrepresent them from time to time just like in any other church. I'm not AofG, but I was for several years, & their doctrine is right on the money. They don't have a thick book of 27FD, their official 16 doctrines fit on a small pamplet with nothing but faith in Jesus and His atoning work as a requirement for salvation. They are very careful to separate the salvation experience from baptism, church membership, gifts of the Spirit, etc. Unfortunately, their are still some old-time AG who put undue emphasis on the need for speaking in tongues, but they are speaking for themselves, and in 18 years as AG, we never heard even them say it was a requirement for salvation, just another, separate experience. If someone taught you otherwise, he was not representing official doctrine. But, it's bound to happen in any church. :^) | ||
| Steve |
Hi, I agree with Julia that there is no "True Church" in this world. The True Church is made up of all true believers in Christ. This is the Church Invisible as taught by so many great Christians over the millennia. I also agree with Lynn, the AofG is a wonderful Christ-centered church. If the tongues issue isn't emphasized it can be a great experience. I received a great blessing by reading Walter Martin's book The Kingdom of the Cults. He died in 1989. I've recently been in touch with his daughter. She wrote to me saying that her father probably would have included SDAism as a cult later in life. What the book did for me (although I strayed from some of it in joining SDA) was center me in some of the basics of the gospel. I'm trying to go back to that now. For me, the one of the main things in finding a new church, is to make sure that they hold many of the main teachings in common with all other evangelical churches, and that they don't claim to be the only True church (or the "truest" one around). Keep in touch with those at FAF and they will continue to be by your side in prayer. My few contacts with them have been great blessings. And of course, pray for the Holy Spirit, for He will guide you into all truth. BTW, the FAF here in Southern California meets in an Evangelical Free church. I've met many EV FREE's, as I've heard them referred to in the past. In every case, a dozen or so over the years, they have been very gospel oriented, Christ centered, and full of Grace. One EV FREE Greek and Hebrew profesor I knew in New Mexico was wonderful. He taught me Greek for about a year. His skill in the Word of God was a blessing to me. It's also good to bounce ideas off of others about the different churches. Most Ex-SDAs that I've met at FAF and over the internet will not steer you into another dogmatic, "We're right and everyone else is wrong" type of church. God Bless you in your search, Steve | ||
| Bruce H |
Julia I would get down on my knees and ask the lord for Help in finding a church. Visit some other churches God will make it clear to you what his will is. Wait and be patient and trust that he will do it, God did not call you out of the Adventist Church to be on your own, he has a plan for you ask him and wait. Our prayers are with you. Buy the way I hope you got the books and stuff I sent you I will call you back. Bruce Heinrich bh | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Steve, I'm very interested in your contact with the daughter of Walter Martin who wrote The Kingdom of the Cults and died in 1989. You said, "She wrote to me saying that her father probably would have included SDAism as a cult later in life." Do you think you could get a verbatim statement from her that she would allow us to post here on this FAF website? Could be an important and newsworthy contribution to our mission here. And, by the way, I admire your courage in Christ to step out. I know your situation is extremely touchy. But many people are praying for you. In Christ, Jude | ||
| Julia |
Bruce H, Yes, I did get the two books that you sent. They are wonderful. It just makes me wonder why I couldn't see all this sooner. BTW I was talking to a second gen. adventist the other day and she was saying how she "hopes" to make it into heaven.I have heard this from others. Even sabbath school teachers. I quoted Jn.3:16 to her. I still get that "not good enough" feeling from time to time. Resting in his complete grace is almost too good to believe. An adventist did bring up the "cheap grace" thing to me. I told him I don't call it cheap I call it Amazing Grace! Thank you again for the books. What a wonderful ministry you have. Julia | ||
| Bruce H |
Julia The reason Adventist call it Cheap Grace is because they think that they are the ones that are paying and if it is free then it is cheap, but you through the Holy Spirit can see how expenive grace is it coust the God of this universe everything. God will guide you and if you doubt ask God for Faith he will give as your need require. Bruce Heinrich | ||
| Steve Pitcher |
Hi Jude & All, I was greatly influenced by Walter Martin early in my Christian life. Then, for quite a number of years, I felt that he was wrong about the sabbath, the investigative judgment, etc. However, based on the last 15 years, I think he was much too easy on SDAism. I've contacted his daughter, Jill Martin Rische, via e-mail. (When I "talk" to her this way, it often takes weeks before I hear from her. I may use snail-mail to get this request into her.) I've asked her if she would be re-send her comment to me, and if she would be willing to make a public statement about her father's position later in life. His book, The Kingdom of the Cults, has been rated as one of the 5 most influential books of the last century. Although many have hated the man for what he wrote, almost all say that his research was impeccable. When he died, the Adventist Review carried a very small article about his death, mentioning his influence in getting the SDA church to publish Questions On Doctrine. Most Adventists I've known over the years, including the head of the Biblical Research Institute, felt that the book was a betrayal by very liberal SDAs. Now, I'm realizing just how incredible of a man he was. Not just to me, but to the evangelical Christian world in general. When he contacted various religious organizations in this country, those organizations were never the same -- for better or worse. I'll keep you all posted as to what I can get from Jill Martin Rische. (I'll probably also contact her husband, Kevin Rische. I think he's in seminary right now, but might be able to help out with this.) Steve | ||
| Lynn W |
In 1988 (while Walter Martin was still the publisher) the Christian Research Journal printed an article called "From Controversy to Crisis: An Updated Assessment of Seventh-day Adventism". The intro says: "Three decades ago Donald Grey Barnhouse and Walter Martin created controversy in the evangelical word when they declared that Seventh-day Adventism (SDA) was not a non-Christian cult, but rather a heterodox Christian denomination. Since then controversy has rocked SDA from within, resulting in a crisis that has necessitated an updated evaluation of the sect. Kenneth R Samples provides this as he describes the crisis and the events that led up to it." Some quotes from the article: While QOD [Questions on Doctrine] is considered to be the origin of Evangelical Adventism, it also fueled the fire for those who supported Traditional Adventism. Following its publication, M.L. Andreasen, a respected Adventist scholar, severly criticized QOD, stating that in his opinion it had sold Adventism down the river to the evangelicals. Several years later, under Robert Pierson's administration, two prominent scholars, Kenneth Wood and Herbert Douglass, declared that the publishing of QOD had been a major mistake." "Besides their compromising stance on justification, Traditional Adventism seems bent on making Ellen G. White the infallible interpreter of Scripture." "Adventists must understand that if they elevate Ellen White to the position of infallible interpreter, then the dramatic irony of the ages has come true - SDA has a Pope." "It must also be stated that if the traditional camp continues in its departure from QOD, and in promoting Ellen White as the church's infallible interpreter, then they could one day be fully deserving of the title 'cult', as some Adventists recognize." More to come. Stay tuned. | ||
| Warren Carter-Turnham |
Dear FAF Brethren, You are off the Track!!!! Satan has deceived you and you have been caught up in satan's last great deceptions- both of making the Spirit of prophecy void, and regecting the truth of SDAs. YES, there are problems,BIG PROBLEMS and evils in the church, but is this not the work of Satan? All those who perpetrate evil in God's remnant will be sifted out, but our church holds firmly to the bible and the SoP. If you knew what Our dear Sister White said on this subject..... You are arising as false teachers and are deceiving many. We have been warned to take heed , and to reject your false doctrines and deceptions. I PRAY that your eyes will be opened and that you will return to the Commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus. | ||
| Colleen Tinker (Colleentinker) |
Dear Warren, Yes, we do know what Ellen White says on this subject. And we appreciate your concern for us. We will add you to the names of those we pray for on this site. We pray that you will be open to knowing truthówhich is found only in Jesus Christ through His word, the Bible. Grace and peace to you, Warren. Colleen | ||
| sherry |
Warren, the unexamined faith isn't a faith worth living. It is our own church forefathers who said things of Ellen White that showed they wanted people to believe her writings were all inspired and to never deal with the acts of plaegerism which are laid out clearly from our own person in the church, Fred Veltman, on her plagerism in "Desire of Ages" as well as former pastors who stumbled unto the truth. It is an aweful thing to be decieved so like that. But again I say, the unexamined faith isn't faith worth living. For me, and I believe I speak for many of us, it was a painful ride, one we didn't expect to take. But it is truthful. I pray that you are willing to examine your faith too. God is a great and awesome God, and Jesus is our Lord and Savior, and friend and brother. God bless. | ||
| Max |
Dear Warren, Thank you for your concern over us. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise. Can you prove from Scripture alone: That the Spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit? That God's "remnant" is the Seventh-day Adventist church? That "the commandments of God" as used in the New Testament are anything other than the commandments of Jesus as spoken in the New Testament? That "the testimony of Jesus" is anything other than the gospel? Praying for you, Max | ||
| Bruce H |
Hi Warren Could you tell us a little bit about yourself. | ||
| Question |
We have open eyes and hearts. Welcome. | ||
| Free Man |
Hi Warren, Thanks for your concern.Six months ago I may have echoed the very things you said in loyal defense of Gods SDA remnant Church because I thought EGW was God's inspired mouthpiece conveying His will to us through her writings.Oh yes,I had heard rumblings of her "borrowing" of literary gems she used in her writings but dismissed them asinsignificant because after all;it was accepted practice in her day to do so..no one really cared. However,a recent reading of Internet sites similar to this and reading the facts of the matter have put her whole "Prophetic" ministry in a new light for me.You see, many SDA's are believing what they have been told and read for themselves in her writings..honestly thinking themto be truth.However,the SDA church will not provide you with "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey likes to put it.Let me ask a rhetorical question Warren;how would you like to be called to jury duty and be expected to render a verdict in court after all the testimony has been heard? How would you like to make a life-or-death decision/verdict?Pretty solemn thought-but now let's add alittle twist to the plot and say that you are expected to listen to only one side of the testimony of the witnesses--say for example -only the prosecutions side. Each time a witness for the defense were to give testimony,you would be ushered outof the courtroom until they were finished. What confidence could you have at trials end of your verdict without hearing all testimony? Doesn't the Bible say something about judging a matter before you hear it? Thank God for the Internet and caring Christian people who dare to speak Biblical truth. I have had exponential growth in the truth of the Gospel of Gods grace since finding out the rest of the story on EGW. I don'tmean to offend but my wife and I took her "to the wall"," all the way" etc.We were immersed in her counsel and let her run our lives .But the interesting thing is when I tell my family and friends I don't believe in her I have yet to have them ask me the reason why--I would think that they would like to look at some facts from history and most importantly-the BIBLE but to a great extent this has not happened. Don't be afraid to look at the facts Warren. Keep posting and pray for truth to be revealed. Bye for now. p.s Where the Spirit of the Lord is,There is FREEDOM!!! | ||
| Jtree |
Whoa...go Sherry, go free man, you got it. Warren now your here, may you <b>get it also</b>. WWYD, If you knew Ellen G. White contradicted herself? Standing on the ROCK, and not the table of Stone. Here is a link to help you on your way to Freedom. http://www.geocities.com/jtree_98/Main_Adventpage.html | ||
| Timo |
Hi Warren, My first impression about this site was another than I have today. I thought that people here are "throwing the baby with the bathwater". I almost thought that FAF wanted to throw all adventist into hell. After following this list more and more, I have found that love is a much bigger motivation for this site than frustration and pain. Already before I started to read FAF, I understood the problems with EGW and specially the IJ. But I thought that this site is to get back to SDA-church, who might have caused so much pain to many. So I was litle bit critical in the beginning. Also I thought that same of the tactics is to "freeze out" all those who do not agree by ignoring the posts they send. I have found now that it is not so much ignoring, than that there might not be so much to be said about that particular post. I am also sometimes ignoring people in the two finnish forums where I write. At the moment, I am positive toward this site and have learned a lot here. Of course none of the writers are perfect, but this site is not a "get even" site, but a site of conserned Christian people, who would like to share Jesus to all who are burdened by the Old Covenant. timo | ||
| jtree |
Timo, that is a wonderful and beautiful testimony about your experience here. PRAISE GOD... |
