| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
FAFF Reader Poll: DOES SALVATION CHANGE OUR LIVES? Iíd like to start a poll of FAFF readers -- especially those who may never or only rarely have posted here before. But also one and all. Iíd like you to answer three questions: 1. Did salvation change your life? 2. Have you seen salvation change other lives? 3. Do you have any Scripture to support your answers? Iíll start: 1. Yes, salvation has changed my life for the better. Tremendously, though there are still many problems in my pilgrim walk. 2. Yes, I have observed great changes in the lives of others after they have accepted Christ as their personal Savior. 3. My text is 2 corinthians 5:16-18 NIV: So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is A NEW CREATION; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation. Thanks and God bless you, Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max, Great thread! If I can ever get back to my project, I have a similar one to start. 1. Did salvation change your life? Absolutely, yes! Having a God-clad assurance of my salvation changes one's outlook on everything. John 5:24..."Truly, truly, I say unto you, he who hears my word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life." In other words, the judgement of the believer is behind him and the judgement of the un-believer is in front of him! (remember the investigative judgement?) 2. Have you seen salvation change other lives? Absolutely, yes! Luke 6:44-45..."For each tree is know by it own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. 45...The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart." I have seen firsthand, people who's lives have changed. I have heard even more testimonies of those wonderful, non-critical, gospel believing Christians that this world is full of as to what their lives were like BEFORE Christ. Upward and onward.....Maryann | ||
| Dan |
Greetings Max and Maryann. This is my first time to post on this forum. Are you less sinful now than you were before you were converted? Is this the improvement you are speaking of? Thanks, Dan | ||
| Shereen |
1. Did salvation change your life? Without a doubt! 2. Have you seen salvation change other lives? Yes. 3. Do you have any Scripture to support your answers? Jer. 29:11-13 For I know the plans I have for you , says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. In those days when you pray, I will listen. You will find me when you seek me, if you look for me in earnest. I hold this verse to my heart daily. I get so frustrated and feel so hopeless at times. I have a bad habit of forgetting where I was and where God has brought me thus far but I do know that He has plans for me. I pray every day to fit into His plans. I get kind of excited wondering what His plans are. I also have a saying by my desk at work that I read to help me. Difficulty is actually the atomosphere surrounding a miracle, or a miracle in its initial stage. Yet if it is to be a great miracle, the surrounding condition will be not simply a difficulty but an utter impossibility. And, it is the clinging hand of His child that makes a desperate situation a delight to God. Hold on to your faith in God!! | ||
| Shereen |
Dan, I know you posted to Maryann & Max but I wanted to answer. I feel, and I don't know if it is right or wrong but it is my feeling for my situation, that I am just as sinful now as I ever was. The big difference is that I used to pray for forgiveness all the time and now I pray for help more and forgivness less. My thoughts and feelings don't become actions nearly as much these days but without God there to help me, I would be the favourite of satan. I used to wonder why I was sooooo evil in thought and deed. Praise God that He has His arms around me and whispers in my ears all the time, the directions I need and forgives me all my thoughts and makes me want to do what is good. | ||
| Lorinc |
1. Did salvation change your life? Yes, though I sometimes "envy" my fellow Christians who have such dramatic conversion stories to tell. I can't tell about deliverance from any interesting, spectacular sin; even before conversion I was an a temperate, polite, boy scout type of person (though, without Christ, I was just as lost as the most wicked miscreant, I must add!) For me, the change was internal: from a totally self-centered worldview to a Christ-centered worldview, which included a new concern for others. Also the peace that comes from our "eternal perspective"; I no longer had to climb the ladder at work to feel worthwhile, etc. 2. Have you seen salvation change other lives? Not many -- but that's because I need to get out more! :-) My friends tend to be either existing Christians, or agnostics who aren't even looking. I guess I haven't witnessed that many conversions. 3. Do you have any Scripture to support your answers? John 3:something - "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." This one hits home for me, because my human nature tends to be rather perfectionistic and fault-finding. This text reminds me of God's focus -- our redemption. - Lorin | ||
| Lorinc |
Hi Dan, and welcome! You asked Max and Maryann, but I'll throw in my $0.02 for free as well: Am I "less sinful" ? Hmmm.... I'll say, "Yes." After all, although only Justification is salvific, Sanctification is real, too, right? I would hope that the indwelling Holy Spirit is having *some* sort of qualitative effect on me --- rather than just riding around inside this depraved mortal body, being "grieved" at what I do. However, I reject the idea that this work of the Spirit will take me to a state of sinless perfection in this lifetime. I also reject the idea that any improvement in my "works" contributes in any way to my salvation. (Had to get those clarifications in there! :-) Alas, the changes wrought in me cannot even be *measured* using the yardstick of God's Holiness. But they're real, nonetheless. In Christ, Lorin | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Dan, Welcome!! Great to have on board. Great question you asked: "Are you less sinful now than you were before you were converted? Is this the improvement you are speaking of?" NO! and NO! In God's sight, my deeds in and of themselves are just as disgusting as before. The BEST of "MY" deeds are just as nasty to God as my WORST deeds before I was saved. As long as I am on this earth and in this carnal body, everything "I" do is as a filthy rag to God. BUT... Now that I'm a believer in the life, death, resurrection, ascension and SITTING at the righthand of God having fully paid for all my sins, past, present and future, I now have the Holy Spirit working in me. Part of His work in me is to make my life a witness to others. This work has NOTHING to do with my salvation. Because my salvation is already mine!! I COULDN'T do anything for do anything for my salvation anyway. As I've said before: "Fruits of the Spirit" are produced BECAUSE I'm saved NOT TO BE SAVED! So, am I LESS sinful now then before conversion? My human actions that are seen by other's, such as co-worker's that I used to really act awful around, have made a dramatic change. So, from a human onlookers point of view, I "SIN" less. (I'm sure that I will get hammered for that statement;-) This is what gets them to ask me, "what made the change in your life?" From God's point of view, I am "SIN" full in "MY" deeds actions and thoughts. Through Jesus though.....I AM SINLESS to God!!!! Jesus changes lives. Just look at Shereen's testamony!;-)) What would her kids, family, co-worker's think of God if she claimed to be saved and still lived the life she used to do. Her "foot in the door" to witnessing to other's is HER CHANGED LIFE. Hope to hear more from you........Maryann | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Lorin, This is cool!;-)) And this is what causes so much grief, strife and so on with so many people. Dan asked: "Are you less sinful now than you were before you were converted? Is this the improvement you are speaking of?" I answered no and you answered yes;-)) We are BOTH right! My answer, "NO," was assuming that Dan was asking if God thought I was less sinful and your answer, "YES," was assuming that he ment in our life here on earth as a witness. My goodness, gracious sakes alive!! I hope others can see that! As to the thing you said: "Yes, though I sometimes "envy" my fellow Christians who have such dramatic conversion stories to tell. I can't tell about deliverance from any interesting, spectacular sin; even before conversion I was an a temperate, polite, boy scout type of person (though, without Christ, I was just as lost as the most wicked miscreant, I must add!) For me, the change was internal: from a totally self-centered worldview to a Christ-centered worldview, which included a new concern for others. Also the peace that comes from our "eternal perspective"; I no longer had to climb the ladder at at work to feel worthwhile, etc." That is something I illuded to in the last few days! Could it be that the people that are soooooo against any talk of "the fruits of the Spirit" have always been the good Christian people that had a "theology" shift. When a person has come from some pretty "devil like" behavior to "Christ like" behavior, people notice and want to know what changed your life!!!! Don't envy the ones that have had dramatic "outward" changes!! You may be the one that can get through to the mindset that "fruits of the Spirit" do NOT have much of a place in the life of a Christian's testamony! I'm so happy that you are here on this forum. How about more about your exodus, what part of the country you hail from and what age decade you fall into? Upward and onward.....Maryann | ||
| Lorinc |
Hi Maryann, You wrote: >How about more about your exodus, what part >of the country you hail from and what age >decade you fall into? In my mid 30's, ten years as as Adventist, moved to the Boston area this year, after two years in Phoenix, Arizona. Before that, ten years in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hoping to stay put for awhile! I'd be happy to post more gory details; is there a more appropriate place? I don't want to "obscure" Max's interesting poll with my biography! :-) Speaking of which, why isn't anyone else answering Max's questions? C'mon, lurkers ! :-) I was a member of the silent "cloud of witnesses" myself until a couple days ago. It's fun in here -- really! - Lorin | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Lorin, You wrote: "I'd be happy to post more gory details; is there a more appropriate place? I don't want to "obscure" Max's interesting poll with my biography! :-)" How about start a new thread called "ESCAPE FROM LEGALISM"? When you said you didn't want to obscure Max's poll, you may not realize that, that is very funny! Max posted for the first year here as Jude the Obscure!" :):).......Maryann | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Did Salvation change my life? YES. When I realized, and I mean REALIZED that a God/Man died for immoral, sinful me, this was astounding. I couldn't understand why God loved me so much. The more I thought on this the more I wanted to give something back to the Lord. I realized, that what I had to give was nothing compared to what He has given me. My mind was perplexed. I had been given the biggest and best gift and all things in this world would never compare to that. Joy came rushing in at the thought of how this God of ours really really does love us. From there, things just started changing inside of me. My life would be going nowhere and people would be crowding me to the point that I wanted to jump of the bridge as it were. Instead though what would happen is in my mind I could see something beyond all this. Something much much higher and beautiful. In my mind I would start picturing the eternal life with our Lord Jesus Christ. Well, needless to say, I found my refuge. Jesus Christ. I have hope and I mean HOPE and excitement. With that it extends to those I know. I can share that Blessed Hope. I am not sure that I've seen others experience an excitement like I have. I know many Christians but they seem to take all this for granted. Some even believe that they must work and work and strive to be just like Jesus to have this hope. I find this sad. These are some of the ones I try to share the Good News with. Some will not hear it though. Why??? Scripture I'll use is Ephesians 2:8-10 For it is by grace you have been saved, throught faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God-not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in ADVANCE for us to do. | ||
| Dale |
I love all the great responses to this thread! What wonderful testimonies. 1. Did salvation change your life? Absolutely! I spent most of my life (4th generation SDA) in fear of Christ's second-coming (or my death) because I knew that I had not overcome sin in my life and achieved the level of character perfection that would grant me eternal life. Now I rest assured that by grace and grace alone, I AM SAVED! 2. Have you seen salvation change other lives? Yes, many of us with similar legalistic backgrounds have walked the path together into an understanding of grace. The joy that abounds from freedom in Christ is absolutely amazing! 3. Do you have any Scripture to support your answers? "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13. Haven't posted for awhile but have been checking in periodically and appreciate the forum. It is therapeutic and spiritually uplifting to read your thoughts! Free in Christ! | ||
| Patti |
If our Christian witness is about our changed lives, what happens to our witness when we fall on our faces (as we are certainly prone to do)? | ||
| Dale |
Patti, There is a great song out there that to me answers your question... "We fall down, we get up". The Holy Spirit within allows us to get back up. Still Praising Him, Dale | ||
| Patti |
True. But what has happened to our "witness" in the meantime? If we witness to our regeneration, we are witnessing to an incomplete and faulty work. | ||
| Dale |
I think that our witness has to be one of honesty and like Paul, we have to acknowledge our sinful natures and propensity to do that which defies our spiritual nature. Our "incomplete and faulty work" only strengthens the message of the gospel and our need of grace. Most of those to whom we witness, I believe, prefer honesty and a recognition of our human weaknesses. The goal in witnessing is to point the way to the complete and perfect work of Jesus Christ rather than our own incomplete and faulty work. I fully understand your question and realize that people will be critical when we fall on our faces but in time, if we demonstrate His love, they will see past our unrighteousness to His righteousness. Anyone hoping to see perfection in me will be sorely disappointed! We naturally all want to appear perfect in our witness but I have found in my own life that I end up being a phony with an outward appearance; boastful and looking at what I have done instead of the One living within me. My past, legalistic life, unfortunately, has been well described by my last sentence! Now my goal in witnessing is to "get out of the way" so Christ can be glorified! Amazed by Grace Dale | ||
| Patti |
Dale, I am going to disagree with you a bit. (Taking advantage of your innate agreeable nature! J Our witness should never, never, never, never, never, NEVER, be to our own lives or our own righteousness. Our witness, the only witness that has any credibility or any consistency, should be to the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ, to the all-sufficiency of His saving work for us, to the perfection and worthiness of the Lamb. It is the only testimony that will stand though the heavens fall; it is the only testimony to the only Way to the Father, the only Truth unto salvation, and to eternal Life. | ||
| Dale |
Patti, Yes, today I am in an agreeable mood! Actually what you so eloquently said is what I thought I was saying! "The goal in witnessing is to point the way to the complete and perfect work of Jesus Christ rather than our own incomplete and faulty work." We take too much credit, or blame, (we deserve NONE) when others accept or don't accept our Lord Jesus Christ based on "our witness". This is the work of the Holy Spirit! Inately Agreeable, Dale | ||
| Patti |
I apologize, Dale. I think I posted my post before I read yours. In other words, I thought I understood what it appeared like you meant to say, but I only understood what I thought that it appeared that you meant to say, and not what you actually said. Got that? J And, yes, you are very agreeable. |
