| Author | Message | ||
| Patti |
I thought that this very important passage of the teachings of Jesus was worthy of an entire thread. I am starting it off with the Beatitudes. I hope that you will join in also. THE BEATITUDES Have you taken a close look at the beatitudes? They are the blessings that those who believe in Christ will receive. Every one of these finds its perfect fulfillment in Christ. And we have all blessings, including these, when we believe in Him. 3. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. How much poorer in spirit can we be than to realize that we are totally sinful and totally helpless to save ourselves? That we are always totally dependent upon the mercy of God for our salvation? Jesus Christ on earth fulfilled this one for us in that He debased Himself to the form of a servant. 4. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. We are blessed when we mourn. Although it does not specify exactly what we are bewailing, it would include mourning for our terribly sinful conditions. One cannot thank God for his/her character on the one hand (like the Pharisee) and mourn like the Publican on the other. Jesus Christ fulfilled this one also, when He mourned His chosen people who would not come to Him for salvation. 5. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. How much meeker can we be than to acknowledge our total dependence upon the work of Jesus Christ for our salvation? Christ was the epitome of meekness. He, God, veiled Himself in the likeness of humanity and humbled--no, debased--Himself to become sin for us, even to the death on the cross. 6. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. A wonderful promise for all who long to be made right with God. By faith, and before God, we are filled with the perfect righteousness of Christ. Not in ourselves--that will happen at the consummation--but in Jesus Christ. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and HIS righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 7. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. "He who is forgiven the most, loves the most." If we believe that we have been forgiven by the mercy of God for the sake of the saving work of our Savior, then we will strive to have mercy on those around us. Just like the parable of the debting servant. God has forgiven us so very much; how can we not forgive our neighbors for their small errors against us. And we obtain mercy because of the work of Jesus Christ on our behalf. 8. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Jesus Christ is the only person on earth to ever be "pure in heart." When we believe in Him, when we trust in His righteousness, we are regarded by God as pure as Jesus Christ Himself, and we know that we will see Him, and that when we see Him (but not before) we will be just like Him. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Jesus is the world's greatest peacemaker, for He made peace between God and a lost human race. In Christ we are sons and daughters of God. 10. Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11. "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. How many millions, down through the centuries, have been persecuted for their faith in the saving work of Jesus Christ? Because they believe that He worked out a perfect righteousness which He gladly imputes to all who believe in Him? If you want to be persecuted, go into a works-oriented religion and proclaim that you stand wholly righteous before God even now, as you speak, in Jesus Christ. The hostility will almost crackle in the air. That is why many people cannot help but call those who preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified all kinds of names. I give you examples on this very forum of Christ-centered, Gospel-oriented messages that have been met with hostility. On other (SDA) forums, the Gospel is met with outright derision and name-calling. Because it is a threat to those who believe that they must produce fruit as a part of their salvation when we preach that Jesus Christ has paid it all already. It was the most amazing thing to me, and part of the reason I left SDAism--the main part. I was so excited when I understood salvation by grace alone. I would try to share it with my SDA peers and friends, but I was constantly met with sarcasm or derision. Those who believe in themselves, in their own conversion and righteousness, those who work to earn something just don't want to hear about someone getting the same thing absolutely free. And that is only an example of a very mild form of persecution. Others throughout the centuries and here and now in our modern world are experiencing much, much worse. The Gospel is salvation by trusting in the efficacy of the work of Jesus Christ. That is why Luther punctuated it by saying by faith ALONE. Our works are not any part of our salvation. They are always filthy rags and we must let go of them and depend upon the mercy of God for the sake of Jesus Christ ALONE. While no one denies our loving response to the grace of Christ, we must always keep in mind that all of our good works being as filthy rags, we do not trust in them in the least to "add to" our salvation. "He who believes and does not work" is justified by faith in Jesus Christ. If we are not saved because of our works, we cannot be lost because of our works either. We are saved or lost only on the basis of whether we have believed in the Son of God. The Beatitudes are blessings; promises made to the remnant of the seed of Abraham. Just who comprises the seed of Abraham? Galatians 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. 15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. The Blessings of the Beatitudes (as well as all of the promises of God's blessings) are made to the faithful. There is only One who was faithful, Jesus Christ, and all of the promises of God are ours when (and only when) we are in Christ. Let me reiterate for emphasis: We already possess all the promises of God in Christ by faith. What greater assurance could we have than that we stand perfectly reconciled to a holy and just God? What more could we want than the assurance of eternal life with our Lord and our God? What more do we need than to know that when this life is over, there is a glorious eternity awaiting us, a life in the very presence of our Savior and our Father? | ||
| Billthompson |
Patti, I am so glad you started this thread. May I suggest a very good (make that great!) book that addresses this subject? It helped me a lot! The book is "The Gospel Solution" by Tom Weaver. Publisher "True Light Press" Bremerton, Washington. (360)830-2734, (800)479-3208 or fax (360)830-2436. Copyrighted 1999. 291 pages, paperback, sells for $18.00. Chapter 7 is dedicated to the Sermon on the Mount. Here are a few snips from this chapter: "If this is what it takes to be a Christian, then I guess I can never be one...How on earth can I ever measure up to this?" Then he quotes another of my favorite authors, Philip Yancey. Yancey said, "The Sermon on the Mount haunted my adolescence..." . The auothor, Tom Weaver goes on to say this, "The main reason Jesus uttered the Sermon on the Mount was to bring people like Tom Weaver to that place where he would admit he was entirely unworthy of being in the presence of a holy God...Why? Because I am hopelessly unable to do any of those things to ever win my salvation...Unfortunately many have tried to sum up Jesus' teaching as the standard for what Christianity is, not realizing it is a standard that only God can Keep." Jesus was preparing the people's heart. He wanted them to see their need for a Saviour. That should be our reaction to those teachings even today. A Sinner Saved By Grace Alone, Bill Thompson | ||
| Dan |
Beautiful Patti, just beautiful. I second Bill's sentiment - I'm glad you started this thread. Here is a favorite quote of mine regarding the Beatitudes. ìA fairly accurate description of the human race might be furnished to one unacquainted with it by taking the Beatitudes, turning them wrong side out and saying, ëHere is your human race.í For the exact opposite of the virtues in the Beatitudes are the very qualities which distinguish human life and conduct. In the world of men we find nothing approaching the virtues of which Jesus spoke in the opening words of the famous Sermon on the Mount. Instead of poverty of spirit we find the rankest kind of pride; instead of mourners we find pleasure seekers; instead of meekness, arrogance; instead of hunger after righteousness we hear men saying, ëI am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothingí; instead of mercy we find cruelty; instead of purity of heart, corrupt imaginings; instead of peacemakers we find men quarrelsome and resentful; instead of rejoicing in mistreatment we find them fighting back back with every weapon at their command.î (Tozer, A.W., The Pursuit of God. Camp Hill, Pennsylvania: Christian Publications, 1982, pp. 103-04.) Dan | ||
| Dan |
Hi Bill! I enjoyed your comments and the quotations you shared. Here is another one I love - in the same vein. ìThe Sermon on the Mount produces despair in the heart of the natural man, and that is the very thing Jesus means it to do, because as soon as we reach the point of despair we are willing to come as paupers to Jesus Christ and receive from Him, ìBlessed are the poor in spiritî ñ that is the first principle of the kingdom. As long as we have a conceited, self-righteous idea that we can do the thing if God will help us, God has to allow us to go on until we break the neck of our ignorance over some obstacle, then we will be willing to come and receive from Him. The bedrock of Jesus Christís kingdom is poverty, not possession; not decisions for Christ, but a sense of absolute futility, ìI cannot begin to do it.î Then, says Jesus, ìBlessed are you.î That is the entrance, and it takes us a long while to believe we are poor. The knowledge of our own poverty brings us to the moral frontier where Jesus Christ worksî (Oswald Chambers, Studies in the Sermon on the Mount, p. 10). The book you mentioned sounds interesting; I had not heard of it before. Dan | ||
| Max |
THE IDEA THAT THE TRUE BELIEVER MUST NOT PRODUCE FRUIT IS TOTALLY UNSCRIPTURAL Scripture says just the opposite. Matthew 7:19-20 NIV, to cite just one example out of many. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Blessings, Max | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Eph. 5:8-13 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everthing exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." God Bless all, Denise | ||
| Dan |
MAX WROTE: "THE IDEA THAT THE TRUE BELIEVER MUST NOT PRODUCE FRUIT IS TOTALLY UNSCRIPTURAL Scripture says just the opposite. Matthew 7:19-20 NIV, to cite just one example out of many. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." ---------------------- It is not that the follower of Christ MUST bear fruit, Max, but that he WILL bear fruit. In fact, the follower of Christ cannot prevent himself from bearing fruit. So why do you think we would ever need a COMMAND in order to produce fruit? That would make no sense whatsoever in that a follower of Christ couldn't fail to bear fruit EVEN IF HE WANTED TO! Do you not believe this? And do you know why that is, MAX? It is because it is God working through the Holy Spirit within us that is producing these fruits - not us. ìIt is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose" (Philippians 2:12, 13). So, again, for God to be giving US the command to produce fruit would make no sense - because the production of fruit is the Holy Spirit's job. You have quoted Matthew 7:19-20, but you overlooked the texts right before it, Matthew 7:17-18, which state that ìevery good tree bears good fruitî and ìa good tree cannot bear bad fruit.î We are ìgood treesî when we are in Christ and as such we WILL bear fruit and it WILL be good fruit ñ this we are PROMISED, not COMMANDED! Christ did not say in Matthew 7:19-20 that the tree was cut down BECAUSE it did not bear fruit. The tree did not bear fruit AND the tree was cut down - there is no statement that the one caused the other. The only reason (cause) any man will be lost is because he does not give up on himself and his own efforts and surrender himself to Christ. The tree (man) is cut down (receives the penalty of death) because he has resisted God's drawing and refused to believe His Son when He said He had already saved him. This man - this tree which is cut down - bore no fruit and was cut down BECAUSE HE HAD NO FAITH! Thank God it is not as you imply it is - that the man had faith but was cut down nevertheless because he didn't produce any (or enough) fruit. You are beating a dead - but deadly - horse here Max. Don't you think it would be better to just give up on all this striving and straining and turn things all over to Jesus? It's nowhere near as hard as you are trying to making it. "My yoke is easy and my burden is light" (Matthew 11:30, NIV). Dan | ||
| Patti |
Dan wrote: In fact, the follower of Christ cannot prevent himself from bearing fruit. So why do you think we would ever need a COMMAND in order to produce fruit? That would make no sense whatsoever in that a follower of Christ couldn't fail to bear fruit EVEN IF HE WANTED TO! Exactly. Just like the difference between being commanded to make one's light shine, and simply letting it shine. Christ did not say in Matthew 7:19-20 that the tree was cut down BECAUSE it did not bear fruit. The tree did not bear fruit AND the tree was cut down - there is no statement that the one caused the other. Excellent point, Dan. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I had never noticed that before. Isn't it amazing how we think we know what a Scripture says, but, upon closer scrutiny, we are remembering what we have been told about that Scripture and not necessarily what it actually says. I find myself in this situation quite frequently and have to check myself (or check the Bible, rather) to see if what I think a certain verse says is actually what it says or if it is residuals of Ellenology. The only reason (cause) any man will be lost is because he does not give up on himself and his own efforts and surrender himself to Christ. The tree (man) is cut down (receives the penalty of death) because he has resisted God's drawing and refused to believe His Son when He said He had already saved him. This man - this tree which is cut down - bore no fruit and was cut down BECAUSE HE HAD NO FAITH! Thank God it is not as you imply it is - that the man had faith but was cut down nevertheless because he didn't produce any (or enough) fruit. Thank you so much, Dan. You have stated very concisely and clearly what I was having trouble verbalizing. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Max |
The assertion that the true believer does not need the commands of Jesus Christ is unscriptural. The truth: 1 John 2:3-6 (NIV) 3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Blessings! | ||
| Max |
Any idea that the true believer has no obligation to bear fruit is without scriptural support. The truth: Romans 8:9-14 NIV: 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers, we have an OBLIGATION--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. Blessings! | ||
| Cindy |
Patti, thank-you for the study on the Sermon on the Mount! I just read the above postings (when I should be getting to bed and getting some sleep!) I am tired tonight and I was feeling very discouraged after some of the things posted on another thread... Bill Thompson...always love what you write! Thank-you! Dan, wonderful, encouraging words! Thank-you! I want to belong to Christ; and I know that I do belong!! He is so much the main Person in my life that I get upset when others misinterpret the emphasis on this complete Righteousness outside of myself as being a call to some kind of immorality or licentiousness. I maintain that the preaching of the gospel of free grace always leads to the possibility of these charges being made against it! As Martin Lloyd Jones wrote, "There is a kind of dangerous element about the true presentation of the doctrine of salvation." I pray that we will have that unity based solely on Jesus and what He has DONE for us, not on what we MUST DO for Him! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Any idea that a good tree (true believer) is cut down because it doesn't produce any or enough fruit is totally without scriptural support. In Scripture good works must spring from faith alone. Here's but one small part of the abundant scriptural evidence. James 2:14-24 NIV: 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. Blessings! | ||
| Max |
Real grace never leads to siniful living. Here's scriptural proof: 1 John 2:9-11(NIV): 9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him. Blessings! | ||
| Max |
Any idea that we believers can have unity based on what we can do for Jesus is unscriptural. Here's the truth: "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32 NIV Blessings! | ||
| Max |
Real grace does not result in sin and licentiousness, for Scripture says (speaking only to true believers): 15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. --1 John 2:15-17 (NIV) Blessings! | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Dan, You said: "It is not that the follower of Christ MUST bear fruit, Max, but that he WILL bear fruit. In fact, the follower of Christ cannot prevent himself from bearing fruit. So why do you think we would ever need a COMMAND in order to produce fruit? That would make no sense whatsoever in that a follower of Christ couldn't fail to bear fruit EVEN IF HE WANTED TO! Do you not believe this?" If my memory serves me anywhere near right, David was a favorite of God. Just what kind of fruit was he bearing with Bathsheba. What kind of fruit was Peter bearing when he denied the Lord? In fact, Peter was so special to our Lord that he got special mention after He had risen. He told the Mary's (Mark 16:7...But go, tell His disciple and PETER..... Paul among other things, buffets his body, he strives! Does this seem to you like naturally good fruit? By the way, you never did comment on: Why is Paul striving for the goal when he is already saved? Or did you not see that post? If you didn't, I'll find it and re-post it. Maryann | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Dan, You said: "You are beating a dead - but deadly - horse here Max." REALLY? PLEASE EXPLAIN IN 100 WORDS OR LESS. Maryann | ||
| Max |
Any assertion that a follower of Christ couldn't fail to bear fruit EVEN IF HE WANTED TO is both unscriptural and antiscriptural. For scripture is full of such failures. Here's just one example culled from among a vast number: 54 Then seizing him, they led him [Jesus] away and took him into the house of the high priest. Peter followed at a distance. 55 But when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and had sat down together, Peter sat down with them. 56 A servant girl saw him seated there in the firelight. She looked closely at him and said, "This man was with him." 57 But he denied it. "Woman, I don't know him," he said. 58 A little later someone else saw him and said, "You also are one of them." "Man, I am not!" Peter replied. 59 About an hour later another asserted, "Certainly this fellow was with him, for he is a Galilean." 60 Peter replied, "Man, I don't know what you're talking about!" Just as he was speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times." 62 And he went outside and wept bitterly. --Luke 22:54-62 NIV. But blessings anyway! | ||
| Rayna |
Well, after reading this thread, it is my opinion that "bearing fruit" is not the GOSPEL or any part of it. The gospel is the "revelation of Jesus Christ". The fruit that we bear after we believe the gospel, is still tainted with sin in God's sight. It is not part of the gospel. Our salvation is complete in Him and finished. We can only accept this fact by faith. Anything we do in this life is only done in thankfulness for the gift of Jesus and His completed work at Calvary which is imputed to us and His meditorial work in Heaven for us. We are to live godly lives but this is not part of salvation, as we are sinners. Our works, or fruits, are still sinful in God's sight. We need a Saviour that completed every command of God for righteousness that is imputed to the believer. I still want to see the believer that produces sinless spotless fruit, that is part of his salvation. It will not be done in this life. Jesus is our Righteousness before God, our Saviour, our Mediator, our Shepherd, the Light of the World. He is perfect and unblemished. His works are imputed to us that we may be declared perfect before God, accepted of Him and come boldly into His presence in the name of Jesus. Yes, we are sinners, and always will be. The grace of God, His mercy and forgiveness to the human race is given to us in Jesus. It is not infused into us. That is not the meaning of the word "grace". Grace means the unmerited favor of God. Our salvation is a free gift given to us by God in Jesus. We can only accept Jesus by faith and daily continue to acknowledge that we are sinners and only saved by God's mercy. Even though we commit no know sin, we are sinners and imperfect and our fruit is imperfect before God. But God does not impute this sin unto us!!!!! How wonderful. Our fruit, or works are accepted of Him because we are declared righteous because of our faith in Jesus, and they are accepted as offerings of gratitude for His wonderful gift of Jesus to us. And like I said Max, we do not live in committing open sin, but we are still sinners, and the grace of God, as you call it, does not make us righteous before God. The Holy Spirit is to covict us of sin, not make us righteous before God. We can only bow at the foot of the cross and daily through prayers enter into the Most Holy Place in the name of Jesus, and make our petitions to God. In ourselves we are sinners, and always will be!!!!! The gift of Jesus demonstrates GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS to the universe. He is just and the justifier of Him that believes in Jesus. He provided the lamb, the way for the sinner to come into His presence. He declares the sinner righteous because He believes God's word. "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in Himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar: because he believeth not the record that God gave of His Son." "And this is the record, that God HATH GIVEN TO US ETERNAL LIFE, AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS SON." HE THAT HATH THE SON HATH LIFE; AND HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE." "THESE THINGS HAVE i WRITTEN UNTO YOU THAT BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, AND THAT WE MAY BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD." I John 5: 10-13 Also, "He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE." John 3: 33 WE AS SINNERS ARE ONLY DECLARED RIGHTEOUS BECAUSE WE BELIVE GOD'S WORD THAT HE GAVE HIS SON TO BE OUR RIGHTEOUS BEFORE HIM, NOW AND FOREVER. GOD'S WORD IS TRUE. WE ARE JUSTIFIED BEFORE HIM BY FAITH ALONE. OUR FAITH IN HIS WORD IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS BEFORE HIM DAILY!!! THANK GOD FOR THIS WONDERFUL TRUTH OF THE MERCY OF GOD TO THE HUMAN RACE!! IT IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION, BUT IT IS TRUE. | ||
| Rayna |
Producing fruit after we believe the gospel, as I said before IS NOT THE GOSPEL!! Again, Max, we do not live in open sin, we do produce "good works" before God, only becauseHe does not impute our sinfulness to them. But they are no part of our salvation before Him. We are to witness of Jesus and the mercy and grace of God given to us in Him. We are not to preach ourselves or our "good works" We are not to speak of ourselves. We are to point others to the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, and confess that we are sinners just like they are!! Our only hope is in the mercy and grace (unmerited favor of God) given to us in Jesus. WE WILL ALWAYS BE SINNERS IN THIS LIFE!!! This talk of grace being the infusion of righteousness is not biblical!! It is man's interpretation of this word. God's grace is revealed unto us in Jesus, that by His mercy we are accepted in Him, and no longer condemned in God's presence, even though we are sinners. Max, you can believe what you want, but it is futile. It will only lead unto desperation for the sinner in this life. This is my belief and I can believe no other!!! I believe I am justified daily before God by faith alone in His word. That He has given to me eternal life, not because of any works I do, or have done, but because I have accepted Jesus by faith alone!!! I believe God's word and I am declared righteous before Him daily even though I fall short and am a sinner. This is God's gift to me and to all that believe His word, which we cannot work for, we can only accept by faith. |
