| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Timo, That was about the most wonderful testimony in that line of thought that I have ever heard on this site. You are right, this isn't a "get back at the SDAs for all of our pain" agenda. It is to obliterate the "old task master of the O. C." and introduce to all those interested, the "finished work of the N. T.". The motivation for this is the love of Christ! Funny thing, I think this is the first time I've addressed you. I do read your post's with interest. Maryann | ||
| Bruce H |
Timo You have been a blessing for us too. Good to hear from you again. | ||
| Steve |
Hi All, Just an update on my post above of Saturday, April 15th. There I mentioned that I had been in contact with Jill Martin Rische (Walter Martin's daughter.) She has finally replied, and will be getting back to me again in about a week. Walter Martin, the man may have passed away in 1989, but his great work continues. Expect some information on Walter Martin's position on SDAism later in his life as well as a specific statement from Jill Martin Rische regarding Adventism. If appropriate, I'll begin a new discussion titled something like Walter Martin via. Jill Martin Rische. Look for it in coming weeks or months. Ha! And we SDAs thought that the dead couldn't speak! If Abel's blood cried to God AFTER he was dead, surely Walter Martin can still speak to us! (Please don't put me out to pasture yet.) Steve | ||
| CAS |
CRI (Christian Research Institute) has notified me in response to my inquiry as to why they have not aired the SDA series that Hank Hanegraff referred to some time ago last year on the radio. The communicator said they have been unable to schedule it at this time but would some time in the future. Anyone interested should urge them to do so. www.equip.org | ||
| Steve |
Hi CAS, Thanks for checking with CRI. CRI has lost some of the strong focus of direction provided by Walter Martin since he died. Under Hank Hanegraaff, the organization has lost many great researchers and has been focusing less on the cults and more on aberrant teachings within the church. Although important, it does deviate from Martin's mission. Much could be said about Hanegraaff's handling of certain matters and his personal style. If you're interested in those personal matters go to the link I provide below. Those who knew Martin would recognize this as a serious transgression. Martin often stated that we should not attack our brothers and sisters in the faith, but defend our faith from the attacks of those who would destroy our faith in Jesus Christ. Unfortunately Hanegraaff does not follow that advice. Please realize I don't intend to discourage anyone from availing themselves of CRI's ministry. However, if anyone would like more information on the cults, I would suggest that you visit the Walter Martin Religious InfoNet. It can be found at: www.waltermartin.org Nothing on the site at this time is directly concerned with Seventh-day Adventism. But they do have a link to an index of the cults that provides a VERY brief statement about SDAism. God Bless, Steve | ||
| Lydell |
Let's see Warren: We believe in the trinity. That Jesus is the Son of God whose sacrifice alone is sufficient to fully pay for our salvation. We believe that the Bible is the word of God and the only written word that we need. We have the Holy Spirit indwelling us to teach and guide us and empower us for witness. We worship the Lord on a daily, continuing basis. We have learned to enjoy being in His presence. We have seen that He still is working in our lives in such areas as prompting us to witness the gospel to others. We experience the joy of the Lord because we know that we have been set free from the bondage of our sinful selves. We have learned that we can rest totally in His completed work on our behalf. We find that we are learning such things as walking by faith and not by sight. We are learning that God answers all our prayers. We have discovered that the Holy Spirit can be trusted to work in the most interesting ways to convict us when we get off track...and that when we do mess up that the Lord doesn't stand over us declaring that we are wicked and horrible in His sight, but that instead he picks us up and gets us immediately moving forward again. We have found that God is a God who has a Father's heart of profound love for His children and delights in spending time with us. Let's see. I can have all of that, or I can have the "thou art doomed's" of the writings of EGW. Thanks all the same. But I really prefer instead to stay out here ENJOYING the one who is Lord and master of my life. I invite you to get to know the God who has a heart of passionate love for you. You...the small one who He already knows is going to stumble many times. You...the one who He already knows is totally incapable of ever standing in His sight without an intercessor. You...the one who He was still willing to give His son's life to save. You will never find Him in the pages of EGW. He will be found by you when you put her writings on the shelf and truly go to His word only. HE is the God to follow. | ||
| Lorinc |
Hello, all, This thread has been dormant for awhile, but the topic is a perfect fit for a question I have, so let's try restarting it, if I may.... My wife and I are in the process of becoming *former* adventists, though our names are still officially on the SDA books. We've begun to visit various "Sunday churches," and we've run into a difficulty regarding our children: Nobody except the Seventh-day Adventists seems to have a program equivalent to "Cradle Roll," for ages 0 - 4. Every place we've visited or called just places them into a nursery for supervised playtime. Our older daughter is kindergarten age, and even the kindergarten classes that we've seen are nowhere near the comparatively rich, theme-oriented programs we're used to in Adventism. I am firmly convinced, from seeing the effects on my own children, that Adventism is "onto something good" here, i.e., Cradle Roll is beneficial. It's so strange that nobody else seems to do it. So how 'bout it? Have we just hit a streak of non-toddler-aware churches? :-) Or is this typical of what the "other" Protestant churches in general offer (or rather, don't) for the very young? Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated! Grace to you all, Lorin | ||
| Max |
Hi Lorin, Not saying SDA's aren't "onto something good" with their 0-4 cradle roll. But have you checked out the other cults? Jehovah's Witnesses? Latter-Day Saints? I don't personally know, but I'd be willing to bet -- if I were a betting person -- that they too start to program their children at ages 0-4. Not that the non-cultish churches shouldn't begin teaching children Christ at those ages. Have you inquired as to why not? Though my kids are ages 21 and 23, I'd still be interested in knowing from the perspective of teaching the gospel. Max of the Cross | ||
| Lorinc |
Hi Max, You wrote: >have you checked out the other cults? >Jehovah's Witnesses? Latter-Day Saints? No, thanks, I'm really more in the market for an evangelical Christian congregation... Just kidding! I *do* understand what you meant, I was just being deliberately obtuse (a skill I developed while trying to read Paul's epistles through my SDA "filter"!) Whenever we've asked "Why Not?" with regard to the absence of a Cradle Roll equivalent, we've been met with a sort of perplexed stare, like the idea never even occurred to them. Who knows... my wife taught Cradle Roll for years and years; maybe the Lord can use that skill set to start an entirely "new" sort of children's ministry wherever we end up... - Lorin | ||
| Max |
Hey Lorin, Excellent idea! Take and lemon and make lemonade! Maybe your wife could offer to be chief "babysitter" for your new congregation and then reshape the meeting into a Cradle Roll for Christ. Who could possibly object to telling stories of Jesus to little ones in a church setting? Who knows -- maybe some adults might stick around and learn a thing or two. "Seeing is believing." | ||
| Larimobley |
Dear Lorin, What types of churches have you attended? My husband and I have been on a "church hunt" of our own here locally, and I'd have to say that all of the non-denominational, evangelical churches we've attended have had excellent children's programs. Our kids are 9, 6 & 3 and finding a great church to meet their needs has been easy. It's meeting our needs that's tough! Have you looked into Calvary Chapel? The one here near our home is very children-oriented. Wishing you success in your search--and welcome to the forum! Lari Mobley | ||
| Lorinc |
Hi Lari, Non-denominational, evangelical churches are what we've been visiting, too. I love the brief, clear, seven-point statement of faith of the National Association of Evangelicals -- such a breath of fresh air after the 27 Fundamental Beliefs! Your comments give me hope that we'll find a good match with our needs soon -- I'll check around for any Calvary Chapels around here ("here" is south of Boston, by the way). - Lorin | ||
| Bmorgan |
Hi Lorin Welcome to the forum! God bless you in your search for a new church home. Don't overlook praying earnestly that God places you in the best fellowship He wants your family to worship. Children's division/program are the best in adventists churches? I agree and question it at the same time. The church our family attends is very child centered. It is non denominational. On any given Sunday, there are at least 500-600 children 10 years old and younger. I am amazed at the orderliness. No rambunctious behavior or anything near it. I have heard good things about Grace Chapel. Is that church anywhere near you? It is the church Gordon Mc Donald pastored until recently. It is in Lexington I thing. I understand your need for a good children's program. I am praying for you. God Bless. BMorgan | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Morgan, Hey girl! I think of you often;-)) Been wondering where you have been. Don't stay away sooooo long;-(( You always come in at the right time. Keep it up. :):):).........Maryann | ||
| Max |
BMorgan! Great to hear from you again! Don't be a stranger! | ||
| Bmorgan |
Hi Maryann and Max, Thanks for thinking about me. Do you believe in Spiritual Warfare? Well, I think I have been experiencing it. Oh, the way my dear adventist friends hold the blinders over their eyes, I fear they will loose their sight totally. Oh the joy they miss. They weary themselves working so hard for their salvation. I have been in earnest prayer for the souls of my -walking blind, near dead- SDA-friends. Maryann, I think of you often. I am glad you are settling down nicely in CA. Send me your # when you can. Max, thanks for reviewing Canright's book. Hi Colleen! Happy school daze. Praying for you. God is Good. BMorgan | ||
| Denisegilmore |
BMorgan: I can understand your sadness at your sda friends with the blinders on their eyes. I too have a few people that I've grown to love in the Sda Church and found myself beating my head against a brick wall trying to show them biblical truth. Not that I know much as I'm new at reading the Bible (about 1 and a half years now), but I got out of the Word of God a different meaning than taught in Sabbath School. Still, I try to convey what I believe to be Truth. Hello everyone, I'm new in this forum but have been reading until my eyes were crossed for about a week anyhow. I'm currently not attending any Church since I stopped going the Sda Church. I had to, just to go back to basics and read the Bible without a denominational interpretation being instilled into my brain. I probably should have started a new topic but wasn't sure how to do that. Anyhow, I hope to find my way back to this subject. You can know that I'll be looking for it (chuckle), probably in a panic thinking I'll never find my way back here. But in the meanwhile I want to thank everyone here for ALL the posts and topics that I've been reading. I can say that I've learned a great deal and alot of it validated what I had been thinking and believing, which is why I stopped attendance to Church. I just couldn't see myself going back in hearing the very things I found to be incorrect as far as my understanding of the Word of God. I was brainwashed, and it's not easy to get some things out of my head even though I KNOW they are incorrect. God Blessings to all, Denise | ||
| Susan |
Lorin, welcome to you and the other newcomers!It's great to have so many new folks around! God is so gracious to bring us all together in this manner. About the children's programs. I've seen excellent classes in the Presbyterian churhes (PCA) and the Christian Reformed Churches(CRC) we've been at. They usually don't start a structured program until 2 or 3yrs. If you've ever tried to teach little ones younger than this, you'll understand why! You're lucky to keep clean diapers, snacks and smiles going for any length of time! Anyway, the materials used in these churches are solid, bible-based lessons and in my opinion they're just wonderful. I think Max is on to something though, you might be able to use your gifts with a children's class, in the church God will lead you to. BMorgan, I truly believe that spiritual warfare is real, but the assuring thing is that in Christ we have the power to overcome. Nothing will separate us from God's love, not even our trials and battles with Satan. Christ has the victory and we're on the winning side if we belong to Him. (am I sounding a bit cheerleaderish yet?) As for those who can't see the truth you've found, just continue to pray and let Christ's love live through you as evidence to them. It's also amazing for them to hear you speak about, your assurance of salvation that you now have in Christ, and how it differs from when you were SDA. (this really gets under their skin, even if they're not letting on!) Glad to see you're back! Denise, so glad you found your way here! It's funny how God just leads us along. I think you're doing a wonderful thing by getting back to the basics. That's probablly one of the most important things you can do along with praying for the Holy Spirit's guidance. The bible is so powerful and so filled with God's wisdom. I'll be sure to pray for you, BMorgan, Lari and Lorin as you look for God's will. God's blessings to all on this beautiful day! In Christ alone, Susan | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Susan, Thank you for your prayers, I certainly need them. God Bless you, Denise | ||
| Chyna |
dear lorin, i used to help out in the 3 year old sunday school and I assure you that we did teach Bible stories. the kids were adorable. anyway, it was strange to hear of 'playtime' without anything else at church. i agree with susan that when the children are babes there's not much of a point to trying to teach them. even little ones sunday school lessons are very short and always try to incorporate at least one verse. :) like: sharing your toys with your siblings :) heehee because of the love Jesus wants us to have for one another. cute. i'm encouraged to hear that you have left. we'll be praying for you and your search for a new church. in Him, Chyna |
