| Author | Message | ||
| George |
Val, The fear of being jumped on works both ways. Yes I am old enough to be a grandfather, and yes I would not be nurturing if I didn't show some surprise at what seemed to be a suggestion we be obnoxious. If you (or anyone else) don't like something I say and it could be taken two ways, take it the good way as that is the way I intended it. Besides I was expressing surprise to Chyna, just as you are expressing anger to me. It all seems to me to fall into the realm of human conversation. We give, we get, we get, we give. George | ||
| Cindy |
George, Good post above.... It sometimes seems hard to put out questions here without it appearing like we are attacking someone. The various moods the other person is in when they read, and then mull over a post, affects how they perceive it also, too, I think. I guess that's the downside of cybertalk. If we were just together in person we could quickly correct misunderstandings. (maybe! :-)) ) I still think we should feel free to express our feelings, be able to question, and yet also try to encourage others in our journeys in this life. I read this once (somewhere!): "Be Kind. Remember...everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." As far as your question of being obnoxious goes, I thought it was a very good one! There IS a fine line of being a fanatical religious type person in our conversations... or a relaxed, assured child of the King, grateful for the Grace that God has bestowed freely on us because of Jesus' work alone! I liked what you said about if a post could be taken two ways, try to take it the good way! This is from Romans 12: "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; CLING TO WHAT IS GOOD. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Don't be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. On the contrary 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.' Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good." Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Colleentinker |
Thank you for the wonderful text, Cindy! I agree that we should be able to disagree and question without attacking or discounting each other. The Holy Spirit works on each of us uniquely, and some of us have problems and wounds that need certain kinds of attention and discipline from God, and others of us have completely different struggles. The one thing that we all have in common, though, is our salvation through his blood and the unity of the Holy Spirit in us. We can trust Him to help us see each other as brothers and sisters in him, each of us growing and changing in the healing light of his love. We are all members of his body when we accept Him! Praising God for his Spirit which brings unity into the disparity of us believers, Colleen | ||
| Valm |
George, Thank you for taking a starting this thread as it is much better to discuss this here than on a thread devoted to prayer. I agree with Cindy, cyber communication is not nearly as clear as face to face. And yes I was bothered about your post to Chyna and maybe I was premature in my comment to you. Only you can honestly know that. And if I was I apologize. If I were to be honest with you I still have some reservations of your communications left over from the lengthy and frustrating conversation on sin. I will try to get over it. Valerie | ||
| Chyna |
hullo, as the unwitting instigator of this particular incident, my heart is growing sad at the increasing amounts of argumentative or critical discussions on this thread. not that arguing or critiquing are bad in themselves, but it is the spirit that pervades them that disturbs me ... so i have been staying away. in fact i've been staying away for awhile, hoping it will abate. i can only think that these frica-frac things are distracting us from what God wants us to be testifiers to: to His Love. To His grace. To the wonder of the Salvation He's provided for us. I can only think that we had been doing awesome things, impacting Adventists and it was too good and now Satan is stirring up anger and slander and dissent as a way to break us up, to discourage us from coming together, to discourage us from feeling free to express our feelings. if I wasn't knit so deeply to God as I am now because of all the trials i've been experiencing through recently, I don't know what I would have felt under the seeming critique of George in the Prayer topic, no less, and the very callous words of Allenette. probably more anger, but instead, happily, I just feel sad that they did not understand, and joy that i've been able to witness (some of you out there must! be praying). so everyone of FAF that prays, please let us pray again together that God will remove whatever is causing this forum to be an unpleasant place to come and post and discuss. in Him, Chyna | ||
| George |
If we view questions as attacks there will always be trouble. But if we view them simply as a quest for knowledge there need be no trouble at all. If we don't ask questions we will never grow and apt to believe the wrong thing about people and their thoughts. George | ||
| Valm |
George, Questions are good. However sometimes questions are phrased in such a many to also give an editorial opinion on how one thinks of the others thoughts. Sometimes questions are not really questions but are insults. Examples: How hard can this be? Why don't you get what I am saying? Where does the problem lay? Secondly, you did not ask a question of Chyna in the prayer thread. You took opportunity to pick up on the word obnoxious and make it known to her and anyone else what your thoughts were about obnoxious Christians. I won't disagree with you opinion on folks who become overbearing in sharing their faith. I have been on the receiving end of that much too often. My point is that when someone comes to request a prayer they are coming with a sense of vulnerability to the group. That is neither the time or the place to "discuss" or "question" or point out fault. It is the time to let go of whatever and just love and pray. Listen to what Chyna is saying. she is a very committed and intelligent young lady. There are many lessons to be learned in her posts. And take the chaff if you see it as such and blow it away. Go back and reread her post and find the beauty in them. I have to go. I am on all weekend and the holiday at work. Have many babies to save this weekend!!!!! Valerie | ||
| Valm |
Allenette, I simply do not know what to say except.... Please refrain from using such expletives even if not fully typed. That was over the top. Please take such things to this thread. The prayer thread is a special place for prayer in many of our minds. I feel that its sacredness for lack of a better term is being abused. To pray for a young single mother is not to ask for a happily ever after fairy tale, it is to ask for her to have the strength to make better choices in her life and to take opportunities that come her way. It is many more things than this. I would hope that if I found myself in that situation I would have people to pray and support me. Allenette, I can only try to readjust my attitude towards you. I was and still am very offened at the things you have said. I will pray that I can have a more prayerful and forgiving attitude towards you. Valerie | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Chyna, I am so glad to see you back!! ((((Chyna)))) THAT by they way is a cyber hug for you. Do not fret over how others percieve you or what has arisen over your words. You did nothing to instigate it and you did nothing wrong. If anything, we all certainly came out with our true colors and are now exposed. This is a good thing for me to see. Never let anyone silence you just because dissention arose over something you have or haven't said. Remember, silence is death in alot of cases. Your words are full of God's Love and that's all I see, a heart of flesh that goes out to others. Never stop being who you are, a child of God. So many times you have been the instrument that God used to teach me and for that teaching I thank God and I thank you. You are very much an inspiration and I would implore you to keep on posting if for nobody else but me. :) I need to hear from you and to see your faith (even if it is in print). Have no fear Chyna! God is with you. God Bless you with a very special New Year, your sister in Christ Jesus, Denise | ||
| Valm |
Dear George, I am replying to your post from the prayer line. I don't wish to reply there because I see that as a line to come to to pray. If you are refering to my statement of that line being sacred as "Holy", yes I do consider the prayer thread holy. I view these threads as different rooms of discussion and when I go to the prayer thread I see it as walking in a room dedicated to praying for people and I try to behave as such. If I see a group of people praying at church, I approach them in an entirely different manner than in the social hallduring coffee. Even during the church service (where I go) there are different types of behaviors. For example during the "Peace" people are hugging and shaking hands and saying the peace of the Lord be with you and good morning. It is a social time in our service and chattering is throughout the church. When we come to the Communion, the service is quiet and reflective and people refrain from talk so others might meditate. During Prayers of the people everyone holds hands and unifies themselves in our collective petition to God. No discussion here, just love and prayer. So I believe there is a time and place for everything and coming to a place of prayer is sacred, even if it is cyberspace. George, I can not find anywhere that anyone suggested that unprofessed Christians should not post on this forum. I do believe that someone suggested to Allenette that what was her point in posting on the prayer forum when it is obvious she doesn't believe prayer will help anyway. Or that is what I interpreted them in saying. I guess for me I would view that as someone barging into my little church during prayers for the people or a healing service and shouting to us to not bother it won't help anyway. Wouldn't you see that as inappropriate? George, why do you keep asking us why it takes us so long to figure out your simple questions? Maybe it is time for you to shift perspective and ask yourself if you really want to be understood or are taking the necessary measures to change your patterns of communication to be understood. Effective communication takes alot of effort. I can only speak for myself that I was sincerely trying to be sensitive and helpful in your questions of sin. And in the end of the conversation I felt drained and hurt. And then when you got the answer from me that you were looking for you turned to me and said that you felt I was just saying that to give you the answer you wanted. How can you say such a thing? You do not know me enough to know what my thoughts were? The truth of the matter is that the previous conversation in which you stated that you believed that sin depended on the inner persons beliefs I was and still am inclined to agree. But then it was taken to the point of suggesting that people could believe doing ilicit drugs were OK and that would be fine. Let's not go there again please. I was avoiding saying what I believed because I did not wish the conversation to take the ugly path it had done previously. George I have heard you mention that you are misunderstood 98% of the time. When you say that my impulsive response is stop using I am so misunderstood as an excuse. You can do and will be much happier if you stop hiding behind this "I am so misunderstood" pattern. Perhaps the people do understand you better at work. Maybe you choose it to be that way? Maybe you are a better nonverbal communicator and we do not have that advantage? Maybe you are in a profession of a certain mindset that understands one another well. I know that people in my profession understand me from the go get. But people in my husband's profession think I am an oddity. So it might have nothing at all to do with them as being sinners. And maybe that is not a judgement I would make on them anyhow. George, you said How many times do I have to say "I believe" before people realize it? I can recall you saying that you understand the concept of grace but never have I heard you say I believe in grace or that you have accept Jesus as you Savior or Christianity. I even recall you saying until other questions of yours are answered you are unable to accept Jesus as your Saviour. If I am wrong just come on the line and say, I accept Jesus as my Saviour and accept his grace as sufficient for me and then I will know that you truely believe. And people will not misunderstand you as not believing. GEORGE IF YOU DO NOT HEAR A WORD I SAY PLEASE TRY TO HEAR THIS!!!! You do not have to be a believer to post here. You need to post here and have your questions answered. I will do my best to be supportive of your quest for truth. I do request that you remember that we are people and should not be expected to take verbal abuse from you. Understand that certain things will hold a sense of sacredness to some people and give them that respect. PLEASE know that I do not feel sanctimonious at all. I make mistakes on a hourly basis probably. I do not feel that I am any better than you in my quest for truth or my status with God. I will respect you the best I can and apologize if I believe I have been unkind or insensitive. But know also I will not tolerate condescending or poor behavior from you or anyone else. I also will not tolerate seeing someone else be picked on when they need our support or help. It is the mother hen in me and I make no apology for that. George seriously, I think we would be buddies if we were face to face. I wish I had a video of you talking as I think it would be revealing. Have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! Valerie | ||
| George |
Val, I said, "I sure hope you don't really we should become obnoxious in telling others about Christ, as no one likes an obnoxious person, not even one that is obnoxious." As an example of my being misunderstood, look at what I said above. No where am I attacking Chyna for wanting to share her faith as she has said on more than one action. All I was calling into question was the way it seemed she was saying suggesting it be done. Go back to where I first started talking and asking about going against your conscience being a sin. In the next week or so can you see where anyone said yes, no or I don't know. Can you see how many times and how many ways I asked the question only to be told things like, sin is paid for, Grace is free, take the plunge etc. etc. etc. none of which comes close to answering the question, Is going against your conscience what sin is. You are right, no where was it said I couldn't post if I didn't profess to be a Christian. Chyna did say how ever that because I was an un professed Christian I had a knee jerk reaction to what she said, and what's more because i was un-professed I couldn't understand something, I am not exactly sure what it was though. If you stand back and look at the whole thing you will have to admit that it was not I that had the knee jerk reaction. As for my communication skills, they are quite good, not perfect, but good. Listening skills can be called into question also. People often listen to only part of a statement, formulate an answer and actually miss the question, EVER MORE to misunderstand what was said. This past year is the first time in my life I can remember being happy. This has not been so much because of my understanding of the gospel, as finding out three things. #1 I was taught as a child that I had no value, and #2 it was because of religion I was taught this, and #3 what I was taught was not true. Why did I say that? I am not going to let any religion, group, person or thing come between me and that happiness. George | ||
| Valm |
George, Stop being I victim. I am hearing that I am so misunderstood theme again. Formyself I never stated that you were attacking her. I stated the inappropriateness of critquing her methods at a time when she was coming to us for prayer. This was not the time to do so. And who are you to be calling this into question anyway? Are we to judge others? George, I am not talking about anyones knee jerk reactions. I am just pointing out that you are asking us how many times to you have to say "I believe" before we realize it. You have never said you believe and are not giving me a direct response to this. I hope that you do. But if you don't please do not go off and point out once again how misunderstood you are. Just tell us that you profess Jesus as your Saviour and you will be perfectly understood. If is not for any of us to judge you on that matter. We are not an elitist group, just regular people with alot of big mistakes and baggage in our own lives who rest in God's plan of grace and salvation. And George, by the way, all of my ruff edges didn't magically disappear nor all of my childhood baggage once I proclaimed my faith in Jesus. I am still working on that stuff, not to secure my salvation but to make my life now more rich and happy. This is another conversation though. My response to your paragraph on the conversations about sin. You are not directly responding to what I said. You are continuing to point out how many times and ways you had to give us the question. I know that George. But you did not adress the inappropriateness of you stating that the only reason I gave the final answer I did was because I might have thought that was what you wanted. I told you why I was hesitant to give you that answer. GEORGE YOU ARE NOT RESPONDING TO WHAT I WAS SAYING HERE. You gave a response to something else and once again point out how it is us that are missing your points. With regards to your communication skills. You say they are good and once again turn to say that it is the members of this forum's listening skills that are lacking. George, take some responsibility here. I have seen many people answer you in a patient and sensitive way and making much effort to communicate with you. Can't you assume some responsibility. How is it that you are the only one misunderstood? There is a victim theme here George. George I am happy for you that you are happy. I am sorry for the things that happened in your childhood. No child should grow up without feeling that they are God's precious gift to their parents as well as being empowered with what a difference they can make to this world and others. I am happy that at some point in your life you realized you were handed a false reality. I hope that you will continue to heal George. Do not let anything stand in the way of your happiness. George, I do not wish to continue this discussion. We are at a stalemate and I am wearing out. Unless there is a point to help one another, let us both go in peace. I bid you well George. | ||
| George |
Richard Tinker' Please remove my password. No return post is needed, or wanted. George | ||
| Cindy |
George, Does this mean you're leaving us? Or what? If it does, I will miss your comments, even if you felt they were misunderstood most of the time... Keep me in your prayers. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
Hope you'll reconsider, George. If not now, then later. --Max of the Cross | ||
| Denisegilmore |
George, I'll miss you too :( God Bless you, Denise | ||
| Colleentinker |
George, you remain in my prayers, and I know you have a good heart. I pray you find peace in your heart along with your new-found happiness. You are still welcome to be part of this forum! Love in Jesus, Colleen |
