| Author |
Message |
Chyna
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 2:34 am: |     |
Dear Kelly,
God is already using you! Remember that God is in control and He can turn the worst of mistakes (Like Judas' betrayal of Christ) to the best of the results according to His plan. Not that I think you will do badly, but just know that if God is working in the heart of this person there really isn't anything you CAN do to shut them completely off because we're just pieces of the puzzle, not the whole picture (or even the cover of what the puzzle is supposed to look like).
you know what drives me nuts? trying to do a puzzle without the picture. all we have are two or three pieces that we might finally connect and we can see a little of it. Anyway, please use this forum as a means for information. :). use us!
Chyna |
Kelly
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 7:31 am: | |
Where is the scripture the says "you will not know the seasons one from another" near the end of time? I have not been able to find this in the Bible or in E.W.?
The closest thing I found was in 1 Thes. 5, but it doesn't say exactly that. Do you guys remember being taught that?
Thanks
P.S. My witnessing came to an abrupt halt; the email address the person gave me had fatal errors so my response to them was never received. (?) |
Kelly
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 8:09 am: | |
I've really made a girl on Atoday mad. I feel badly about it. She has added to my posts and elaborated on them making them into something they were not. Then it seems that she got mad because I said "I'm sorry you are angry".
Would you guys visit Atoday site
http://www.atoday.com/magazine/archive/1996/julaug1996/articles/Reconsideration.shtml
and read what I wrote. Maybe it just doesn't come across like I wrote it. I wrote it simply meaning to state "what I was as an Adventist". Evidently, it didn't come across that way.
I trust you guys; tell me if I have written something that I shouldn't have.
Thanks |
Larimobley
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 9:59 am: | |
Dear Kelly,
I read the exchange on the AToday forum, and I believe the tone of your posts is loving and genuine. It's hard on a forum for us to communicate the same way we would in person. If the other person read something into your statements, well, that can happen. But not only did you come back to state that you did not intend them that way, you also apologized!
I have stopped posting on the Adventist forums, although I lurk from time to time. For me, I feel that my prayers for people on these forums is more beneficial than my posts. I am not suggesting that you stop posting! Just trust God to lead you, and pray for the people you are corresponding with.
Blessings to you!
Lari |
Kelly
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 1:52 pm: | |
Thank you Lari,
I have prayed for the person already!! This is a giant step for me. I've always gotten angry at people who opposed me. Also, the text "give thanks in all things" came to mind. This means that in adversity that I should give thanks as well. Through the Holy Spirit I was even able to praise God for this person!
I have learned a valuable lesson. You can give thanks when situations aren't to your personal suiting.
I did not choose this person to be my enemy. But she seems to have chosen me as an enemy. Christ says that we should pray for those who despise us. I feel as this is a tremendous growth for me spiritual; I was able (through the Holy Spirit) to set aside my personal feelings and have apage love (impersonal love) for this individual.
I stand in amazement at how God can use us when we stop and pray--first. Oh, if only I could remember to do that more often.
I don't know what the outcome will be for my fellow believer in Christ but I know for me that this was a victory over my human nature.
[Frankly, I deserve this response from someone else. :) I treated my friend who shared this same "good news" with me so badly!!! Now, I know how she felt]. :\ |
Lydell
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 6:26 pm: | |
Kelly, that is why the Lord can use you effectively to minister to an SDA. You have been there and know pretty likely what they are thinking. I'm glad you have already realized the key....pray first. Then listen for the Spirit's answer. In my experience, He tends to give you a feeling of churning misgiving in the spirit if you are supposed to be shutting up! ha
Always try to keep in mind that we are called to minister....we are not called to be responsible for what the results of that ministry will be. That's the Holy Spirit's department. If you act out of love, from a clear concious that you are sincerely trying to reach the person with words of hope, I think the Lord will use whatever you have written.
And Kelly, never forget that sometimes it just might be the Lord's purpose to cause someone to react in a negative way, very strongly, to what you say. It just might be the spark that drives them to attempt to find a scripture to support their view....and fail... and so they begin to honestly search.
One point that has been made here frequently is that we should ALWAYS keep in our minds that we must focus first on salvation. The issue of keeping the sabbath, the IJ, state of the dead, etc. are all important issues certainly. Yet they all come second to the one great issue of salvation. So always try to base your reply on communicating the truth on that topic, the other stuff is a side issue.
The 7th day sabbath isn't important, why? Because we rest in Christ's completed work for our salvation. (The truth that the early church was worshipping on Sunday,for instance is a side issue.) The investigative judment isn't needed, why? Because those who believe not are judged already, those who have received Christ are already sealed. (We know that the date of 1844 had no significance, but THE issue is that salvation is assured NOW.) And the topic of the state of the dead comes down to Christ telling us that when we are saved we HAVE eternal life already.
We have had folks reply with real anger to something we sent them and several months, or even a couple of years later, they come back and say, "you know, I couldn't forget what you said. It really bugged me. I stated really reading the Bible. And now I've left the church." So don't get discouraged! |
Chyna
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 7:38 pm: | |
Dear Kelly,
just a sidenote, but I think Paul was calling us to rejoice when we're persecuted for Christ's cause. And that's what's happening to you now, even though it is with Adventists, and not the govt, or nonChristians. it's because you know you're doing something for God's Kingdom that people are getting angry.
One thing I thought was interesting was that anger usually is a mask for things like: fear, mistrust, doubt, insecurity.
Chyna |
Sherry2
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 9:06 pm: | |
Tis true to some degree Chyna, but don't you feel doggone angry at SDAism? And it's not based on fear or insecurity. It's based on realizing it maligns the word of God. So anger is not necessarily, though it can be, a mask for those things. I try to put myself in the others shoes for a minute. Sometimes when discussing things with an SDA I feel downright angry that they will not reason these things out, and I don't want the other person thinking that somehow I'm experiecing insecurity, so they must be on the right track. So I try to give the same respect to anothers' thinking too, because quite honestly, they think I'm maligning the Word of God and it ticks them off too. Do you see what I mean? I know when as an SDA I was mortified by what others believed, and yea, even angry. But it wasn't insecurity. It was because I was sure I understood the Word of God, and how could they say such things? Anyways, my thoughts.
On the other hand, like Lydell said, sometimes stirring that anger up can lead to them rethinking it over and over again till it hardens them or softens them for Christ. To be sure I've had times of intense ticked off idness where I was steaming for days on end, and I had to work through why I was so angry, and did anything that person say have a ring of truth in it? You know, that kind of thing. |
Chyna
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 9:54 pm: | |
Dear Sherry,
A thousand times yes, I'm angry at Adventism. I would like to differentiate though. I meant the anger that the poster on the Atoday forum was probably masking doubts and insecurities of their own beliefs, like you said it had a ring of truth that they wanted to deny.
The difference is that the anger I feel at Adventism stems from the oppression of the people in it. Like when Jesus yelled at the Pharisees for adding so many burdens to the people of Israel and not doing a single thing to lighten them.
I have discussed things with nonChristians, and even when we disagree, we can discuss it in the forthright manner, not avoiding any of the fact or statements made.
Discussing things with Adventists is another ballgame. You tell them a verse, they don't really respond directly, they just move to another verse, or another EGW quote, or something else.
I mean really, it's so clear in the bible: "Jesus declared all foods clean." "Do not judge a man according to what day he esteems." "Not of works." not to add "a jot or a tittle" ro the word of God.
We aren't dealing with facts when we do discuss things with Adventists. It's is more like emotions. Just in the way you can't convert anyone by arguing with them, it has to be a change of heart.
Something I read from the Kingdom of the Cults, is the tendency for cultists to associate the theology with their personal feelings about the other person. This is self victimizing because since they can't deal with talking to someone who holds opposing beliefs they really don't hear them, or they just end up avoiding them because of the emotional pull.
What did it say exactly? The inability to separate doctrine from the person. We've seen this so many times when Adventists shun those that leave. I've been shunned for almost a year now by my ex Adventist boyfriend.
Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin
excerpt
2. Genuine antagonism on a personal level identity. Dislike of Christian message with the messenger who holds such opposing beliefs. Identification of opposing beliefs with the individual in the framework of antagonism leads the cultist almost always to reject individual as well as the belief (which is why it is extremely difficult to engage in general dialogue with cultists).
All cultists face in interpersonal contact the problem of hostility towards those who reject their interpretations. They are basically faced with: ěHow can this person (the Christian) be such an acceptable personality yet not share my (the cultists) theology. Then wonders how it is possible a Christian could be accepting of a person and yet not their beliefs.
The Christianís role is to be: unprejudiced, reasonably learned, and have a genuine love and concern for the welfare of the cultist
Christians that are able to dialogue with cultists if they can get the cultists to like them as a person and yet at the same time be able to discuss doctrine it will serve to break down some of the psychological barrier in talking to cultist, although it may not undercut their (the cultists) theology
There is a real mental & emotional chain that inhibits cultist ability to discern truth from error
Chyna |
Sherry2
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 6:46 am: | |
Very interesting Chyna! Wow! Yes, I had a very hard time seperating doctrine from the person. Of course I must say I still do when it comes to SDA's. I can deal with other groups but I guess I'm still going through a detox phase cuz I just cringe when an SDA calls the house, and I pray for help from God to seperate the person from their beliefs now. Ugh! But thank you for sharing that Chyna. I have the Kingdom of the Cults books. In fact I owned it 6 years ago as an SDA. :) Which page was that taken from? That certainly is an eye-opener. |
Sherry2
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 6:50 am: | |
Oh, and as another note, I will have to agree that it is "Christians that are able to dialogue with cultists if they can get the cultists to like them as a person and yet at the same time be able to discuss doctrine it will serve to break down some of the psychological barrier in talking to cultist" was true for me. It was a hunger for true Christianity and being a part of a Mothers of Small Children group at a Baptist church that just broke down my walls bit by bit, as I saw their love for Christ, true workings to lift up family, spouses, and care for the lost...their Christian maturity broke down my walls, and continues to amaze me. I am so thankful! Thank you Jesus. |
Chyna
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 11:15 pm: | |
Dear Sherry, that's from the introduction of the most recent release, I just plain sat down in the middle of the aisle at Barnes and Noble and copied down as much as possible.
Chyna |
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