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Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 2 » LAW OF MOSES REPLACED BY LAW OF JESUS » Archive through January 19, 2001 « Previous Next »

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Denisegilmore
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am clinging to Jesus Christ and what He has done, for my life.
Patti
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For your life, for all who trust in Him. The Gospel is our sure foundation, Denise; our anchor in the storm of life. Jesus Christ is our righteousness. He is all that we need.

God bless!
Max
Posted on Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness
without requiring repentance, baptism without
church discipline, Comunion without
confession, absolution without personal
confession. Cheap grace is grace without
discipleship, grace without the cross, grace
without Jesus christ, living and incarnate."

--Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Cost of Discipleship,
p.44-45
Max
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^The Gospel is our sure foundation, ______;
our anchor in the storm of life. Jesus Christ is
our righteousness. He is all that we need.^^

For "WE ALL, with unveiled [unlegalistic] face,
beholding the glory of the Lord, ARE BEING
CHANGED into his likeness from one degree
of glory to another; for this comes from the
Lord who is the Spirit." --Paul, RSV 2 Corinth-
ians 4:18.

Therefore, we need not fear the storm of life,
because God uses storms to change us from
one degree of glory to another. And anyone
who is NOT being is changed is one who
Christ has NEVER known. For the text clearly
says, "WE ALL ... ARE BEING CHANGED!

Praise God,

Max of the Cross
Patti
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grace is a divine attribute, not human.
Grace is God's infinite mercy for sinful humans.
Grace is totally unmerited on our part.
Grace is a gift (by definition).

Grace cannot be false or "cheap," because it is an attribute of God. We must be very careful with what terms we refer to our God.

Hebrews 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified (past tense) him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^Grace cannot be false or "cheap," because it
is an attribute of God. We must be very careful
with what terms we refer to our God.^^

We must be even more careful not to attribute
false or "cheap" or "changed" [Jude 4] grace
to God. For God is never mocked.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^Hebrews 10:29 How much more severely do
you think a man deserves to be punished who
has trampled the Son of God under foot, who
has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the
covenant that sanctified (past tense) him, and
who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to
avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will
judge his people."
31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of
the living God.^^

Changing God's grace into Satan's grace IS
trampling "the Son of God under foot," IS
treating "as an unholy thing the blood of the
covenant," and IS insulting "the Spirit of grace"
in verity.

^^For certain men whose condemnation was
written about long ago have secretly slipped in
among you. They are GODLESS MEN, who
CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A
LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY AND DENY
JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and
Lord.^^ NIV Jude 4.
Patti
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only kind of "cheap" or "false" grace would be a grace that does not emanate from God, and I know of no Christians who claim that grace does not come from God. We Christians know that we are saved by His eternal mercy alone, so I cannot understand why a Christian, such as Bonhoeffer, would choose to build up a soapbox on something non-existent, such as "cheap" grace, on something negative, such as "false" grace. Even if it were possible to have a "bogus" grace, why would a Christian devote all of his/her time dwelling on the false instead of telling others of the infinite mercy (grace) of God in saving sinful humans for the sake of Jesus Christ? The Gospel is not a message of warning against all possible heresies; it is a POSITIVE message of salvation in Jesus Christ. I cannot imagine a Christian theologian expending so much energy jousting at windmills.

There is no salvation, no peace, no reconciliation, no joy, in being able to identify a "falsehood." There is only salvation, peace, reconciliation and joy in knowing the very Good News of our acceptance with God for the sake of the obedience of the One, even unto death. Why should we spend any time thinking up heresies to fight when the only cure for heresy is constant reiteration of the Truth, the Gospel of our accomplished salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^The only kind of "cheap" or "false" grace
would be a grace that does not emanate from
God.^^

It doesen't emanate from God, but from Satan.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^I cannot understand why a Christian, such
as Bonhoeffer, would choose to build up a
soapbox on something non-existent, such as
"cheap" grace, on something negative, such
as "false" grace.^^

Or why a New Testament writer, such as Jude,
would choose to build up such a soapbox on
"changed" grace?

"For certain men whose condemnation was
written about long ago have secretly slipped in
among you. They are godless men, who
CHANGE the GRACE of our God INTO a
LICENSE for immorality and deny Jesus
Christ our only Õovereign and Lord." NIV Jude
4.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^Even if it were possible to have a "bogus"
grace, why would a Christian devote all of
his/her time dwelling on the false instead of
telling others of the infinite mercy (grace) of
God in saving sinful humans for the sake of
Jesus Christ?^^

Why would Paul dwell on it?

^^What shall we say, then? Shall we go on
sinning so that grace my increase? By no
means! We died to sin; how can we live in it
any longer? Or don't you know that all of us
who were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into his death? We were therefore
buried with him through baptism into death in
order that, just as Chriswt was raised from the
dead through the glory of the Father, we too
may LIVE A NEW LIFE.^^ Romans 6:1-4 NIV.

A new life that is "being TRANSFORMED INTO
HIS [CHRIST'S] LIKENESS WITH EVER-
INCREASING GLORY, which comes from the
Lord, who is the [Holy] Spirit. 2 Corinthians
3:18 NIV.

It is the one who espouses it who devotes "all
of his/her time dwelling on the false instead
of" the true -- not the one, such as Paul or
Jude, who oppose it.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^The Gospel is not a message of warning
against all possible heresies; it is a POSITIVE
message of salvation in Jesus Christ.^^

The gospel exposes all heresies by
presenting true grace. True grace is active,
working good deeds. False grace is passive,
allowing evil deeds to flourish.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^I cannot imagine a Christian theologian
expending so much energy jousting at
windmills.^^

I know of none who does.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^There is no salvation, no peace, no
reconciliation, no joy, in being able to identify a
"falsehood."^^

The true exposes the false. Effortlessly. Real
salvation, peace, reconciliation and joy expose
the false by knowing the true. For example,
once you've seen the sun you know it's not a
flashlight.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^There is only salvation, peace, reconciliation
and joy in knowing the very Good News of our
acceptance with God for the sake of the
obedience of the One, even unto death.^^

And you would recommend disobeying the
obedient One? His only law is love.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^Why should we spend any time thinking up
heresies to fight?^^

We don't.
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^The only cure for heresy is constant
reiteration of the Truth, the Gospel of our
accomplished salvation in our Lord Jesus
Christ.^^

"The only cure for heresy is" to OBEY "the
Truth, the Gospel of our accomplished
salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ."

For disobedience is the clue to the "changed"
grace of Jude 4.
Max
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 6:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All heresy or false teaching denies Scripture
somewhere. And the "changed grace" theory
is no exception. Here's the Scripture it denies:

NIV James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers,
if a man claims to have faith but has no
deeds? Can such faith save him?
15 Suppose a brother or sister is without
clothes and daily food.
16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you
well; keep warm and well fed," but does
nothing about his physical needs, what good
is it?
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not
accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I
have deeds." Show me your faith without
deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I
do.
19 You believe that there is one God. Good!
Even the demons believe that--and shudder.
20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that
faith without deeds is useless ?
21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered
righteous for what he did when he offered his
son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that his faith and his actions were
working together, and his faith was made
complete by what he did.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says,
"Abraham believed God, and it was credited to
him as righteousness," and he was called
God's friend.
24 You see that a person is justified by what
he does and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the
prostitute considered righteous for what she
did when she gave lodging to the spies and
sent them off in a different direction?
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so
faith without deeds is dead.

MC
Jtree
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty
wherewith Christ Jesus has made us free,
and be not entangled again with the yoke
of bondage." Galatians 5:1

THE LAW says, "This do, and thou shalt live."
THE GOSPEL says, "Live and thou shalt do.

THE LAW says, "Pay me what thou owest."
THE GOSPEL says, "I frankly forgive thee all."

THE LAW says, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart."
THE GOSPEL says, "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

THE LAW says, "Cursed is every one who continues not in all things written in the book of the law to do them."
THE GOSPEL says, "Blessed is the man whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered."

THE LAW says, "The wages of sin is death."
THE GOSPEL says, "The gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord."

THE LAW says, "If..."
THE GOSPEL says, "Therefore..."

THE LAW makes blessing the result of obedience.
THE GOSPEL makes obedience the result of
blessings.

THE LAW restrains the old man.
THE GOSPEL gives liberty in the new man.

THE LAW says "DO."
THE GOSPEL says, "DONE!"

THE LAW demands holiness.
THE GOSPEL gives holiness.

THE LAW commands the service of an unwilling bondsman.
THE GOSPEL wins the loving service of a son and a freeman.


Happy Sabbath REST!
Joshua of the Rock!
Max
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And happy 7-days-a-week eternal Sabbath
rest in Christ Jesus to you too, Joshua of the
Rock. --Max of the Cross

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