| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
There are those that use 1 Peter 2:24 to prove that Christ not only died for our spiritual health but for our "physical health. "24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." To me, "by his wounds you have been healed" is sandwiched between, "that we might die to sins" and "Overseer of your souls" and just has to, in the context, apply to our spiritual healing or salvation. This is used by many who claim that we need to stand on that promise for our physical ailments in the same way that we stand on the promise for our spiritual ailment. What comes to my mind right now is that Paul asked God to remove his physical ailments several times and then was happy with the choice that God obviously made by letting him "keep" those ailments to his death. I don't recall the same principle being applied to our spiritual ailments of, "Oh, God see's fit for me to stay un-saved so I'll be happy with that!" Joni Erikson Tadda (SP?) prayed many times for healing and infact, I'm pretty sure she went to a faith healer, (Kathrine Khulman (sp?) and was horribly discouraged when she left paralyzed from the neck down. God could have chosen to heal her completely and there is no question that He can heal anyone, anytime, anyplace! Instead, Joni has a most wonderful ministry and has been privileged to have led thousands to Christ! She stood on the promise of God healing her and God said, "No!" Praise God for that! Joni says that the first thing she will do whan she gets her new body is dance before the Lord as David did;-)) I'd love to see that wouldn't you? God's purpose in this world of sin, ugly as it sounds, is to at times use sickness, paralysis and even death to His glory and it is not up to us finite sinful humans to be the vessels that order God to our beck and call. What does any one think? Could we explore this subject more and try to understand in a loving way, where and why those that believe we are the vessels that order God to our beck and call, get their theology from and a loving way to present to them the error of that idea? IBC | ||
| Patti |
There are those that use 1 Peter 2:24 to prove that Christ not only died for our spiritual health but for our "physical health. "24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." The Gospel is the best antidote for any heresy. The first thing I notice is that the statement of healing is past tense: "by His wounds you have been healed. There are many Christians who cannot think spiritually; who do not understand that living by faith is constantly depending upon things that we cannot see. We have been healed from the scourge of sin by the doing and dying of Jesus Christ. This is not something we can tangibly discern; this is something we cannot see, that we must grasp by faith. Too many Christians are looking for discernable evidence of Christ's salvation. But Jesus told us that it is an evil and adulterous generation that demands a sign. We are saved through our faith; we comprehend the saving work of Jesus Christ, something that we cannot see or touch, and it becomes ours by faith. Whatever we can see, touch, or experience is, by biblical definition, sinful, because "whatever is not of faith is sin." The only righteousness we can lay claim to in this life is the perfect life of Jesus Christ. And by faith in His atoning work, our wounds (our sin, our mortality) are healed. This is spiritual healing; this healing is unto life eternal. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Patti, Very good! More conversation is welcome by all. The particular person I have in mind is a wonderful pastor. He seems well grounded in the gospel, yet seemed to mis-use 1 Peter 2:24;-(( I realize that if all persons were perfect in all things, we wouldn't need a Savior. Yet, I believe that this issue is of more importance than say, some other doctrines, like the rapture etc. Thank you for your above post;-)) :):):)....Maryann | ||
| Patti |
Thank YOU, Maryann. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Yes, I agree it is referring to a Spiritual healing as well but will do some research later this week. I also have to say that it was Scripture like this that has my dad dead today. But, through all of that, I too, have not only seen actual miracles, but I am one of those miracles too and it is medically documented as well. Do I believe in miracles? You bet. I have seen too many not to. Do I believe that passages like this one should keep us from doctors? No. God will do, what He chooses to do. He is Sovereign. However, my belief thus far as to this particular Scripture in discussion, refers to the Spiritual healing unless further research shows me diferently. God Bless all, DtB | ||
| Maryann |
Anyone got anymore thoughts on this? Please share them;-)) | ||
| Patti |
God will do, what He chooses to do. He is Sovereign. Amen, Denise! | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
This is an old thread and a subject I have been thinking about a lot lately. 1 Peter 2:24 is, to me, obviously not speaking of a physical healing, it is something that has already been done and we have not all been already healed in the flesh. However, Mark 16 says that those who believe will lay hands on the sick and they will recover (among many other things, like pick up serpents, which I think is prophetic to the story of Peter in Acts, speaking in tongues-we wont get into that again!) So, is it a matter of belief? Of faith? Why do some get healed and some don't? A lot of times it seems that the signs and wonders are for the unbeliever. I know of a man from here in this area who lives mostly in the jungle of Mexico somewhere who tells stories and has videos of healing leprosy, raising a young boy from the dead who had been dead for 4 hours, which he later adopted, all in the name of Jesus to a people who have never heard of Jesus, who practice voodoo and withcraft. What do you all think? | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
Could very well be. I do know God is capable of doing those types of wonders for God's glory and honor and through Him, but I don't know if it is faith or belief, or what. I really don't know there. Sometimes I'm disappointed in my own lack of belief to pray for healing and laying on of hands. I've only done that once for my husband when his back was out, and his back was instantly better. But that's the only time, though I've seen wondrous answers to my prayers, praise be to God, which were so amazing. I think it is always so amazing to be used by God in any way. It's such a priveledge and honor. Just makes me jump up and down in glee praising God (literally - you see how I had a hard time fitting into SDAism?  Too timid for me...and go figure...I'm at a Baptist church now, where I still feel like the only one wanting to jump up and down!!! ) | ||
| Snowdove (Snowdove) |
I believe that there are Several types of Healings 1) Physical Healing (of the Body) 2) Emotional Healing (from the negitive) 3) Spiritual Healing (Becoming intimate with God) 4) Death (the altimate Healing No more pain or suffering) I hope this helps. Christian Love Snow Dove | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I've pondered this question a lot and never come up with an answer that makes complete sense to me. I actually agree with all three of you above! I know God does do miraculous physical healings. Sometimes it seems that the healing required is the healing of giving up our desire for physical healing and allowing God to be our central focus instead of getting well. I think sometimes God asks us to put our bodies in his hands and to let him be enough, regardless of whether or not we're well. If that is the case, then God redeems the sickness-or whatever it is-and turns it into a source of strength and healing and intimacy with him. Sometimes he grants what we pray for only AFTER giving up our right to cling to the desire for it instead of trusting. Paul's thorn in the flesh might have been such an incident. He asked three times for God to take it from him, but God's answer was, "My strength is made perfect in weakness." I know of a woman who had breast cancer ten or eleven years ago. Her mother died of breast cancer. She was anointed and was prayed for by the elders. (She was not an Adventist, by the way.) She says God chose not to heal her, but as I look on, I'm thinking that perhaps he did. She has not had a recurrence in 11 yearsóshe was only in her 40's when she had it, and apparently it had a genetic component. That kind often is more virulent. Meanwhile, her experience of having gone through cancer and surgery, etc., has given her amazing opportunities over the years to minister to other women with cancer. My conclusion is that I don't actually know how to address this question for myself. I am, however, beginning to think that the reality going on when someone is sick is bigger than we can see. Sometimes it is important for spiritual reasons we can't see for God to heal someone. Sometimes God has other spiritual reasons we can't see that overarch the sickness. Always, I think, Jesus' physical healings went hand-in-hand with spiritual healing. People were not healed and left in the same spiritual condition they were in before being sick. I think we are too limited by being humans in space-time to be able to see the whole reality God deals with when he chooses to heal or not to heal physically. Yes, I do think perhaps our faith is weak sometimes. By weak I mean perhaps we are thinking of our desires and concerns for those who are sick and also for our ability to minister. But ultimately I think God's most astonishing healing is the peace in the soul that allows us to rest in him no matter what the outcome. I do not mean by this to minimize the NT promises of Goid's power and commands to pray for healing. I guess the issue is a bit of a paradox to me. I'm learning, however, that I have to be content with God's sovereignty even if I have major unanswered questions. It's not a "cop-out" mentality, either. It's more like God is teaching me to trust. I'm not sure I've made any sense! But I am grateful to God for his love and for the Holy Spirit. Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
I agree Colleen, it is a matter of God's sovereignty. After all, when Jesus healed the man at the pool in John 5, evidently there were many sick people around that day, yet we only have record of one being healed. The answer to "why" would be "because even Jesus could only cooperate in doing what the Father directed him to do". We can only expect that those who will be healed will be those who HE wants to heal at the time we pray. Unfortunately many Christians will take this view of God's sovereignty as somehow meaning that they simply shouldn't bother to pray for healing at all....whatever will be will be. But that is fatalism and not faith. As you pointed out Sabra, in Mark 16 when the "Great Commission" was given, a part of it included "they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover". So it is a part of our commissioning, for all of us, from Jesus that we DO pray for the sick to recover. It's a pretty sure thing that if we never follow his commission then we are only going to very rarely see divine healing take place. Maybe sometimes we don't get healed because we don't ask. I think sometimes we get in our heads that "divine healing" can only mean an instantaneous healing. But that isn't always the case. Christ touched a blind man's eyes twice before he was fully healed. And it seems to me that in Luke 17, those lepers were healed "as they went". We sometimes put God in a narrow box of our expectations that this thing of divine healing can only happen one way. Christ never said we shouldn't go to physicians. I think that he often uses their hands to work out His healing. I don't see it as any less a matter of His being the force behind the healing, just because that healing comes thru medicine. If I'm in need of healing, I'll take it however He wants to give it! When I've gone into surgery, it certainly wasn't the wisdom or skill of the surgeon I was putting faith in, but GOD. By the way Colleen, someone pointed out to me something interesting about that "thorn in the flesh" business. Do a study of it in the scriptures and you will see that the only time "thorns" in the flesh are mentioned it is referring to troublesome people, not a physical condition. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Colleen and Lydell, Thanks for your input. I definately feel that we should consult physicians for illnesses. God has given us wisdom to take care of a lot of things. I think you have a point, Colleen, that our spiritual condition plays a large part in our physical condition. I've heard that God doesn't deal with our flesh, I'm not too sure about that, but I think our soul is much more important to Him. I think maybe, too, that He doesn't want us to doubt when we ask for healing. Those who pray and think "whatever God's will is will be" don't seem to get the results of those who believe His will is for us to be well. Another thing...I hear some doubters say that the Devil can heal to sway a person from the truth. I'm not finding any biblical support to this. Why would the devil do anything good for anyone? His purpose is to steal, kill and destroy. There is scripture for him performing miracles, signs and wonders, but these could be statues crying and weird things like that, I don't see where he has ever healed anyone. I'm thinking if the devil can heal and people are praising God for it, that is counter-productive. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
I have a difficult time seeing how this text can be applied to physical healing. The context is clearly spiritual. I think that sometimes as myopic humans, we forget that our four score and ten years on this earth is but a blip when compared to eternity. As such, we believe that God has an interest in sustaining life or improving our quality of life down here, when in fact God's interests are MUCH larger. Someone mentioned Joni Erikson Tadda (SP?) earlier. A few years back, I read a quote from her about how discouraged she had become that God hadn't answer her prayers for healing, until she realized that her prayers had in fact been answered, it was just going to be 40 years delayed. This came to me at a time that I needed it most. My father was dying from cancer of the pancreas. I wanted so much for him to be healed, yet in my mind was the memory of the dear sister (mother of young children)who I knew who had had breast cancer. We prayed so earnestly for her, yet she still died. I was asking myself some questions when suddenly, I realized that EVERY PERSON in the Bible who Jesus healed, eventually died. Are we to suggest that his miracles somehow failed? By no means. Instead, Jesus performed miracles in order that "the works of God would be manifest" (John 9:3). I understand now that God is sovereign and he heals whom he chooses to heal. Some he chooses not to heal--right now. But, we all will be healed in God's time. So, I ask you, when it comes to faith, which takes more; to believe that God WILL heal me in the manner in which I want to be healed, or to believe that God CAN heal me, but that his interests may be better served by some temporary discomfort right now. I believe that in many cases the idea of "faith healing" has been twisted in much the same way that people preach the twisted prosperity doctrine. It becomes a lure to many, who end up walking away disappointed when the "goods" have not been delivered. Fortunately, we realize that the "goods" are far better than a few more years on this sinful earth or a couple of extra dollars in our pocket. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
good point Doug, Amen!! | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Heard Perry Stone talking about this the other day, he said that God chooses to heal to further His purpose and that when He doesn't choose to heal, we shouldn't be any more upset that He chose to take one of His children home than if they were taken in the rapture. We should rejoice that their purpose is served here and they can hear "Well done my good and faithful servant" That was kind of uplifting! | ||
| Agapetos (Agapetos) |
I love this verse! I love where Peter took it from in Isaiah 53! The answer to everything is "yes!" because the answer is "yes and amen" in Jesus Christ! The full reconciliation (as Colossians puts it) between mankind and God is in Christ, in the blood! That includes physical healing. According to His will. Even Christ's healings from His three-year ministry, I believe, were because of the power in His blood substitution. The Bible says that Christ "became sin" in order to set us free. He took our sins. He didn't just make them go away. He *took* them! Isaiah 53 says that He "carried our griefs and our sorrows, and by His wounds we are healed." "Healing" flows from the blood of the cross! This goes for spiritual *and* physical. Physical healing came in Christ's ministry to confirm who He was. Today, God works physical healing through Christ's name in order to attest to eternal joy and salvation in His shed blood. The healed body is a testimony to Jesus Christ's atonement on the cross. Just like when Peter and John told the lame man to walk. They looked around and said, "Why are you all looking at us like we healed this guy? It was Jesus' name!" The healings in the book of Acts testified to the risen Lord and the power of His atonement. It is the same today. The most important thing is to ask God for His will in prayer for healing. Before we see healing, we can know in faith that we have all been healed by His wounds. It is just like Paul said of Abraham in Romans, that God was "calling the things that are not as though they are." When we pray for healing, it is the same. We look in faith and know by the blood that there is healing. What we need to seek the Spirit's guidance on is the manifestation of the power of the blood. Christ's ministry of healing did not cease with His return to heaven. He left believers to continue what He began---to heal the sick, cast out demons, and raise the dead, among other things. All of these will be testimonies to the power in His blood to restore all life to Himself. I reccommend reading a former Adventist testimony by Dr. Eoin Giller... http://www.sabbath.com/sdanon/eoin.htm 1st Peter 2:24 speaks of the full reconciliation to God. We live and breathe in Jesus Christ, fully restored to God by His blood. He has given us the commission of speaking Light into the darkness, and we get the privilege of waiting on Him for His commands to do so. The hardest part is trying to figure out when it is His will to heal and when it is not. That's been difficult because we've been very afraid of asking. We've been afraid of hearing "no." I know I've been afraid that it simply won't happen! But really, what's the worst that can happen? He says "no?" God doesn't blast a big "no" at us. He will say "wait" or even "keep praying." Whatever God has in mind will fill us with more joy than we could have known, and will bring greater glory to His love in Jesus Christ. But we needn't be afraid to ask! We will never know if we don't risk disappointment. And we know that our hope does not disappoint us, because after all, it is JESUS! God bless! Ramone |
