| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Dear Maryann, I've never had reason to doubt your honesty. But I don't know that you've had a glimpse of "inside SDAism" that many other formers have had. Also, for example, some scientific studies have been done showing more child abuse -- including sexual -- among SDA families than the general population. That would not be significant except for the CLAIMS that OFTAs make about themselves. Also, I've more names to add to the list of persecuted prophets sent to "the remnant" church. As they say, read it and weep: Walter Ray, Des Ford, Frank Knittle, Merikay Silver, Robert Brinsmead, Lorna Tobler, Gus Tobler, Clay Peck, Jerry Gladson, D.M. Canright, Ed Vick, Ed Heppenstall, Sakae Kubo, Harold Weiss, Richard Ritland, Peter Hare, Ed Lugenbeal, Dale Ratzlaff, Smuts van Rooyen, Don McAdams, Richard Frederick, John Harvey Kellogg, Eric Bahme, Dan Snyder, Ted Benedict, Sydney Cleveland, Mark Martin, Ronald Numbers Ever been to the Vietnam War Memorial wall in Washington DC? MC | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Max;-))!, Great to talk to you! You said: "But I don't know that you've had a glimpse of 'inside SDAism' that many other formers have had." I guess the whole point that I'm trying to make is that the casual observer OR even a friend doesn't know about the *M*SDA war mermorial with the eternally long collage of names on it! *Martyred* I would say that the people that "pointed" me to Christ were casual co-worker's. At the moment that we are being witnessed to by someone, one of the biggest considerations is whether the focus is heavenward OR earthward. If that person is pointing us heavenward, that person was put there by GOD for such a time as this. If God see's fit to use a person who has a multitude of skeletons in his closet or what ever, that is God's choice. Now....I am NOT making light of the issues that you have very rightly brought up in the above post's. I am well aware of the hypocritical behavior of so many of the SDA, JW's etc and so on. But...my voice is raised in emphasis;-)), how is John and Jane Doe going to know all about all the skeletons?? That cames later. Those skeletons are what really got me angry in the Chrurch that kicked me out! Along with the severe legalism! If typical Baptist, non-denominational, SDA, Mormon, JW and Catholic families got together on a Wed. afternoon at the park and broke out the guitars and sang hymns and generally Christian song and some un-churched families were nearby, they would think, "What a nice bunch of Christians are out with their families having fun and singing." They may be impressed so much that they come over and talk to some of the families. Nice and good as all the families may seem, some belong to a cult! All people are witnesses to something at all times! So, again, the only true witness is when one is pointing to Christ. Anyone can witness with good deeds. But...(raised voice again;-)) a Christian pointing to Christ is NOT a good or credible witness unless his actions ALSO show that he is walking with Christ. Down to a whisper.....:):):)....IBC | ||
| Max |
^^If that person is pointing us heavenward, that person was put there by GOD for such a time as this.^^ I totally agree. | ||
| Cindy |
Dear Max, Maryann, Denise, Hi! :-) I would like to add a few of my observations. I must say that most of the Adventists "I" have known, and still know, are genuine; striving to be loving Christians. They want to follow God and His commandments... And, although I would acknowledge some "corruption" and love of "power" within the ranks of the hierarchy of Adventism; there are many humble, kind people there also! My experience with most Adventists has been one of much love. I am very grateful for the help so many in our church gave me when I needed it. (Even though I think a "veil" remains over their eyes in regards to the New Covenant blessing of the total REST we have in Christ now!!) My disagreement with Adventism has never been with personalities or how I think I have been treated. I suppose I have been fortunate compared to others! Because of this, I can see that people would be attracted to join a church with these type of people; especially those newcomers who do not understand the completeness and rest we already possess when we trust in Jesus alone! This is one reason I maintain that the Finished Work of Christ on the Cross must remain our main message! The "main thing" must continue to remain the "main thing"! Not our witness of love to each other (although important), not our showing the fruits of the Spirit, but the preaching of CHRISTS'S PERFECT WORK FOR US in which we may now REST! The Gospel is the issue that cuts through the heart of any man-made religion. Presenting the Sufficiency of Christ is the the only Truth that will reveal the errors in these doctrines. I figure problems in these areas of pride and hypocrisy can occur in other denominations, too. Our sinful natures continue to struggle against these two sins... (although I can see there is an added dimension when a church claims to be the "true remnant" that "keeps" God's commandments...) But my disagreeement has been, and remains, a core theological disagreement! I've wished at times in the past that the 27 Doctrines were true... My whole upbringing and way of thinking has undergone a gradual, but definite change. But, Praise God! Jesus has been worth it!! And Jesus remains more than Enough to cover whatever I think I may have lost... :-)) Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Valm |
Cindy, I agree wholeheartedly, particularly after all I have experienced in the last couple of weeks. One of which was that I found out this sunday that four families in our little church have moved to other congregations. It had nothing to do with whether the Gospel message was being proclaimed, although the lack of this is a problem. It had to do with people, attitudes, lack of programs, resistance to change ect.... We must first and foremost point people back to the Cross of Christ, The love of God, The Testimony of Jesus... However, in the world in which we live in people just naturally look at the lives of other people to determine whether they are interested in pursuing their philosphy or listening to their testimony. So I feel in some ways to be an effect witness to this wonderful message, my behaviors have to be intact. I wish this reality was not true, but it seems to be that way. I have been jazzing on Ephesians today. As well as being reminded that I am SEALED as God's own forever, I am told that I am saved through faith so I MAY NOT BOAST. And then I am reminded of the GOOD WORKS God has prepared for me to do. Those works have come to mean to me "Exciting Adventures" God has in store for me. Tonight I kling to the promises that Christ's grace is sufficient, his kingdom is now, life is more abundant in him, his yoke is light and burden is easy, he has placed his laws in my heart and has provided me with these exciting adventures. God Bless you all and keep praying for me and my family. Valerie | ||
| Maryann |
This has been a great run on this thread. I have really come to realize that our witness, our personal witness is to either Christ or NOT to Christ. Each and every person is a witness to someone, somewhere, all the time. We, as Christains, have an awesome respnsiblity! | ||
| Max |
Morning, Cindy, Valerie and Maryann, Are you three the only ones beside me still left posting regularly on FAFF? As it is written, ìAnd now these three remain: faith, hope and love.î Now I donít know which one of you is which, but I do know that the first shall be last and the last first. I know as well that no matter when each started working in the vineyard of the Lord -- early, mid-day or late -- each of you receives a denarius. Cindy, I honor the strength and depth of your convictions on continuing the "main thing" -- the preaching of Christís perfect work for us in which we may now rest. Itís clear that ìyou have been with Jesus,î as someone (Lori?) who used to post here a lot used to say. Valerie, your emphasis -- ^^that I am sealed as God's own forever, I am told that I am saved through faith so I may not boast. And then I am reminded of the good works God has prepared for me to do. Those works have come to mean to me "exciting adventures" God has in store for me^^ -- is powerful. Maryann, your observation that ìour personal witness is to either Christ or not to Christ. Each and every person is a witness to someone, somewhere, all the timeî -- is precious. And so Iíll add my testimony: DOES LOVE LOVE? If Love -- meaning the love of Christ on the cross -- is written on our hearts within us, then the preaching of the ìmain thingî can only be done with love. For ìIf I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.î NIV 1 Corinthians 13:1. Is not a robotic recitation of the historical facts of Christís ìperfect workî on the cross not precisely the work that "a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal" does? For the Lovework -- once outside of us -- must now be inside of us. And to say ìI have nothing in meî is to deny the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Yes, after His Lovework on the cross was finished, the Son God did rest in the tomb. And, again yes, it is by His pure grace alone that finished-work rest remains eternally ours by faith alone. But Christ didnít remain eternally resting in the tomb forever. He rose early Sunday morning and figuratively exploded into more Lovework: * appearing to people He had redeemed, * explaining the foretelling prophecies, * showing his miraculously healed scars, * broiling fish for his disciples to eat, * eating a piece before them to prove He wasnít a ghost, * rising from heaven below into heaven above and sitting down at the right hand of the Father God. Is it not Lovework who died, was buried and rose? ìWe were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, WE TOO MAY LIVE A NEW LIFE. Romans 6:4 NIV. He rose to enable us neither to ìcontinue in sin that grace may aboundî nor to perform the robotic deadworks of human pride, which in God's eyes are worse by far than any licentiousness. Is Christís finished work still in the tomb? Or has it been resurrected in our lives? For me the question is not so much, DO we preach it? But rather, HOW do we preach it? Reciting historical facts may or may not be a good work. But reciting them without love is definitely an evil work. For even the rattlesnake in Eden recited Godís word to Eve: ìYea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?î And did not the identical reptile quote Scripture to young Jesus in the wilderness? ìHe shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.î So I'll ask again the question: DOES LOVE LOVE? For the answer letís hear Paul in NIV 1Corinthians 13:1 If I SPEAK in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I HAVE THE GIFT OF PROPHECY and CAN FATHOM ALL MYSTERIES and ALL KNOWLEDGE, and if I HAVE A FAITH THAT CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I GIVE ALL I POSSESS to the poor and SURRENDER MY BODY TO THE FLAMES, but have not love, I gain nothing. 4 Love IS PATIENT, love IS KIND. It DOES NOT ENVY, it does not BOAST, it IS NOT PROUD. 5 It is not RUDE, it is not SELF-SEEKING, it is not EASILY ANGERED, it KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS. 6 Love DOES NOT DELIGHT IN EVIL but REJOICES WITH THE TRUTH. 7 It always PROTECTS, always TRUSTS, always HOPES, always PERSEVERES. 8 Love NEVER FAILS. But where there are PROPHECIES, they WILL CEASE; where there are TONGUES, they WILL BE STILLED; where there is KNOWLEDGE, it WILL PASS AWAY. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. Max of the Cross | ||
| Cindy |
Max, a very good morning to you! Yes, I think Love loves! :-)) That chapter in Corinthians is really wonderful. Putting my own name in there with those attributes of love... what a challenge, or, as Valerie says, an "exciting adventure" to live by...and only Christ in me can ever come close to that. By faith in His Eternal Grace of His Finished Work,--already fulfilled completely and perfectly for me!--I rest in knowing that any of my striving to live in this grand love is because I am ALREADY a member of His Kingdom! I agree, Max, along with being ASSURED of Christs' Finished work on the Cross--His life,Death, and resurrection IN MY PLACE--2000 years ago, I want to remember to resurrect this Good News! in my life every day, and LIVE in the REALITY of His Kingdom! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Patti |
Wonderful points, Cindy. Here is another that came to me: "He who is forgiven the most, loves the most." The more we see our great need, the more we see how unworthy we are of any of God's regard, the more we realize how hopelessly we fall short of God's perfect standard as revealed to us in Jesus Christ, the more we will appreciate the depth and the completeness of our forgiven-ness, the more humbly grateful we are. This is perpetual. I started this thread to try and focus in on exactly what our Christian witness should be. Evidently I have been thoroughly overruled. But I will try to keep saying it until someone takes me seriously. Our Christian witness is not what happens in us. It is not the "fruits of the Spirit." Our Christian witness is of the historical saving act of Jesus Christ. You will not find any texts that say that faith comes of observing someone else's changed life. On the contrary, Faith comes of hearing, and hearing of the Word of God. Jesus Christ IS the eternal Word of God. Whenever we mingle our own works, "fruits of the Spirit," changed lives, regenerated character into the foundation of our salvation OR our testimony, we remain on a foundation of sand. I hear people on here going around and around worrying about if their life reflects the character of Jesus Christ enough so that their witness is strong and clear to the "world." And that is my point exactly. Our characters can NEVER even come close to reflecting the perfection of Jesus Christ. Our witness, our testimony is to the life and death of Jesus Christ, ONLY. If we think we are winning people to Jesus Christ by our sporadic attempts at "agape love," then we are fooling ourselves greatly. Not that we should not try to love others as ourselves--an impossible task that we are commanded to keep trying to achieve--but faith comes only of hearing of Jesus Christ; not of works--any works, including attempting to "love one's neighbor"--lest any man should boast. And whenever we testify to our own works, we are, in essence, putting ourselves in the middle of our universe. You cannot point to your "righteousness" (the work of God in you through the Holy Spirit) without giving "glory" to yourself. When we "testify" to our changed lives, we are, in essence, asking others to follow US, to do as WE do. When we witness to the perfect saving act of Jesus Christ, we are giving glory to Him only, we are offering them a gift beyond price. The primary work of the Holy Spirit is to testify of Jesus. Jesus Christ and Him crucified IS our perfect testimony. 1 Tim. 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles. It is our full salvation. It is the message of life for a dying world. When we testify to our own righteousness, it is like throwing a drowning man an anchor. Or just telling him to swim harder. Or telling him that because you were able to swim to shore, he can also. Nonsense, of course. Our message is not a "how to" message; it is an "It is finished" message. It is not a mystery; it is history. Jesus Christ has perfectly won our full salvation. It is a message that is equally important, equally significant, equally personal and relevant to every person who hears it. Hear Paul's testimony to his "changed character." 2 Tim. 12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I AM the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Hardly a testimony to Paul's regenerated character, this passage focuses on God's grace, His infinite mercy, His forgiveness to the chief of sinners. Paul's witness to himself is that he is a great example in that Christ had mercy on him in spite of his (continued) status of "chief of sinners." He never says, "Now, look at me. See what God can accomplish in the life of someone who will follow Him?" He never indicates that he is beyond the state of chief-of-sinner-hood. At the very end, he is still as dependent upon the mercy of God in forgiving him than he was at the beginning. 1 Tim 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. Not "unto them also who fight good fights," but "unto them also that love His appearing." And how can we truly love and long for His appearing if we are still looking to ourselves for confirmation of our acceptance with God? How can we look up and say, "This is our God, we have waited for Him and He will save us" if we are not depending (trusting, believing, having confidence--faith--in) the great saving act of Jesus Christ for us? "I determined to know nothing among you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified." Jesus is ENOUGH. HE is the Gospel. We can testify with confidence of our acceptance with God, because Jesus Christ, our Substitute and Surety, was resurrected from the dead and ascended to the very presence of God Himself. Jesus was accepted, the Lamb was worthy; therefore, I can be assured that I, too, because of the doing and dying of Jesus Christ, am accepted by the Father. And, not me only, but all who trust in Him. This is the Gospel. This is the perfect testimony: Jesus Christ has saved His people to the uttermost. To Him be all glory and honor and blessing forever. | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Patti, If it were not for the Christlike lives lived by Kenny, Ralph, Dana and a guy who's name I can't remember, in their everyday contact with me, I would NOT have asked them about the GOD they served. Their lives planted the seeds that the Holy Spirit made sure that other's watered like Swidoll, Ratzlaff, Stanley, FAF, You and a host of others. I would not have known about the salvation by grace alone that Christ provided for me! I would most likely not be here today nor would I be a Christian with a burn in my heart for those that were in the same sinking boat I was in just a few short years ago! Now, instead of just saying what first comes to mind, I ask myself (usually;-) if that would be a good witness to Christ or if it another black mark against Christ name in the mind of someone that is lost. I laughed at a comment that was, in my mind, very funny at Thanksgiving. I was an awful witness to Christ!!!! Especially since I got to giggling over it several times during the day. One snicker may have been overlooked, but not several sessions of giggles. Looking back at it, had I even thought of my actions being a witness, I would have not gone past the first snicker. I will have to apologize for my behavior at an appropriate time in the future;-((( I don't like doing that!!;-(((( This incident seared into my mind and heart the importance of what effect my, our, your witness has on others. Now, if I want to talk about Christ to any one of those people at that Thanksgiving table, I can guarantee that they will have the memory of me giggling un-necessesarily at an un-called for and rather nasty remark. (The remark was so out of line that the 25 year old son was severely reamed out by his father after he sobered up!) MY WITNESS PUT A BLACK MARK ON CHRIST'S NAME AND DILUTED ANY FURTURE WITNESS THAT I MAY HAVE AND MAYBE EVEN SOME OTHER PERSON I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO MAY WITNESS OF AND TO CHRIST IN THE FUTURE! You can't get away from the fact that the life YOU, I, WE live gives credence to our walk with Christ. ìOur personal witness is to either Christ or not to Christ. Each and every person is a witness to someone, somewhere, all the time.î If this is overruling, GOSH, I'm sorry. Ashamed of my un-christian witness IBC....Insured By Christ:-) | ||
| Maryann |
AND! I will ask a question that I think Charles Stanley asked. This will be as close to the thought as I can remember from a tape about our our christian walk. How many of you can say that you did NOT have a person introduce you to Christ? Unless you were marooned alone on an Island all your life and a Bible washed up on the beach and you could figure out how to read it, you most likely had SOMEONE that introduced you to Christ. The witness was in the form of a tract, a Bible, a Bible study, a tip on a Christian radio station, a telling of what Christ did for you on the cross, taking you to Church, your parents, your child, an Aunt or Uncle, a friend, a Christian novel, a biography of a christian, a visit to a hospital and the list can on and on and on and on. The importance of a life lived for Christ is of vital importance to those lost folk around us. If we don't reflect Christlike or Christian behavior, we are a lousy witness to and of HIM! IBC | ||
| Patti |
Maryann: "How many of you can say that you did NOT have a person introduce you to Christ?" Of course. "Faith comes of hearing." "How shall we hear unless we have a teacher?" Faith does not come of observing someone's changed character, but of hearing of our acceptance with God for the sake of His Son Jesus Christ. Maryann: "The importance of a life lived for Christ is of vital importance to those lost folk around us." The importance of Christ's perfect life is of vital importance to those lost folk around us. If I work myself into being a millionaire, how does that help those living in poverty around me? It may inspire a few to work harder, but sooner or later, they will fail in despair. Others it will merely make envious. The only thing that will give them any hope at all is the perfection of Jesus Christ. If folks are looking at us for an example of righteousness, they will surely be disappointed the more they really know about is. Surely an honest self-examination (such as Denise has shown to us here) will reveal this fact. Maryann: "If we don't reflect Christlike or Christian behavior, we are a lousy witness to and of HIM!" Paul's witness is not one of his being Christ-like; his message was not one of forgiveness just for the past and of truimph over his sinful human flesh in the present. His message was one of forgiveness and acceptance in spite of his inability to do the things that he knew that he should. This is exactly what I have been trying to get across. NO PART of our witness is about ourselves, except, as Paul witnessed, to the astounding mercy of God in forgiving sinners, "of whom I am chief." It is all about forgiveness. "If we think we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us." If we think we are doing OK, that we are becoming more sinless and are emulating Christ, we are fooling ourselves. The more we see of the sinless perfection of Christ, the more sinful we see ourselves, not the LESS. I know you would never advocate our thinking that we are sinless; so why do we witness to something that will always be full of sin, i.e. our characters? "I determined to know nothing among you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified." God uses humanity to spread His Word. He uses sinful flesh to point others to the sinlessness of Jesus Christ. But we never, never are in a position to point others to our own holiness. In doing so, we have become the Pharisee, thanking God that we are not as others are. We must always pray the prayer of the publican, and we must always tell others that our only hope comes in this same confession, daily, hourly, always: "Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner." And our testimony to a hungering and thirsting world is not, "Look at me; you can have what I have," but, "Look to Christ; He forgives sinners. Completely." To Him be all praise forever. | ||
| Max |
Patti, ^^Our Christian witness is not what happens in us.^^ True enough. What what happens in us witnesses to what happened on the cross. | ||
| Max |
Patti, Our Christian witness is not what happens in us. It is not the "fruits of the Spirit." If the fruits of the Spirit do not happen in us and show outwardly, then we are not branches of the Vine. | ||
| Max |
^^Our Christian witness is of the historical saving act of Jesus Christ.^^ If the fruits of the Spirit do not happen in us and show outwardly, then we are not branches of the Vine. Thus, says James, "Show me your faith [in the Vine] without deeds [without bearing fruits of the Spirit], and I will show you my faith [in the Vine] by what I do [bearing fruits of the Spirit]." RSV James 2:19. | ||
| Patti |
"True enough. What what happens in us witnesses to what happened on the cross" If this is true, then when we sin, when we fall short of God's glory, then we have no more witness. | ||
| Max |
Patti, ^^You will not find any texts that say that faith comes of observing someone else's changed life.^^ NIV 1 Thessalonians 1:3 We continually remember before our God and Father YOUR WORK PRODUCED BY FAITH, YOUR LABOR PROMPTED BY LOVE, and YOUR ENDURANCE INSPIRED BY HOPE in our Lord Jesus Christ. 4 For WE KNOW, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 BECAUSE OUR GOSPEL CAME TO YOU NOT SIMPLY WITH WORDS, BUT ALSO WITH POWER, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know HOW WE LIVED among you for your sake. 6 YOU BECAME IMITATORS of us and of the Lord; in spite of SEVERE SUFFERING, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. 7 And so YOU BECAME A MODEL to all the believers in Macedonia and Achaia. 8 The LORDíS MESSAGE RANG OUT FROM YOU not only in Macedonia and Achaia -- YOUR FAITH IN GOD HAS BECOME KNOWN everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it, 9 for THEY themselves REPORT what kind of reception you gave us. They TELL HOW YOU TURNED TO GOD FROM IDOLS to serve the living and true God.... | ||
| Max |
Patti, ^^"He who is forgiven the most, LOVES the most." The more we see our great need, the more we see how unworthy we are of any of God's regard, the more we realize how hopelessly we fall short of God's perfect standard as revealed to us in Jesus Christ, the more we will appreciate the depth and the completeness of our forgiven-ness, the more humbly GRATEFUL we are. This is perpetual.^^ True, for LOVE is a good work, and GRATITUDE is also. | ||
| Patti |
Thus, says James, "Show me your faith [in the Vine] without deeds [without bearing fruits of the Spirit], and I will show you my faith [in the Vine] by what I do [bearing fruits of the Spirit]." RSV James 2:19. James also says that if we fall short of the smallest demand of the law, we are guilty of it all. Our pride, our satisfaction at "winning" an argument, our anger at being contradicted, our need to be "right," our failure to accept others as they are, our twisting of Scripture to fit our 'agenda': these are just as heinous sins as murder and adultery. We are righteous by faith only, NEVER in reality, until this corruptible puts on incorruption. I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can honestly examine his/her own life and think that it in any way glorifies God. Or maybe it is just that everyone here is less of a sinner than I am. But I do know myself, and I know that in myself, I have nothing to brag about; no righteousness to tout before humanity as evidence of Christ's salvation. And Paul gives the same self-evaluation: Romans 7:9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. 14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I AM! (<--Notice PRESENT TENSE) [Question]: Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 [Answer]: Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind (by faith) am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature (in reality; in the flesh) a slave to the law of sin. Our only hope is to stand on the promises of Jesus to forgive us and to accept us because of what He has done for us. Christianity is not about changed lives; it is about the forgiveness and acceptance of hopeless sinners. It is about the justification (setting right with God) of the ungodly, not the making righteous of repentant sinners. This is the Catholic Gospel, one thoroughly repudiated by the reformers. Our continuous hope and strength come from our continued state of forgiveness, not upon the state of our character. The Gospel is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. We must not divert any focus from Him and His perfect saving work for those who believe that He is faithful and will keep His promise to save them. "And I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men to Me." Let us always uplift the crucified and risen Savior, Who alone is worthy of glory and praise. | ||
| Max |
atti, ^^You will not find any texts that say that faith comes of observing someone else's changed life. On the contrary, Faith comes of hearing, and hearing of the Word of God. Jesus Christ IS the eternal Word of God.^^ Faith also comes by observing. The believers in Thessalonica imitated Paul and his companions, believed, and then "BECAME A MODEL to all the believers in Macedonia and Achaia. The LORDíS MESSAGE RANG OUT FROM YOU not only in Macedonia and Achaia -- YOUR FAITH IN GOD HAS BECOME KNOWN EVERYWHERE. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it." |
