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Denisegilmore
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is another one on love:

1 Peter 1:20-23

"He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

"Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

"Now that you have purified yourselves by OBEYING THE TRUTH SO THAT YOU HAVE SINCERE LOVE FOR YOUR BROTHERS, LOVE ONE ANOTHER DEEPLY, FROM THE HEART."

"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God."

God Bless,
DtB

P.S. So Father God raised the Son God? Just an honest question. A question stemming from someone else's question on another thread. Or it may have been a comment. Either way, what is the answer?
Denisegilmore
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another one on good deeds:

1 Peter 2:12

"Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, THEY MAY SEE YOUR GOOD DEEDS and glorify God on the day he visits us."

God Bless,
DtB
Cindy
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 6:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise, Thanks for your reply. :-)) I have loved the Psalms, too! I'm going to look at Psalm 91 at my lunch hour time today...

Have a good day, Denise, remembering always WHO YOU BELONG TO!!!

We're never outcasts with Jesus; by believing and trusting in Him WE ARE INCLUDED in the best possible thing... :-))

Grace always,
Cindy
Cindy
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 7:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Morning Max! :-))) Unfortunately, I'm running late...But want to tell you I appreciate your stress on our SECURITY IN CHRIST!

I agree with you about suffering...in fact, we are assured, or 'promised', suffering and trouble in this world! (by Christ Himself and Paul and the other writers...)

Max, you wrote above:


"being eternally and securely saved, we
WILL undergo suffering. This suffering WILL
produce character. Not to get us into heaven,
but because there IS suffering in heaven this
side of the Second Coming. After that suffering
will be no more. But till then there will be
suffering. But our suffering is nowhere near as
great as the suffering of the non-elect. And of
our joy the non-elect know nothing.
And we DO NOT boast or testify or witness of
our suffering and our character
transformation. Rather, our character
transformation testifies and witnesses to the
power of the Holy Spirit within us."


To me, the Holy Spirit's first work is to testify to Christ's Finished Work FOR US on the Cross!!

THEN.... He STAYS!! with us, to COMFORT and GUIDE us!!

Grace always,
Cindy
Denisegilmore
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1 Peter 2:21

Is someone going to answer or try to answer my question above with regard to this verse? Waiting with bated breath.

Same with 1 Peter 1:21. a question has been posed.

God Bless,
Denise
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Cindy,

^^The Holy Spirit's first work is to testify to
Christ's Finished Work FOR US on the Cross!!

THEN.... He STAYS!! with us, to COMFORT
and GUIDE us!!^^

I wouldn't argue with that. Why do you single
me out to tell?

Hope all's well with you. --MC
Cindy
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Max, ?? maybe you "read" me wrong... I was only addressing this to YOU since I thought YOU have a good realization of the SECURITY we possess in Christ!! I LIKED what you wrote! :-)) :-))

I guess I was just trying to emphasize what I believe the Holy Spirit's work is:

...first to testify to Christ's Finished Work FOR US!! and then ALSO to STAY with us continually to COMFORT and GUIDE us!

GUIDING US in "holy" living here on earth, in the midst of our often stressful circumstances...the trials we should "count as pure joy"; because this testing of our faith develops perseverance!

And the Holy Spirit always, always, brings to rememberance the Absolute Assurance we now, and forever, have because we are clothed and cleansed with Christ's Righteousness Alone!

Grace always,
Cindy
Maryann
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Max,

When the question was asked to my friend (SDA) of what the Holy Spirit's work was after the "remnant" are living without a mediator, he said, "A comforter!" Meaning there was no reason to guide us in the ways of righteousness now that we were standing on our own. It was sorta like the Holy Spirit was just a quilt/comforter to keep the remnant warm while standing naked of Christ's clothing before God!

I was shocked and I don't shock easy. Is that a common SDA teaching of the Holy Spirit????

IBC
Denisegilmore
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann,

I got onto this forum at last,,it's not been easy to get on here tonight for some reason. anyone else having this problem?

Anyhow, Maryann, I found that this is the standard idea within the confines of my research into my many friends that are SDAs.

They believe that God will not do anything until they are (they meaning, God's 'true' remnant) are perfected in CHARACTER. Then God will do His thing. So because they are perfect before God acts, according to them they will be comforted knowing that they are perfect and can stand without a mediator.

I really try to drill into them that, first of all, we have no clue as to what perfection is, also that we cannot control God and that we will need and it is Scriptural, a mediator in order to stand before God the Father.

They are persistant in trying to become perfect and live in fear daily. Forever working and working on doing good deeds, paying tithes, keeping the Sabbath (or so they think they are), et-cetera.

It is heartbreaking to watch the fear in their eyes when I open the Bible and they don't have EGW as their defense in some book at hand.

I also have witnessed, all too many times now, how they will purposely change the subject. It is not a subject they want to think about, let alone, talk about.

So, I bring this obvious action on their part, to them. They claim they are not trying to change the subject but that they know the truth and that's all they need to know and eventually or as their expression goes, by and by, they will be nearer to God as God sees their need.

Their lack of wanting to know truth, as stated in Scripture, is frustrating to deal with. Yet at the same time, I continue to try to impress upon them the Holy Bible, without EGWs interpretation put to it. I ask them to read a Scripture that will tell a real simple truth and they do. But when I ask them what that Scripture says to them, they say, 'yes but,,,ellen said.'

I keep on trying as there is this fire, no matter my depression or ponderings.

Hope this helps you to know that I'm seeing and hearing the same thing you are hearing.

God Bless you Maryann and I love you too! :)

your sister in Christ Jesus,
DtB
Denisegilmore
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 2:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1 Peter 2:21

Is someone going to answer or try to answer my question above with regard to this verse? Waiting with bated breath.

Same with 1 Peter 1:21. a question has been posed.

God Bless,
Denise
Denisegilmore
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just pretend that I'm new here and help me have some insight into these Scriptures and their meaning as my questions above ask.

1 Peter 2:21
1 Peter 1:21

1. Is Jesus our EXAMPLE?
2. Did Father God raise Jesus from the dead?

These are honest questions with a genuine need for someone to respond.

God Bless anyone who responds,
Denise
Max
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maryann,

Your friend needs to read Isaiah 9:6 where the
Messiah or Christ to be born was to be named
"Wonderful Counselor." This Scripture leaves
your friend in a self-contradictory position. For
if Mediator = Christ = Wonderful Counselor =
Holy Spirit -- and he already admits that the
Counselor will be with him -- then how can he
stand without a Mediator?

He hasn't learned Lessen No. One, yet, has
he? Here it is: KJV Deuteronomy 6:4 ìHear, O
Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.î

This text is very similar to many found in the
New Testament. Such as, KJV John 14:9 ìHe
that hath seen me hath seen the Father.î And,
John 10:30 ìI and the Father are one."

And so, tell your friend that on the basis of
these texts alone, it is impossible for EGW to
be correct in saying that the redeemed will
ìstand without a mediator.î

MC
Max
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 4:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise,

^^They believe that God will not do anything
until they are (they meaning, God's 'true'
remnant) are perfected in CHARACTER. Then
God will do His thing.^^

This is another example of SDAs trying to
control God. If they fail to achieve perfection
(sinlessness), then Christ CAN'T come. Heh
heh heh!

They have yet to learn: "God is not mocked."
"He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh."
"The stones will cry out."

Do you want to send an icy chill down and up
the back of any sincere OFTA? Then sing this
OFTA song: "The Lord is coming. Are you
ready? The Lord is coming. Are you ready?
Would your heart be right [are you perfect?
sinless?] if He came tonight? The Lord is
coming. Are you ready?"

Deep down in the heart of every OFTA lies the
secret that none dares admit at Wednesday
night prayer meeting: "No, I'm not ready."

This is the number that EGW has done on
them.

MC

MC
Max
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 4:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise, dear heart,

I don't have time to give very detailed answers
with accompanying scriptural support, so I
have to just shoot from the hip.

1. Is Jesus our EXAMPLE?

Absolutely, but only in some of his actions of
his life. If he were your example in all things,
then you would all have to die for the sins of
the world.

2. Did Father God raise Jesus from the dead?

Absolutely. God the Son raised himself. God
the Father raised him. And the Holy Spirit
raised him. "Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God
is One." Can't be separated. Never has been.
Never will be. Except for a brief period of time
full of deep mystery when Jesus said, "My
God, why has thou forsaken me?"
Cindy
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 6:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise, Morning! :-)) Like Max wrote above, Jesus is much more than our Example! He is our Substitute!

Where is the GROUND OF OUR ASSURANCE!?

NOT in the evidence of OUR own moral growth! But in CALVARY alone, Christ Crucified for us!!

Either we preach that we are helpless sinners in need of a radical Atonement by a Perfect Substitute, or else we preach human potential--Christ brought in as an example,to boost our own right-doing...

We absolutely need a Savior first!

Only then can we gratefully live IN Grace, humbly following his example of loving servanthood to each other...

Grace always,
Cindy
Patti
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise,
I haven't been ignoring you. I have been out of town peddling my wares at a convention.

You asked about 1 Peter 2:21. First and foremost, look at the context:

1; Peter 2:19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.
20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.
21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth."
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.
24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.
25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

It is dangerous to take a single text out of context and apply it elsewhere. What Peter is saying here is exactly the same thing Jesus was saying in the Beatitudes:

"Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake."

The example of Christ's that we are implored to follow here is not in perfection of character, but in not retaliating when we are maligned, abused and persecuted by those who do not believe. Of course, we cannot truly fulfil this either, because we are sinful and we long for vengeance and satisfaction when we are wronged. But we are to strive to this ideal. But this is not the Gospel. This has no bearing on our salvation.

As Luther said, we must thoroughly and completely separate grace (which is the foundation of our salvation) and law (which can only convict us of our unworthiness). Grace brings life; law brings death and condemnation. Our testimony is of the grace of God in Jesus Christ which frees us from the condemnation of the law. When we testify of what we should be or should do, we are preaching law. There is no salvation in the law; there is only salvation in the grace of God in forgiving and accepting us for the sake of the doing and dying of Jesus Christ, to Him be all glory, honor, blessing, and praise forever.
Denisegilmore
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Patti,

Thank you and God Bless you!

DtB, your sister in Christ Jesus
Denisegilmore
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is just a paragraph from the EGW estate for today...tell me your thoughts..anyone:

"There is absolutely no safeguard against evil but truth.
No man can stand firm for right in whose heart the truth does
not abide. There is only one power that can make and keep us
steadfast-- the power of God, imparted
to us through the grace of Christ."

God Bless all,
DtB, your sister
Denisegilmore
Posted on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Max and Cindy for not only some more answers to my questions but the reassurance as well.

May God Bless you both richly!

DtB, your sister in our Lord Jesus our God
Cindy
Posted on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Denise, I would say that must be one of EGW's good quotes! I would agree that:

""There is absolutely no safeguard against evil but truth.
No man can stand firm for right in whose heart the truth does
not abide. There is only one power that can make and keep us
steadfast-- the power of God, imparted
to us through the grace of Christ."

But this is also one of those quotes that can be taken different ways by different people! :-)

I think we must clarify the meaning of TRUTH always!!...

"Truth" is not confined to a group of people or set of doctrines, but is in A PERSON... CHRIST!

TRUTH has a NAME--and that wonderful name is Jesus Christ!! who declares, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE!"

And again, commenting on the quote, I would agree that the only way we can stand firm, or steadfast, is by the power of God given to us by the grace of Christ.

And yet, OUR GROUND FOR ASSURANCE is ALWAYS based on the Completed work of Christ FOR US!... an ALREADY PERFECT SUBSITUTION AND RECONCILIATION that PRESENTS US FAULTLESS before God, gaining us ACCESS into HIS HOLY PRESENCE!

Such great news!! Even on the days when our feelings are more of despair and not ones of "firmness and steadfastness!"

JESUS HAS ACCOMPLISHED ALL THAT IS NECESSARY for us to be INCLUDED as members of His Kingdom! We ARE co-heirs with HIM, and children of A KING!

Grace always,
Cindy

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