| Author | Message | ||
| Chyna |
first of all please pray for me coz I just invited my ex-b/f who is deeply SDA via e-mail to go with me to FAF this Friday. he hasn't spoken a single word to me for about half a year now. I still don't know why God wanted me to ask him, it's not as if he's going to say yes. secondly, this subject title. I was reading about dangerous religious groups and the quote that caught my eye the most was: "At this point there is no denying they've invested so much in (SDAism), realizing that (SDAism) is not the servant of God they thought (it) was." People spend their ENTIRE LIVES in Adventism. So many people's stories I read here are about years and years spent being raised or simply living out their lives as Adventists. and yet? Why do they stay? I'm going to suggest that the INVESTMENT is so great! They've invested everything: family, friends, community, church, trust in spiritual leaders, livelihoods. Everything they're surrounded by is Adventism, they've given Adventism all of themselves and to leave it, what would they have left? Just Jesus :). love, Chyna | ||
| Valm |
Dear Chyna, You are so correct in the total INVESTMENT in which people give to Adventism. And that is part of what is keeping them back. But it even goes further than that. There is that ever haunting belief that if you do leave you have lost your SALVATION. The belief system is set up that if a person even thinks about thoughts outside of the parameters set for themselves they are fulfilling last day prophecy. Therefore, if I read Galatians and see the gospel message, EGW prophecied that people would think this way and I am fulfilling her prophecy. Then there is that deep rooted belief that all other Christian churches are apostate and follow the "beast". So where do you go for support? Usually the Sabbath issue or "message" as an SDA would call it, is the last doctrine held onto. And this doctrine encompasses the above. If not keeping the Sabbath is a sign of the beast and you have that belief, how could you go to another church? I can tell you from my family experience that for my Father to walk into another church to worship would be like you or I going to a Satanic cult group to worship (In his mind). He has great difficulty even attending a funeral in another church. Yes my family invested or invests everything in there Adventism. But I believe for them they would leave everything if they would truly belief that that was the right thing to do. I saw my parents leave everything they knew to become who they are now and have no doubt they would do it all over if they believed it was the right thing. There is another issue that I think disables people to consider a point of view outside of their cult. There comes a point in that conversion that they have to face that their works within the SDA church were counterproductive to the Gospel message. This is something they in earnest were striving to do. For my family, who has brought many people into the SDA church, this would bring on a very large issue to resolve. I can't even find the words to express this. I know that they are very sincere in what they do and would find this devastating to know otherwise. Finally, I think many SDA people who do find large errors in their point of doctrine, do accept the Gospel message. I think they do have Jesus as much as I do. They choose to stay because of many reason, the biggest in my mind would be for their children to grow up in a intact family environment. I think that I would do the same if I were in their position. Sitting here at my keyboard, I do not know if that is the right thing or not, who am I to judge? But it is certainly understandable. Chyna, you bring much to the discussions here on FAF. I hope that this helps you in your uderstanding of how complex leaving is. I will try to post further on parts of my own personal experience. | ||
| Valm |
Hello, I am back and groaning. I just wrote my whole story over the last 40 minutes. Got up from the computer and my husband opened another window and guess what? All of my writing poof, spontaneously gone in cyber space. I am not a happy wife right now. I will try to briefly tell you what I learned in my 40 minutes of rambling. First when I left the church I DID NOT HAVE THE GOSPEL MESSAGE. I left the total lifestyle, people, diminished my relationship with my family, ect. I physically and behaviorally left the church but there were strong psychological holds and taboos that kept me from receiving the Gospel message for about 15 years. TABOO one. The danger in associating with people or congregations outside of Adventism. These are considered of the devil, apostate, the beast, worshiping the beast, whatever. This taboo kept me from seeking a life partner with a belief in the Gospel message. This taboo kept me from joining anytype of Bible study or church for years. Even after I joined a church, it was for the wrong reasons and I was not highly receptive to the sermons or messages taught there. TABOO or Belief Two. Your prayers are not answered or heard if you are not living the truth. Despite leaving the church, I still believed many of the things I was not doing or participating in. There are volumes of EGW quotes that our prayers are not heard or answered if we are not living the "truth". The prayer life I desperately needed at the time was psychologically beyond my reach. TABOO or Belief Three. Receiving psychological help from counselors outside of the SDA organization is not an option. It took me years to seek psychological help. And this was due to the deep belief in my family that such help was not of God but of the Devil. TABOO or Belief Four. Interpretation of the Bible differently than what I was brought up with. It was close to impossible to see the Gospel message (for myself) because I was so conditioned to see everything in a legalistic manner. I went to the Bible looking for what I must do and for the legal requirements. I could not view the Old Testement wisdom in a New Covenant point of view. To part from this conditioning was wrong for me. TABOO or belief number five. Fulfilling the prophecies of EGW. There are so many places where she warned people like me that we would leave to the apostate churches. And here I was fulfilling her prophecy! This probably sounds crazy to folks who did not grow up with it, but this has such a psychological hold on struggling SDAs and former SDAs. These were the five fundamental taboos or beliefs that put me through a 15 year journey before I started to grasp the Gospel message. The actual story is mundane and insignificant. The learning in my story is the very things that a person needs to leave might be beyond their reach: understanding the Bible differently, prayer, support systems, realizing the Gospel message. Breaking down these walls was in part a very gradual change. I will write more later perhaps. Now I have a little boy to get off to school. Valerie | ||
| Max |
Valerie, ^^TABOO or belief number five. Fulfilling the prophecies of EGW. There are so many places where she warned people like me that we would leave to the apostate churches. And here I was fulfilling her prophecy! This probably sounds crazy to folks who did not grow up with it, but this has such a psycholog- ical hold on struggling SDAs and former SDAs.^^ Another analogy: Max: "Valerie, I'm going to prove to you that I'm a prophet." Val: "Oh? I'd like to see you try!" Max: "I prophesy that you are going to disbelieve me." Val: "How do you know what I'm going to do in the future?" Max: "I'm a prophet. I do many wonders. Yesterday I jumped to the moon and took a NASA space shuttle back to earth." Val: "I don't believe you." Max: "See! You fulfilled my prophecy. I told you that you were going to disbelieve me. And you did. You fulfilled my prophecy. And that proves I'm a prophet." MC | ||
| Valm |
Max, When I see what you wrote now (at this time in my life) I can laugh at it. But years ago I would have been angry at you and would have seen you as trivializing something much larger. Trust me my husband tried that type of logic may times. But some of us, when we were up to our hips boots in this way of thinking, were bonafidely anxiety ridden over this. I saw my turning away from the "truth" as the fullfillment of her prophecies. I did not or could not see that this was a built in control to keep people from walking away. Valerie | ||
| Cindy |
Chyna, when you said the word INVESTMENT, at first it brought up the memory of "investment offerings". Old-timers like me (and a few others?) may remember these. I think they've kind of died over the years, but they used to encourage members to have special "Investment Projects" through the year that would produce added income for the mission work of the church. Perhaps selling your garden produce, or crafts, etc. I agree with your post that some of these other kinds of "investments" may be just too much for anyone to try and walk away from... unless it is the powerful pull that comes from following Christ; and eventually realizing that He Alone is our True Remnant and the Truth beyond any denominational loyalty. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
Valerie, I enjoyed reading your thoughts and experiences... What type of church do your parents go to now? Is it the Hope International stuff? You may have said before; I'm too lazy to search back through anything right now... :-)) How is your brother and family? Were they, or are they, of the same belief structure as your parents? Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Valm |
Yep it is akin to the Hope International stuff. Two of my brothers are "keeping the faith" One is presently sowing wild oats and destroying his marriage in the process. Although when you speak to him, he clings to the Adventist way of thinking. Valerie |
