| Author |
Message |
Billthompson
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 10:18 am: |     |
Chyna,
They'd view such a thing as the "final shaking" of the church, a time when "if possible even the very elect shall be deceived" and draw even closer and more cultic in their paranoid end time beliefs.
The Branch Davidians (almost all former SDAs with very similar apoclyptic beliefs to what SDAs believe) grew firmer in their conviction that they were right when government troops stormed in on them. This is exactly what their "prophet" (David Koresh) had predicted.
If your effort to witness to them is so large and so organized it will simply wake the lazy ones among them, make them believe apocolyptic nonsense they were taught as children and push them further into the cultic mindset.
I remeber in 1993 yelling at the T.V. screen, "No, can't you see you are making Koresh look like a true prophet to these poor people!" The ATF and FBI played right into their paranoid belief system.
Bill Thompson |
Valm
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 10:34 am: | |
What is those testimonies were FILLED only with the message of GOD's TRUE GOSPEL?
Valerie |
Billthompson
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 11:09 am: | |
Valerie,
I am definitely in favour with sharing the true Gospel with any and all who will listen.
I just question the wisdom of having a group of 144,000 formers assault SDA churches, schools, etc. with a mass mail campaign. If it is that large and that organized leadership will address it, warn people to throw these mailers out without reading it saying it is obviously the "work of satan" and "sign of the end times", etc. They feel the persecution of the last days is coming down on them and former members of their own ranks are leading the charge.
I find it better (I have been at this over 20 years) to make friends, one on one, if possible, then keep the conversation focused on the Gospel alone when they want to talk about beliefs.
Bill Thompson |
Violet
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 11:14 am: | |
When the group I was with started a new congregation in the other side of town the main church in the city got very upset. Said we only took the rich ones (yea right) and we were zealots because we had one revelation seminar after another, never having any down time. Major evangalist every year ect ect. One night in prayer meeting our "pastor" (former lay person who put a lot of money into it) quoted Ellen White to the effect that in the end time the true chrisians would be called fanatics, he said something to the effect of isn't it great to be called fantical? He is a prime example of what you are talking about. I have lived that mentality in a "pastor". It gets out of control and all reason is thrown out. He went so far as to say one day in his sermon if you are against me you are against God. My husband and I were the ones he thought were stumbling blocks because we were insisting on financial records to the congregation before we borrowed 1 million dollars to build a building. Which we knew they could not afford. But our "pastor" is bound and determined to get his empire built. I just feel sorry for the OFTA who invest money in that revolving fund and this congregation cannot make the payment on this building. |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 12:31 pm: | |
Friend Bill,
^^I remeber in 1993 yelling at the T.V. screen,
"No, can't you see you are making Koresh look
like a true prophet to these poor people!" The
ATF and FBI played right into their paranoid
belief system.^^
I've often thought about the parallels between
the Branch Dividian apocalypse and the EGW
apocalypse in the closing chapters of GREAT
CONTROVERSY.
Makes my skin crawl like Hannibal the
Cannibal. Eeeeeeeeh! |
Cindy
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 1:35 pm: | |
I'm pretty sure thers's an EGW quote to reinforce the belief that persecution to the "remnant church" will be carried out by former members who once stood for the "truth" and have now left the "fold" to join the ranks of the persecuting "Sunday keepers"... Maybe it's already been posted?
I think you're right Billthompson...:-)) Our witness must remain on the glorious good news of the Gospel! I think there is great benefit in one or two friendly contacts at a time! Our All-Sufficiency in Christ!!... aways being the main thing!
Grace always,
Cindy |
Lori
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 3:43 pm: | |
Bill, I agree that a "mass" movement from Former Adventist would create an equal and opposite reaction from the Adventist.
When I made the statement about 144,000 formers taking a stand against Adventism, I didn't mean collectively, but rather individually.
And, even at that the contacts are going to have to be subtle. A "frontal" attack only throws a Adventist head first into the "End Time Events"--this is the copy of E.W. that I find laying out on my parents coffee table the most frequently since I have left their beliefs! The Great Controversy runs a close second.
Lydells comments are what I had in mind. The subtly that will cause them to search for answers on their own. They have to become teachable before they can learn. One scripture that been prevalent to me lately is: "when you diligently seek, then you will find". As formers we have to resist that urge to "diligently GIVE it". I know that I have been guilty of the thought process of: if I diligently present this truth in the right manner, in the right order, they will see it as truth.
The only way out of Adventism is to search your way out. And the idea to search has got to come from the individual. Our job as Former Adventists is to plant the seed of doubt that will cause them to search the scriptures for answers. Someone else may nurture that seed and see it sprout, but we can plant the seed. It's small and it's subtle, but given the right conditions it can grow into something big!!!!
In my own "exodus", I can recognize the seeds that were planted. They were tiny seeds, but they grew. Amazingly all of them were from non-Adventist wanting to understand what I believed.
All of these were from different individuals:
1. "You keep the Jewish Sabbath"!
2. "But that's works"--I had just
explained the importance of "keeping"
the 7th day.
3. "As long as you feel like the
Sabbath is so important then you need
to keep it" - again trying to convince
someone about 7th day "keeping"
4. "Every day is the same to me"--you
guessed it another conversation about the
7th day!
These were the seeds that were planted in my mind-the one that bounced around the most was "You keep the Jewish Sabbath"! I was baffled by that one---I had never, ever considered it a "Jewish" Sabbath. But when I came upon that issue in scripture that little seed made it easier to accept!
These were my seeds, the fertilizer and the water for them came along two years later!! The issue of Michael the archangel and whether the war between Michael and the dragon was a past or future event. That was the question that changed my spiritual life forever. After that the seeds were water and fertilized frequently.
We don't need to organize a "mass" presentation. We need to individually plant tiny seeds of doubt that will make them look for the truth for themselves! We need to motivate them to build a relationship with Christ through studying the Bible. |
Max
| | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 4:17 pm: | |
Oh, I don't know. Dale Ratzlaff's mass frontal
assault on the Worldwide Chruch of God
Sabbath heresy caused approximately half of
their members to reject it (if memory serves).
And the Reformation constituted a pretty
massive assault on the false RCC doctrines,
resulting in more than half of the Chrisian
church in northern and western Europe to split
off from Rome.
I think the answer here lies in the sovereignty
of God. If He wants a mass assault, He'll
arrange it. Maybe even the stones will cry out.
Who knows? And if He wants little one-on-one
transactions to occur, that will happen too. We
have absolutely zero control over the situation.
All we can do is to humble ourselves before
God and beg to be "let in on" His plans.
That's what I believe, anyway.
MC |
Lori
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 12:15 pm: | |
Max, I agree! Anything that is done under divine mandate and executed with divine viewpoint WILL succeed!!! |
Andrew_adams
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 2:14 pm: | |
Dear Lori and others that have gone through this kind of experience. Being a man might be a little different, and may be not. I started working with a evangelist in 1992, we hit it off, he needed some help and I wanted to do what I could to finish the Lordís work. I started out slow at first, I just did the PA work. As time went on I did more and more. This Pastor did about five meetings a year. He ran one tent effort a year and that was a lot of work. At the end, and I will tell you what THE END means later, I was supervising the tent from start to finish. Not bragging but, I put up the tent, installed the electrical, erect the platform, Did the PA for all the meetings, five nights a week and after three weeks we had two meetings on Sabbath, kept track of the daily operations of the tent, and supervised the take-down, transportation, and put-away at the Conference Office. Meetings in a hall or church were a little different, but still a lot of work. I am not complaining, I thought I was doing the Lordís work. Then one day I had a question, I ask the Pastor about this; AMALGAMATION, as stated by EGW. His answer was one that I would hear from all of about 20 SDA Pastors over the next few years. His answer; I WILL STUDY THAT AND GET BACK TO YOU. Well after four years not one of these Pastors came back with an answer. So the Evangelist said, and I quote ìI will study this and get back with you. To make a long story short, after a year and some months, I ask for the third time the same question and I said you have had enough time to study this so give me an answer. He said that some statements made by EGW are hard to understand and that he wouldnít talk about this with me or anyone. After a few contacts like this, he said he would not discuss EGW with me at all. I said after all that we have been through together, you will not talk to me about the Bible and EGW, his answer, NO, I will not. So I said I cannot work with you any more. Now the only pay that I received was for meeting time. I started at $6.00 an hour and the meetings ran about 1 ‡ hours, pre and post time came to about 3 hours. After two years he raised it to $9.00 per hour, also I was paid for supervising the tent up and down. All the rest of the work including the maintenance of the equipment I did for the Lordís work. He still talks me into doing small things now and then, but I try to stay as far away from him as possible. I also listened to what he was saying and ask more questions with out answers.
There is a lot more to this story but I just canít work with a Pastor thatís not telling the truth. So this is the END, I don't work with him any more.
Lori hang in there, God loves you that is why He brought you out into the truth, He loves you and so do we.
AA |
Denisegilmore
| | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 3:47 pm: | |
Hello Andrew,
Just wanted to say that I'm glad you are posting on this forum. :)
Your experiences are helping many people out there, myself included. Thank you.
Grace and Peace to you,
DtB (Denise the Berean), your sister in Christ |
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