| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Resolved: That the gospel is alive, active, energetic, creative, robust, vigorous, fertile, vital, productive, powerful, mighty, courageous, persevering, relentless, immutable, gutsy, bold, daring, fearless, authoritative, authorizing, healing, empowering, resourceful, enabling, revolutionizing, life-converting, life-changing, life-transforming, unifying . . . . Iíll start: Luke 9:6 The gospel heals you. Colossians 1:6 The gospel bears fruit. Corinthians 1:17 The gospel empowers you beyond human wisdom. 1 Corinthians 4:15 The gospel enables you to become a spiritual parent to other believers. Ephesians 3:6 The gospel unifies you together with all believers. Philippians 1:27 The gospel is powerful enough to produce worthy conduct. 1 Peter 4:17 The gospel transforms your life by enabling you to obey God. 1 Peter 4:6 The gospel changes your life so that you can "live according to God." Romans 15:14-16 The gospel teaches you how to instruct other believers. Opposing views welcome -- just provide supporting Scripture please. | ||
| Max |
THE GOSPEL MEANS WAR! When the proposition has been put forward that the gospel is all-sufficient, some have objected, saying, ìYes, but....î Example: Person One: ìThe gospel is all-sufficient.î Person Two: ìYes, but.....î Wrong! If so, then whatís right? ìTHEREFOREî is right! The gospel is all-sufficient.... ... THEREFORE PUT ON the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 STAND FIRM then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, TAKE UP the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 TAKE the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And PRAY in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, BE ALERT and always KEEP ON PRAYING for all the saints. 19 PRAY also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. --Paul, Ephesians 6.13-20 There is nothing anemic or namby-pamby about the gospel. This, my dear friends, is nothing short of WAR! 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. --Paul, Ephesians 6: Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
The gospel is all we need, THEREFORE .... ^^Let us not be like others, who are asleep, but LET US BE ALERT and SELF- CONTROLLED. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, LET US BE SELF-CONTROLLED, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10 He DIED for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may LIVE TOGETHER WITH HIM. [This is very similar to having "Christ IN YOU the hope of glory"] 11 Therefore ENCOURAGE one another and BUILD each other up, just as in fact you are doing.^^ For we are "a new creation. The old has passed away. The new has come." And we are being "transformed" from "glory to glory"! Praise God! Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Full of the living, vigorous gospel, Apollos GREATLY HELPS new believers! 27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to those who BY GRACE HAD BELIEVED. 28 For he VIGOROUSLY REFUTED the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. --Luke, Acts 18 Behold what a life CHANGED and TRANS- FORMED by the gospel can do! Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
The gospel is all-sufficient, itís all we need . . . . . . . "THEREFORE, if anyone is in Christ, he is A NEW CREATION; the old has gone, THE NEW HAS COME!" --Paul, 2 Corinthians 5:17 | ||
| Max |
The gospel is all-sufficient, itís all we need . . . .. . . . THEREFORE, ìNeither circumcision [or Sabbath-keeping] nor uncircumcision [or keeping all days alike] means anything; what counts is a NEW CREATION.î --Paul, Galatians 15 | ||
| Max |
The gospel is all-sufficient, itís all we need . . . . . . . . THEREFORE, ìwe are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.î --Paul, Ephesians 2:10 | ||
| Cindy |
Dear Max, Hi!! Are you the one who gave "notice" of a slow-down on posting here on FAF?! :)) Honestly, when I read that "notice" of yours a few days ago, I was worried that you had a brain tumor or some illness that was forcing you to lay off the computer... :-)) Glad to see you here, seemingly strong and healthy! I especially like the way you posted above: "THE GOSPEL IS ALL-SUFFICIENT!" "THEREFORE...." This evening I attended church and heard a wonderful sermon blending Phillipians 3 and Romans 12. ""But whatever was to my profit I now consider LOSS for the sake of CHRIST. What is more, I consider EVERYTHING a loss compared to the SURPASSING GREATNESS OF KNOWING CHRIST JESUS MY LORD, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them RUBBISH, that I may GAIN Christ and be found IN HIM, not having a righteousness of my OWN that comes from the law, but that which is THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST--the righteousness that comes FROM GOD and is BY FAITH. I want to KNOW CHRIST and the Power of His resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in His sufferings, becoming like Him in His death, and so, somehow to attain to the resurrection from the dead..."" (Phillipians 3) And with this "surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus", this gaining of Christ and being found IN HIM, His righteousness alone!, we can live as accepted and beloved children of the KING! --with any of our instructions, or even the reason and motivation, for holy living ALWAYS beginning with the basic grace-oriented mindset of "THEREFORE"... ""THEREFORE, I urge you, brothers, IN VIEW OF GOD'S MERCY, to offer your bodies as LIVING sacrifices to GOD--THIS IS YOUR SPIRITUAL ACT OF WORSHIP. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind..."" (Romans 12) Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
The gospel is all-sufficient, itís all we need . . . . . . . THEREFORE, ìYou were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to PUT OFF YOUR OLD FORMER WAY OF LIFE, to put off YOUR OLD SELF, which is being corrupted by deceitful desires; 23 TO BE MADE NEW in the attitude of your minds; 24 and TO PUT ON THE NEW SELF created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore each of you must PUT OFF FALSEHOOD and SPEAK TRUTHFULLY to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. --Paul, Ephesians 4:22-25 | ||
| Max |
The gospel is all-sufficient, itís all we need . . . . . . . . ^^Put to death, THEREFORE, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 you USED to walk in these ways, in the life you ONCE LIVED. 8 But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have TAKEN OFF YOUR OLD SELF with its practices and have PUT ON THE NEW SELF, which is being RENEWED in knowledge in the IMAGE of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised [SDA] or uncircumcised [non-SDA], barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.^^ --Paul, Colossians 3:5-11 | ||
| Max |
Hi, Cindy, The real reason why I posted "gives notice" was that I was no longer going to engage in argumentation. I am going to concentrate on a positive presentation of pure gospel, pure grace, pure Christ Jesus and what that means for all who believe with a "heart faith." And my new approach is to be bottom-lined with Scripture alone as primary source material. I'll still quote Bonhoeffer, Luther, Barth and others, but I recognize that they are only secondary sources. Scripture alone, Scripture alone! Thanks for chiming in with the very harmonious post above. May the Son God rise upon you every morning, Max, Still of the Cross | ||
| Valm |
Yes, the Gospel is ROBUST. And this was a fine post to start my day. I have taken Ratzlaff's challenge in his magazine to read Galatians for a month. I am reading a chapter a night first in my NIV and for fun I am reading it also in Eugene Peterson's The Message. I am going to write as much as I can until it is time to get my self off to church. This is Petersen's portion on Galatians 5 :13 "Live freely, animated and motivated by God's Spirit. Then you won't feed the compulsions of selfishness. For there is a root of sinful self-interest in us that is at odds with a free spirit, just as the free spirit is incompatible with selfishness. These two ways of life are antithetical, so that you cannot live at times one way and at times another way according to how you feel on any given day. why don't you choose to be led by the spirit and so escape the erratic compulsions of a law dominated existence?" At verse 19 I love his depiction of sinful behavior. It talks in the langauge of 2001. And this is what I wish God's Holy Spirit to protect myself and my family from. "It is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get you own way all of the time: repetitive, loveless, cheap sex, a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cuthtroat competition; all-consuming-yet never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on." This is his interpretation/translation of the fruits of the Spirit found at verse 22: (And this is what I am thankful that his Holy Spirit can do for all of us) "But what happens when we live God's way? He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way that fruit appears in an orchard. Things like affection for others, exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingnes to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart, and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our way in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely. Legalism is helpless in bringing this about; it only gets in the way. Among those who belong to Christ, everything connected with getting our own way and mindlessly responding to what everyone else calls necessities is killed off for good--crucified. Since this it the kind of life we have chosen, the life of the Spirit, let us make sure that we do not just hold it as an idea in our heads or a sentiment in our hearts, but work out its implications in every detail of our lives. This means we will not compare ourselves with each other as if one of us were better and another worse. We have far more interesting things to do with our lives. Each of us is an original." Does anyone wish more of this translation? If so I would be happy to post exciting exerts from chapter six. I am not suggesting that this translation be used as a primary source, I am finding however this translation is highly compatible with other translations. For myself it generates a higher level of enthusiasm and passion for what these scriptures are trying to say. And I do FEEL QUITE ROBUST this morning thanks to Max's post and last nights worship. All honor and glory given to God on this matter. Valerie | ||
| Cindy |
Thanks, Valerie, for posting the above... a lot to think about and digest in just those few verses! I've always enjoyed Eugene Peterson's comments. I have his 'daily reflection' book, garnered from various writings of his, entitled "Living The Message". I have been blessed by it for a number of years... Now you have inspired me to get out "The Message" to read and ponder again! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Patti |
Max, You remind me of a zealous SDA apologist that I collided with J on an SDA forum. He constantly accused me of having a "wimpy" God. In fact, he re-worked the words of a song which he posted on the forum and proclaimed it our (the Gospel touters') theme song. It started, "Our God is a wimpy God," and it went downhill from there. I get the same feeling from you. You are always accusing those who really trust in the merits of Christ alone, those who proclaim that the Gospel is all about Jesus Christ, of touting "cheap" grace, and now, of having an "anemic" gospel. Let's take a look at "cheap" grace. You, relying on the writings of your teacher, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, claim that grace is "cheap" if it does not change our lives. In other words, grace by itself (God's infinite mercy to undeserving, sinful humanity; His forgiveness and acceptance of us in Jesus Christ) is not enough to be excited about. You would like to add something to it: our works, our characters, our "agape." Several thoughts occur to me: 1. It seems like, to me, that if grace alone is truly sufficient for our complete salvation, that it would be rather costly (priceless even) and powerful. 2. If we add anything of our own works to the perfect work of Jesus Christ that saves us completely (i.e. the grace of God), we cheapen it. 3. If we maintain that human flesh cannot even apprehend, let alone contain the grace of God, then are we not exalting (acknowledging its infinite costliness) the grace of God above our own sinful flesh? As for your "anemic" gospel idea, please re-read Romans 1:16, 17. The Gospel is a message of salvation, by a righteousness from God that we can only apprehend--that is, understand--by faith alone. How can you speak of an "anemic" gospel? The very expression is as disgusting in my ears as was my dear SDA adversary's claim that we believed in a "wimpy" God (because of our claim that the Gospel is a purely forensic message--a message of God "crediting" Christ's righteousness to us instead of actually infusing us with His holiness). Again, several questions arise: 1. We claim that the Gospel alone--that is the doing and dying of Jesus Christ alone--is sufficient for our full salvation. And you call that anemic???? An anemic gospel would be one in which we have to help God get us to heaven. The power of the Gospel is that it is based on the obedience of Jesus Christ alone and not on anything inside of us. 2. If the gospel is about US, then it is truly anemic, because nothing good dwells in this body of death. If it is all about HIM, all about HIS life, His death, His resurrection, then it is a Gospel full of power that has no bounds. The Gospel is all about Jesus Christ. It is the obedience of One Man that is credited to those who believe in Him. It is righteousness from God that is by faith from first to last. So you tell me: Is the work that Jesus Christ accomplished for all humanity who trust in Him anemic or robust? May the Holy Spirit lead us daily into a renewed conviction of the all-sufficiency of the Lamb of God, to Whom be all honor and glory forever. | ||
| Valm |
At the slightest of suggestion from Cindy, I return with excerpts of Peterson's THE MESSAGE modern translation of the New Testement. And the selection is from that "Mother of Grace Epistle," Galatians, chapter 6. "Live creatively, friends. If someone falls into sin, forgivingly restore him, saving your critical comments for yourself. You might be needing forgiveness before the days out. Stoop down and reach out to those who are oppressed. Share their burdens, and so complete Christ's law. If you thnk you are too good for that, you are badly deceived. Make a careful exploration of who you are and the work you have been given, and then sink yourself into that. Don't be impressed with yourself. Don't compare yourself with others. Each of you must take responsibility for doing the creative best you can with your own life...... Don't be misled: No one makes a fool of God. What a person plants, he will harvest. The person who plants selfishness, ignoring the needs of others-- ignoring God!--harvsts a crop of weeds. All he'll have to show for his life is weeds? But the one who plants in response to God, letting God's Spirit do the growth work in him, harvests a crop of real life, eternal life. So let's not allow ourselves to get fatigued dong good. At the right time we will harvest a good crop if we don't give up, or quit. Right now, therefore, every time we get the chance, let us work for the benefit of all, starting with the people closest to us in the community of faith.. . . For my part, I am going to boast about nothing but the Cross of our Master, Jesus Christ. Because of that Cross, I have been crucified in relation to the world, set free from the stifling atmosphere of pleasing others and fitting into the ltittle patterns that they dictate. Can't you see the central issue in all this? It is not what you and I do--submit to circumcision, reject circumcision. It is what God is doing, and he is creating something totally new, a free life! All who walk by this standard are the true Israel of God-- his chosen people. Peace and mercy on them!......... May what our Master Jesus Christ gives freely be deeply and personally yours, my friends. Oh, yes!" I have hope that all of you have enjoyed this passage as much as I have. I am joyful for everything that God has done for me and this Gospel message. This mother of grace epistle lends a great perspective on how our living fit into the receiving of the Gospel message. If anyone would like quotes from other texts I would be happy to share them. I find as I type them they become more of a part of me. Valerie | ||
| Cindy |
Dear Patti, You must know by now that my passion resides in the message of the CROSS; so I respectfully ask you to consider and read thoughtfully what Max has posted above... Didn't He just say repeatedly that "THE GOSPEL IS ALL SUFFICIENT, IT'S ALL WE NEED"!? I think he is saying the exact opposite of the Gospel being anemic! The "robust" POWER is IN this "foolish" message of Christ Crucified for us! All Power and Wisdom flows from the Cross! The message of the GOSPEL is definitely about JESUS' COMPLETED WORK... and yet it is definitely FOR US! Christ Alone-Grace alone-is SUFFICIENT for everything we need! All I see posted above is this ASSURANCE... Because of this declaration of FINISHED PERFECTION OF CHRIST (and so OUR PERFECTION BECAUSE WE ARE IN HIM!) we have the numerous exhortations of "therefore"... We ARE, absolutely, no doubt about it! SAVED and IN HIS KINGDOM NOW!!... "THEREFORE".... lets LIVE IN THAT GRACE, IN THAT CELBRATING COMMUNITY THAT IS GRATEFUL FOR ALL THAT CHRIST ALONE HAS ACCOMPLISHED ONCE AND FOR ALL FOR US. This is a response of gratitude...and our gift of eternal life is not taken away if we don't respond the right way... When we believe in JESUS, His Holy Spirit will stay with us, hounding us to focus on Christ, not ourselves--the only way at all we can even grow spiritually. Even this "growth" is gradual but a sure thing if we focus on CHRIST! And OF COURSE! we have ABSOLUTELY ALL THE GROWTH NECESSARY FOR SALVAION FINISHED ONCE AND FOR ALL AT THE CROSS! The wrath of God has fallen on Christ, we have "escaped" by trusting in HIS WORK alone! We are RECONCILED and have ACCESS into our HOLY GOD'S PRESENCE... where we can REST in this SECURITY. What great news to live by each day! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Patti, I just stopped by to see if you answered my question. Since it has dropped to last week, I thought that I'd re-post it in case you missed it. It is so hard to catch everything. I really do appreciate all the other answers and comments you have made. <<I guess that I need to ask a question that needs either a simple "yes" or simple "no" answer. You said: "Salvation by: Christ's righteousness alone" Do you EVER recall me saying ANYTHING different?? YES_______ NO________ I really would like a ONE WORD post as an answer. IBC>> | ||
| Patti |
Maryann, I have not accused you of anything. That is all that needs to be said. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Cindy |
Thanks, Valerie...I know what you mean about typing things out... I moved here from the East coast (between Philadelphia and Washington D.C.) An interesting area to live; and I miss family and friends there much. I'm slowly adjusting to life here now, though...and when the Sun is out, you can't beat the breathtaking beauty of Mt. Hood! I guess you can see Rainier... I love that term "Mother of Grace Epistle"! :-)) As that text says, may we ALL never boast except in the Cross of Christ!! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Patti |
Cindy, I consider my hand well slapped. However, I maintain that the Gospel is all about Jesus Christ and not about us. If I am ostracized because I hold firmly to that belief, than so be it. The Gospel is not, is NEVER anemic. God's grace is not, is NEVER, "cheap" or "bogus." I will always resent those who refer to it as such. Some things cannot be compromised or bargained away. Either the Gospel is the righteousness of the One by which we are declared righteous and find acceptance with God, or it has elements of human effort, which contaminates it thoroughly. I feel great sadness at the turn this forum is taking. It seems now that everyone here is in unity on this matter. I still maintain that we cannot focus on the perfection of the Lamb alone and keep one eye focused upon ourselves. His grace is sufficient. And we will always be dependent upon His totally forgiveness. Always. I suppose I have worn out my welcome. So I will seek new pastures. May God never remove His mercy from me, I, the chief of sinners. Patti |
