| Author | Message | ||
| Violet |
My husband is very supportive. In fact he has questioned longer than I have, but he knew since I was raised an Adventist it might take me a little longer. He has been very patient. We do not have a new church yet. We thought about visiting several Bible churches. We don't want to go to denominations with strong views. But we are always open. Yes, I am in the 30ish group, my husband is in the 40ish. We live in Tulsa, Ok right in the middle of the states. Better known as the buckle of the Bible belt. Less than 3 miles from Oral Roberts University ect. I am spending alot of time reading books. I just had Dale Ratzlaff send me 4 books, so that will keep me busy for a while. I am also fostering a houseful, 4 puppies (8 weeks) and a mother of Bichon Frise's. I am so excited about meeting you guys! Thank you for the complement on my name, actually it was my mother's. When I first signed up I was afraid to give my real name as a screen name. But I love it so I think I will just keep it. | ||
| Chyna |
puppies! it's too bad you live so far from southern California :), i would like to come over and play with your puppies. Chyna isn't my name either :). it took me awhile to find a new church also, but once I started going I was like "Why didn't I start going earlier?" it really helped me to know that I was in God's hands throughout the entire matter. in Him, Chyna | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Violet, I may be in Tulsa next July. If I am, I'll look you up if you want. My daughter was there in '99 as one of 20, 12 year olds that earned a spot out of over 2,000 girls in a national gymnastic olympic training camp called TOPS:-)) All expenses paid;-) Can you tell I'm a bit proud of that? Maryann | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Val, You really want me to "go off" on what "word faith" is!?;-) The other day when you asked what "UPC" was I wound up like a seven day clock!;-)) They share a lot of similarities with the UPC. The biggest things that I see as problems are the humanizing of God, using the KJ only and rotton hermeneutics as a means of that and "us" being the vessels that control God. We can force God to do many things "IF" we have the "right" kind of faith. In other words, if we claim a promise for health or wealth, God HAS to "put out" and if He doesn't, we are at fault because we were not asking right or our faith was wobbling! Grrrrrr Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin (rhema seminary founder), Paul and Jan Crouch (TBN) and a host of others are whirl winding the world with this self centered, self serving message! This "word faith" was the thing that filled the void that SDAism left in my Mom. When she lost the "word faith" the void was filled right back up with SDAism! This should be a lesson to all that when someone wants to leave what ever they are involved in, someone should be there to help filter what goes back in the void. Remember when Ross Perrot was grass rooting for Prez? And was talking about the mistake of letting Mexico take a lot of our jobs, manufacturing etc., and talked about that "sucking sound" going south? We really need to watch that void that 80+ books leaves when people leave SDAism so that a giant "sucking sound" is NOT the "cults" re-infesting!!!!! Some deny the Trinity and others claim there is 9 of them!! And it deteriates from there!:-(( Christianity in Crisis is a great book. If you want one, I can get one to you. So e-write me if you want one. It's really good to know what else is out there!!!!!! Well, I didn't froth up on that one did I?;-)) IBC | ||
| Cindy |
Maryann, Hi! :-))I got your e-mail, but haven't taken the time to respond--as you can tell! But thanks! I liked what you said above about the "void that 80+ books" can leave! :-)) And the "sucking sound" it can have! :-)) Just like that house "swept CLEAN and in GOOD ORDER" that Jesus talked about! Self-motivated "morality" is not enough. An only GOD is big enough to fill that "void"... Our "houses"--our minds, our thoughts--need to be FILLED with CHRIST alone...in every nook and cranny; or some other strange "demons", different from the ones we've left, will love to come and inhabit it! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Valm |
Maryann, That is a profound analogy the "void of 80 plus books" and the "sucking sound". "Word faith" sounds familiar to the "prosperity gospel" line of thinking. (God is kinda a short order cook for our whims and fancies) And faith becomes another work that we just are not doing hard enough or right enough. The thing missing here is the "not my will but they will be done." Thank you Maryann for another definition. Valerie | ||
| Violet |
I have never heard this side of it about the word faith. I had better watch out a Rhema is just about 5 miles to the east of me. One thing about them they put on a heck of a Christmas Light display. | ||
| Lori |
I just thought I'd add my experience of the "when, how and where" of Adventism. I was born into Adventism. My great-grandmother joined the Adventist church in the late 1920's. All of her sons family became Adventist and that's how it filtered down to me. During my high school years I began to shun the writings of Ellen White. We were required to memorize large sections of her writings for Bible class! THIS was the beginnings of my release from Adventism--but it was a long road. I fell in love and married a Non-Adventist. This event was a real eye-opener to the exclusiveness of the Adventist. I had attended the same church for 21 years, but on the day of my marriage I was not allowed to be married in that church, nor was I allowed to be married by my pastor. As my nonSDA husband was not from there, we were married in a Baptist church by a minister that neither one of us knew. My husband was treated like an unbeliever instead of a Christian. He only attended church with me a handful of times when we moved to a new city. Only long enough for me to become accustom to the new church and then I had to go alone. It was a 35 mile drive one way to get there! But I went-- Years passed, we moved closer to MY church and I became very active--I think I held just about every position except Treasurer, I refused that one when it was offered. I was as Adventist as Adventist can get, except I had a "heathenistic" husband. My husband was very tolerant of my religion, he was never judgemental, never critical. When I proposed a religious topic, he made very little comment because all comments became a fight. (You know how argumentative Adventist can get-I had learned it well!!) In 1996, we made yet another move, this time it was a little harder to adjust to a new church. I had two small children and no husband to attend church with me. I elected not to even attempt establishing myself in a new church we were only going to live here for a year. --In retrospect God gave me a full year without the Adventist interpretation of scripture. I had a the conflict series, but I never read them because I just couldn't swallow Ellen White. The year without church turned out to be the best year of my spiritual life. I was a little confused at how being away from the remnant churches doctrines had created a better spiritual life. Also during this year, I had not "kept" the Sabbath, so it wasn't like I was being blessed for my obedience! It didn't make a whole lot of sense, but I figured that it was because I had been attempting a daily Bible time since I wasn't in church. I had not been doing this. I hadn't ever really felt the need to read the Bible. I knew the doctrines of SDA, I knew enough!!! We moved again--my oldest child was starting first grade and I was moving near my Adventist parents. I had enrolled my son in the Adventist school with out any protest from my husband. I thought for sure this was God's plan to make me a better Adventist. After all I would have my parents near by to help me. I was wrong--my life fell apart when we moved. I won't go into all the details because it is a long story. My son attended the SDA school for three days--I pulled him out and placed him in a Christian school. I met the most wonderful people there. I was amazed at how they truly loved the Lord!!! I knew I had never experienced that before and I didn't understand how they could have that-they were deceived, how could they have a better relationship than I? I was a member of the remnant church. God used a great number of people in my "unveiling". More often than not I always assumed that with every "happening" He was turning me back to Adventism but it always unfolded with me turning away from it. In October of 1999, I made my first official statement against Adventism. It briefly destroyed my close relationship with my Mother. It has taken over a year to get things back to normal with my parents, however, the solution was to not talk about religion. My rejection of Adventism has made them grasp Ellen White with both hands. It saddens me greatly, but their decision it not within my control. God has given me something that is priceless. The assurance that I have in Him is indescribable. The fears that I lived with on a daily basis as an Adventist have been replaced with a peaceful calmess that I've never known before. I have two boys that I am so thankful will not have to find there way out of the delusions that I grew up with. I still wonder why God selected me to be the one that uncovered the lies of Adventist. One day I will know-- Right now, I am continuing to study His word daily-searching for more and more truth that will help me live a life in perfect happiness in Him. Lori | ||
| Violet |
Oh, Lori you are so much stronger than I am and the Lord knows it. My mother and I were very close and she was a devout Adventist. She died 3 years ago. I could of never of taken the stand I did if she would of been alive. The Lord can take tradgedies and turn them around to bless you. We had problems with our kids in SDA schools. They were willing to sacrifice our kids education to keep an incompetent teacher in the classroom, because she "loved Jesus". We also pulled them out 2 years ago and they have blossemed in public school. (We have a great public school system in the area I live in) This was also a blessing, because it would of been even harder to pull away from the church if all of their friends had of been adventist. | ||
| Lori |
Violet, I have to tell you that when I read your post, I was thinking that you were stronger than I was!!! --I have not asked to have my name removed from church membership, yet. I want to, but I just haven't been able to cross that bridge. I really don't want the attention that it is going to draw. My dad works for the church and I have postponed having my name removed because it was at the church they attended. I haven't wanted to put them in the position to explain "why" to everyone, I don't want to embarrass them or hurt them anymore than they already are. I was really rather surprised that they took it so hard. You see, my dad was a Baptist until I was 10 years old--so I really thought that he would have realized that other people are Christians and just has saved as they are. (In reality my Dad has been more resistant than my Mom.) But since my Dad recently changed positions and has relocated, I don't have that excuse anymore. But I still don't want the attention that it is going to create!! (I'm a chicken!) I would be very interested to know what response you have received from the church, pastor, etc...so I will know what to expect. | ||
| Violet |
Our "pastor" lay person who put a lot of money into the church turned pastor, has not even acknowledged it at all. Not one word. Although the conference secretary has called and wants to talk with me. He is an older gentleman, sort of fatherly to me was my mom's and grandmother's pastor before going to the conference. My best freind and I have not gone into any details yet, we are both too teary eyed to talk about it yet. I have heard through the grapevine that we were the talk of the elders meeting at the church across town where I went before helping to start this new one 3 years ago. I grew up in that church from the time I was 18 months old. And have many dear friends for there. I am sure they are concerned that I am lost, little do they know. My husband, who is a very good judge of people, doesn't think we will hear from our church. I don't think they want to hear what we have found. They might have to readjust their thinking. Very hard to do after all these years. I understand not wanting to make a deal at the church where your parents are. People can sometimes be so cruel. The important thing is that you know your name is on the list that Jesus will call when He comes for us. All other lists are just ink to paper God Bless | ||
| Valm |
Lori and Violet, I have enjoyed your wonderful exchange of words. I am too tired to contribute but wanted to say thank you. Valerie | ||
| Cindy |
Yes, thank-you Lori and Violet...:-)) As you said, Violet: "The important thing is that you know your name is on the list that Jesus will call when He comes for us. All other lists are just ink to paper." Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Lori |
When you leave the church, you have to be prepared to also leave everyone there behind you. This is not 'your' choice but rather theirs. As an Adventist I used to comfort myself with the verses "we are a peculiar people" (I was peculiar alright!)and "you will be persecuted for righteousness sake" (I was persecuted as an Adventist, but as I began to "see the light" I realized that the persecution I was receiving was self-induced! not quite what that scripture was refering to) Since leaving the church, I don't know if I can say that what I have received is persecution-but I have been alienated, "held at arms length", ignored, judged and probably maligned by those who were "formerly fond of me". --It hurts (and yes, you can be bitter about it-if you choose to, but what's the point, that only hurts you) what really "pains" me is to know that in rejecting what I'm sharing with them they are also rejecting the fabulous relationship with Christ that they could have. And you are so right, Valerie, "The important thing is that you know your name is on the list that Jesus will call when He comes for us. All other lists are just ink to paper". | ||
| Lori |
Valerie, you said that "they don't want to know what we have found". That's 100% correct. They don't want to know, especially the leaders in the church because if "this" was known and exposed to the congregation (and accepted) it would destroy the organization of SDA. My husband told me about a recent study done on some species of monkeys (I wish I could remember which one). Anyway, they were experimenting to see how many of these monkeys had to learn a specific task (for instance, washing something in the salt water to make it more palatable before they ate it) in order for it to be known by all the monkeys. They found in their study that it did not matter how many of monkeys there were-when 144,000 monkeys learned a task then BOOM! -it was spread to all the monkeys! What do you think? During the tribulation 144,000 people will spread the gospel to all the world. Everyone will know the truth and everyone will decide-positive or negative. Are there 144,000 former Adventists that have exposed the errors of the church? If there are or when there are then we can know that every Adventist has heard the lies and either rejected truth or accepted it? Isn't it interesting that no matter how many there are-it only takes 144,000 to spread it around to everybody? Well---I have just heard the message, right here, right now--(written from my own thoughts!) that I need to "write a letter to the church" and make it known for what reasons I choose not to fellowship there anymore. Lori | ||
| Chyna |
hurray Lori :), it was truly a work of God to see you write out your own pep talk/battle cry of a former adventist. there *has* to be at least 144,000. think of what an awesome testimony it would be to collect 144,000 experiences of leaving Adventism ... love, Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
hurray Lori :), it was truly a work of God to see you write out your own pep talk/battle cry of a former adventist. there *has* to be at least 144,000. think of what an awesome testimony it would be to collect 144,000 experiences of leaving Adventism ... love, Chyna | ||
| Lydell |
Alright Lori! I'm sure all here would agree that we are praying with you to have the right words to say. Who knows, that little piece of paper you write could be the thing that stirs someone else to do some thinking themselves. When someone has even a tiny opening in their mind, even an overheard negative comment can be used to move them toward truth. I have to believe that somewhere down the line we are going to hear from a former SDA who will say something like, "well, for me the exodus from the SDA church all started when I heard people making nasty comments about how Sister Lori was now doomed because she had left "the" church. That really bothered me because what I had seen in her life was someone who truly loved God. And it seemed so unfair. So that started me thinking...." Hey, you never know! So, welcome to this land of us "apostates" who are thoroughly enjoying our intimate life with a living Saviour. I'll take a growing relationship with Him over the fears and worries of Adventism in a fraction of a heartbeat! There was once a time when I used to pray that I wouldn't run into anyone from our old SDA church and have to answer their questions. Now I've reached the point of praying, "oh yeah, bring 'em on Lord!" By the way, even after you have sent your letter you can expect to continue to receive pleas for money from various SDA "ministries". I would just toss them in the trash for a long time. Now I've started using those "return postage paid" envelopes to send them EGW vs. the Bible quotes, etc. Hey, a secretary somewhere may be open! | ||
| Valm |
Lydell, That is a great way to recycle paper, returning those little envelopes with your own "gift" to the SDA ministry! Lori, You are on to something here. The 144,000 club. Hmmmmmm...... We should all ponder this. Perhaps there is a way to do it. God Bless you all out there. The last couple of days my mind an body have been fatigued from burning my candle at both ends. Pray for me. After a restful weekend perhaps the creative part of me will return. And Lori maybe we can talk about this idea more. In the mean time every oe else in cyber space, what are your ideas to Lori's brilliant idea of the 144,000 club? Lori, blessings on the letter you plan to write. Valerie | ||
| Chyna |
I think that collecting 144,000 testimonies to send out as Packets to Adventist churches/organizations/private school would be a very hard thing to ignore. or even one sentence from each 'former' Adventist. such a compulsion for current Adventists to start wondering why. |
