| Author | Message | ||
| Chyna |
Hiya, it's me, Chyna. I just watched The Practice tonight, creation of David E. Kelly. I was very hooked on the serial killer plot probably because I got addicted to the adrenaline rushes, but in this episode that aired on 2-11-01, they started to discuss Jehovah's Witnesses. brief scenario: a bomb goes off, two women injured; one woman so severely she is unconscious and needs surgery. She is JW, therefore her mother does not permit her to have a blood transfusion because "The Bible Says So." Even after the surgery, her heartbeat is still too high and her blood pressure is dangerously low because of the lack of blood in her system. Yet, the mother refuses because it is a fundamental tenet of JWism. I wonder how many Adventists would recognize themselves being portrayed. Or would they probably side with the lawyers that were trying to make the judge decide to allow the injured woman a transfusion. Or would they insist on "religious freedom" because of their fear of the Sunday Law. For the most part, I don't think OFTAs think they have much in common with Mormons, JWs, or Christian Scientologists. Yet their charismatic leaders all arose during the 1800's. Mary Edy Baker, Joseph Smith etc. etc. Awhile ago I read a very moving romance novel called, The Outsider by Penelope Williamson. It was fascinating to read about a woman who was born into something you and I would regard as a cult. They had to always wear dresses. They had very strict and rigid notions of what faith was. They accepted no outsider conversions. The woman is forced to deal with "outsiders" because of the irreverant doctor, and the wounded man who winds up collapsing on her property. Yet, she finds so much joy in her faith in God hearing the music of God all around her in Creation. But the religion she is in is very strict. One of her brothers went to an evangelist tent and "got himself saved." From then on, he was dead to their family. No one in the religion was allowed to talk to him. His parents had to regard him as dead even though he still lived with them. Eventually, her brother committed suicide. Watching "The Practice" with my friend Arianne, spurred this conversation. "Liz Fuller is Christian Scientologist." At first, I totally couldn't remember who she was. Arianne said, "Remember the girl with the bad teeth?" And I said, "Ohhhhhhhhhh." Apparently she refused all medical treatment, including Dentists! Now I know myself, and former Adventists, and current Adventists totally cringe! Bad teeth! Not going to the doctor? The whole Adventist community swoons, and yet Adventism hold similar doctrines that they feel are from the bible... I guess it's only after you get out would you be able to see the similarity. in Him, Chyna | ||
| Larimobley |
Dear Chyna, My husband and I are also avid "Practice" fans! We stayed up last night after watching to discuss how similar the JW's and the SDA's are--the way they cling to their particular "unique" beliefs. And it's only after you're out of the culture that you begin to see how strange some of your beliefs really were. I think that any religion that focuses more on its own "uniqueness" rather than on Christ is bound to fall into error sooner than later. JW's focus in on the texts regarding blood, and the SDA's on the texts regarding unclean meats. I remember SDA friends claiming they'd rather die if stranded on a desert island than eat a pig to survive! Doesn't that remind you of the JW's refusal of blood even if it means death? It all boils down to a true understanding of salvation by grace, not works, to sift through the doctrinal haze put forth by so many churches, not just the JW's and SDA's. I'm so thankful for grace! Lari | ||
| Colleentinker |
Lari, so am I! Praise God for reaching down and rescuing us!! Colleen | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Good to see you Lari, And of course you too Chyna and Colleen..I wasn't leaving you out so stop crying..hehe I just wanted to add this. The JWs sprang from the Adventists. Did anyone know that? The JWs I studied with sure didn't and I had to prove it to them with their own history. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that this way. But, since we are speaking of cults or odd/strange teachings, I can tell you that while growing up, my father was a SDA, a JW, a WWCG, and Christian Science man. Seems I followed in his steps in searching. However, I didn't join any denomination. But like my dad, I had to find the truth. But in my seeking, all that time, God knew me! Isn't that wonderful! I'm still a researcher or berean type though. And it's good to remember my dad, at his end (he was 34 years of age), stood on the Gospel or Word of God alone and gave up all those other doctrines that I witnessed him on so many occasions, calling them 'hypocrits.' Am I a proud daughter or what? :)) My dad got a lot of flack and was shunned by all peoples, and he was dying of lung cancer at the time. Still, my dad stood. Here I stand. Blessings to all, DtB, your sister in Christ Jesus | ||
| Lydell |
You know, I thank God for allowing a JW cemetery to be present on our church property. You see, our church property was formerly JW property(we cast that spirit out before we moved in!). And right where we really need there to be more parking space is this JW cemetery. My hubby and I always park next to that cemetery. Every time we came to church it would bug me that we had basically have this big hole in the middle of our property. And I would ask "Why God? Why is there a hole in the middle of our turf? You don't do anything without a reason. So why?" Well, one day when we were leaving church it just really bugged me more than usual seeing this unusuable spot surrounded with it's fence. I decided to go home and do research to see what JW's believe. Maybe there was something we could do that would annoy them and they would come and dig up their folks and take them away to their new property for burial there. Okay, so I have a mean streak in me somewhere! Darned if I didn't discover that their teachings on the state of the dead were identical to the SDA's.....and therefore my own. THAT HURT! And that was what got me going on re-examining my own beliefs. And that was the first step in seeing the truth. The first step toward understanding the glorious promise of our being with Christ NOW as well as at the moment of death. Can you imagine how moved to tears I am to know that God only got that nailed down in me 3 short weeks before my dad's death? My dad was a believer. I believe my husband has also re-examined and grasped this truth of our already being with Christ. And I believe my son has as well. I don't think my friend or her son (they left the denomination with us) have grasped that light just yet. So I keep praying over that cemetery for my friends sake. And for the sake of all the families of those loved ones. At some point they will have to come on our church property. And then we just may have an opening to talk with them. | ||
| Shereen |
I also watch the practice and love the show. I was very disturbed by the JW episode. I remember being adventist and the whole eating issue. I was told once, many years ago, that we should be more concerned with not hurting ppl than we should about what we eat. One day I was at my husbands Aunts place for the 1st time. I didn't even eat meat or eggs etc. at that time. She was serving ham in my honour. She had no idea that I was SDA. I quickly prayed for guidance and the answer was to eat and enjoy and give her the pleasure of knowing that she was a wonderful hostess and cook. I did eat and didn't even gag, which I was terrified I would do. I even took a small second when she offered it and praised her cooking. We left her house with her smiling and pleased. It could have turned out so differently. I praise God for His guidance and wisdom. If I had left the decision making up to my self, there would have been hurt feelings and embarassment all around. I tend to rely more on Gods guidance than on my own interpretation of what the bible says. I know so many can read the same passage and get different msg's. I praise God for His love letter, the Bible, but more than anything, I praise Him for His constant advice, guidance & wisdom that He so willingly bestows on me. Shereen | ||
| Max |
Lydell, What a gem of a post! Reminds me of Genesis 50:20 "You meant evil against [JWs]; but God meant it for good." Praising God for you, MC | ||
| Max |
Shereen, When I was a "Seven," when I was engaged to be married, I rented a room in the house of an older immigrant German lady and her middle-aged daughter. They invited me to Thanksgiving dinner. The first course was a German style "prawns in red sauce" served in heavy cut-crystal brandy sniffers. I was, I swear, ambivalent -- longing to touch, taste, savor; but fearing for my soul's damnation. Today, I regret to say, I didn't touch, taste and savor. Obviously crestfallen, they looked at me and said, "Ach! ist there some reason vy you don't like zee prawn?" "No," I replied, red-faced, fumbling for words, reluctant to admit that I had only old covenant reasons for avoiding this OFTA cultural taboo. To God's eternal credit, they smiled indulgently, nodded in German, and said, "Zere must be some reason." And reason there was! Inbred pharisaism! MC | ||
| Chyna |
dear friends, I have often commented to other Christians in explaining Adventism that while they look fine on paper with a few stray doctrines, that in actuality they are much more like Mormons and JW's. Hmmm, it would be interesting to compile a list of similarities. For starters: Mormon's BYU - Brigham Young U, where all mormons go. SDA's Loma Linda U - where all the good Adventists attend. I questioned my ex, "Why do Adventists have their separate school systems? There are many Christian colleges, and they admit all different kinds of Christians: Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal" He maintained that other Christians attended Adventist schools, but in truth proportionately they are overwhelmingly Adventist. Do you *know* how powerful Mormonism has gotten? I think 3 of our Senators are Mormon! anyway, Chyna | ||
| Max |
What, Chyna? No OFTA Snorters? Oops, I mean, no OFTA Senators? | ||
| Chyna |
hi, another thought: Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in the news. Their P.R. rep said that their separation had to do with Tom Cruise's continuing and deepening involvement with Christian Scientology, and how Nicole wasn't into it as much. it's amazing how numb we get to cultist populations. Of course everyone knows he is a Christian Scientologist, very rarely does one really think of the spiritual repercussions. Chyna | ||
| Terry |
What is a Christian Scientologist? I was involved with the Church of Scientology back in the early 80's, and there was no relationship with Christianity at that time... Is this an offshoot of the main church? Believe me, Scientology is pure humanism...New Age,etc. Curious Terry | ||
| Chyna |
yes, I do believe that is the same religion. Well, the defining characteristic I know about Christian Scientologists is that they refuse all medical treatment. that's about the extent of what I know. Chyna | ||
| Denisegilmore |
This Scientology was also part of my childhood upbringing. Now because we were in so many different denominations at different times in my life, it's hard to know if it was scientology that we followed most when I was 5. Infact, when I was 5 and ready to go to school, the school system insisted that I first have the shots necessary to enter school. But my dad said absolutely not. There arose a battle in the courts between my dad and the school system and my dad lost. He cried while I had to take that sugar cube and a shot at this gymnasium. I ended up in an iron lung with polio from the polio vaccination or the sugar cube, whichever one it was in. Eventually we left that church to enter the sda's, then jws, then wwcg, mormonism, judaism and all the rest I can't think of right off hand. My dad was searching too. He was only in his twenties and died at 34. He died because of the Church we were in that also said we could not go see doctors. A combination of SDA and WWCG encouraged him to keep praying for a healing. I took care of him with herbs of every sort for months. But to no avail. Doctors can be a good thing. God Bless our Docs! God Bless you too, DtB, your sister in Christ Jesus Amazing, the background the Lord has allowed me to experience. Good and bad, but somehow God worked them all out so here I am, with Jesus as my Lord and Savior. | ||
| Chyna |
I remember a sugar cube when I was little. I totally loved it. or maybe that was the maple sugar leaf I got to suck on the way home from the maple syrup farm when i lived in Canada! it's funny that you should bring that up Denise, because tonight on ER a woman had a little boy in preschool who contracted the measles because he, nor his siblings, had ever been vaccinated for anything! it was sad, he died. but the mother said she had researched it extensively and believed that it was too risky etc. etc. it was really sad. it kinda reminds me of the South African leader that believes AIDS is a myth, or the Africans that believe raping a virgin will cure them of AIDS or prevent them from contracted AIDS. Chyna | ||
| Valm |
I think you are all getting two different religions confused. The are the Christian Scientists founded by Mary Baker. They are the ones who believe in refusing medical rx. They have some type of belief that are bodies are just an imprint of our imaginations (whatever that means). They on some level profess Jesus as their Saviour. Scientology is a seperate belief system started more recently by a guy with the last name of Hubbard. His beliefs are pure humanism with a danger in becoming very controlled by the organization. To my knowledge, Christ is not professed in any way in ScienTOLOGY. Scientology is the one that Tom Cruise is involved in as are many other celebreties. Valerie | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Valerie, Christian Science and SDA Churches, had the same belief in regards to doctors, while I was growing up. Same with medicines. So did the World Wide Church of God or also known as the Radio Church of God that we attended. Between the three, doctors were out of the questions and so was any form of medication. I know, I lived it. There were 4 groups that started in the 1800's. SDAs, Mormonism, Christian Science and JWs. Each one had their own prophet and claimed to be the remnant. Now I don't know if this Scientology deal is the same as the Christian Science denomination. I do know that in this little town I live in, the SDA Church is directly across the street from a Christian Science Church. I have heard many a comment from SDAs out in the parking lot, looking across at that "apostate" Church. Interesting to note too that Ellen White herself stated that medicines should not be used. Of course now this doesn't apply to the most who go but it was the teaching of EGW. I'll find her own statements and post them here later. Same with the World Wide Church of God, while growing up, believe in faith only as a healing. But to even think of going to the doctor was absolutely prohibited. That Church at that time was headed by Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Ted Garner Armstrong. They have changed considerably in the past several years. Also admitting to several teachings that they used to teach as error. So because of their admissions, I have a whole lot more respect for that denomination than the SDA Church. The SDA's will admit no error. God Bless you, DtB, your sister in Christ | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Valerie, I just re-read your post about Scientology being different than the Christian Science. So in light of that, I did not know scientology growing up but did know and went to Christian Science congregations for a brief time. God Bless, DtB | ||
| Chyna |
hey Valerie, I didn't know that. although that does seem to make more sense, you'd hope they'd pick more different sounding names though, as not to get confused with one another. Chyna | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2004 |
Wow!! I do not remember the history of the SDA church, but from the time I was little, we all heard of SDA doctors and the College of Medical Evangelists. It seems the SDA changed their minds about medicine. It seems I remember reading somewhere in EGW writings that SDA doctors should use more herbs and natural healing methods. I do not remember where it is and I could be wrong. I cannot look it up as I threw away all my EGW books two weeks ago. I was brought up with the idea that SDAs should have doctors so we could be missionaries and reach people after we help them. It is amazing how this "truth" has changed. Diana |
