| Author | Message | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Kelly, Here is my favorite "few verse" sermon, I'll use the NKJ: John 3:16-18 "16...For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17...For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18...He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." New King James Version AND "24...Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." New King James Version Kelly, what is so great about this little sermon is that it clearly says that "believing" is the ONLY requirement for salvation. In fact, it was mentioned 5 times in those verses! I believe, do you? Those verses also tell me that the judgement of the "righteous" is behind then and the judgement of the "wicked" is in front of them. My judgement is BEHIND me!;-)) Praise God! Where is your judgement? I have "passed from death into life," have you? John 10:25-30 "25...Jesus answered them, I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Fatherís name, they bear witness of Me. 26...But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27...My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28...And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29...My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Fatherís hand. 30...I and My Father are one." New King James Version When you BELIEVE, no one is great enough to SNATCH you out of God's hand or Jesus' hand as He and God are one. I am sure of my salvation, are you? IBC=Insured By Christ | ||
| Colleentinker |
I have wrestlesd with the "once saved, always saved" idea, too. I have come to believe that a truly born again Christian can be certain of his salvation. The passages that warn against "falling away" are real. But, as I have heard our pastor Gary Inrig say, not everyone who claims to be a christian really is. Some people give an intellectual assent bu do not allow the Holy Spirit to give them a new heart. I know all the arguments against such a statement. In fact, I don't see a clear answer to this question in the Bible. I see absolute security for those who accept Christ and are, as Jesus told Nicodemus, "born again". I also see warnings and exhortations to stay focussed on Jesus. I understand these passages to be saying that a truly born again person will persevere and will stay committed to Jesus. I see it's possible for a born again person to do "fleshly acts", but that they can be restored. It is, I believe, a paradox. And, as Scott Peck says, when we believe only half of a paradox, we embrace a heresy. The one thing that makes this question make the most sense to me, however, is the issue of the spirit. If we believe that sin is in us physically, then conversion doesn't really do anything IN us, it's all external. If sin is being born with a dead spirit, however, conversion literally brings us to life. We quite literally enter a new reality; we become connected to eternity by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We then can moment by moment choose to submit to and live by the Spirit, or we can give in to the flesh.Paul was clear about this conflict in himself. When we understand the reality of living in the Spirit, the question of whether or not we can slip out of salvation becomes a moot point. When we know Jesus and love him, slipping away from him becomes less and less of an option. He holds us, and his love changes and marks us for eternity. One of the astonishing things I discovered when I realized I was completely saved by grace, completely independently of anything I could or would do or not do, I began to feel love for Jesus. That is a phenomenon I had always thought must be real but had never experienced before. It's very hard to slip in and out of a love relationship. We can hurt our Lover, but that doesn't mean we leave the commitment. This reality is a miracle. It's not something we can analyze or transfer. It's only understandable through the insight of the Holy Spirit. Some of these theological arguments don't have completely foolproof logical answers. The reality of our security and related issues only begin to make sense as spiritually discerned truth, not intellectually analyzed truth. (see 1 Corinthians 2) Please understand that I do not depend on emotional understandings. I really do have to examine the texts and pore over them before I feel that I have any understanding of them. But I praise God that he also gives us His Spirit and begins to give us understanding that transcends our intellects when we study the Bible with His help. For now, I'm comfortable with the paradox of absolutely secure salvation beside warnings to professed Christians not to fall away. I really do praise Jesus for tranforming our lives and for making of them what He desires as we begin to live and submit to him. Praise God! Colleen | ||
| Chyna |
for me, I what did *I* do, other than place my faith in Christ to save myself? I could do nothing to save myself, not a kind word, not my flawed love for my friends and family, not my acts of charity to the community, nothing. It is only by God's grace that any of us are saved, none of us are deserving. There is nothing we could do to make us more worthy of salvation! is it we who save ourselves, or does Christ? when God makes a promise, does He fulfill it? I always feel puzzled when people argue against Once Saved, Always Saved. What's the benefit of Once Saved, then the possibility of being Lost? to me, the idea that Salvation which we had no part in "earning" could be ruined or cast aside by our disobedience makes a mockery of Salvation in itself. Jesus died for all our sins, past, present, and future. Richard, when you say: 2. Christ made it possible for all sins to be covered as I live a life of faith (read the book of James). Belief alone is not sufficient. The demons believe and tremble. True faith yields action in response to that faith. Sin is forgiven only as it is confessed (1 John 1:9 IF we confess our sin...) I must disagree. How were the Old Testament Saints forgiven? Is it reasonable to think that they were able to confess every sin in their lives? For them to have sacrificed enough to earn their salvation? No. Jesus Christ died for every single sin, not every single "confessed" sin. To be honest, Richard, your answers sound exactly like my Adventist ex-b/f. 3. I have the assurance of salvation by the witness of the spirit in tandem with His word which tells me a life of faith In Christ yields salvation. Ok, yes, demons believe in Christ, it is true He exists. however many Christians believe in Satan, yet that does not make us worshippers of Satan either. the question is of Sovereignty. We surrender our lives to Christ to become saved. Do you really think if one truly gives their lives to Christ that they will be UNCHANGED? When the very Word of God proclaims that we have DIED to sin. When one gives up the "throne" of our own lives to Christ. How then can we ever be lost? I laugh because a similar situation arose on Friends: Rachel: Do you know why this happened?? Because I make bad decisions! Phoebe, from now on you make all the decisions in my love life. Phoebe: I don't feel comfortable with that. Monica: I do! Rachel: I say that I go back in there! (and comfort Ross, tell him I love him) Monica: I say you go back and apologize to David and leave Ross alone! Rachel: You're fired! Monica: You can't fire me! I make the decisions, and I say that I'm not fired! Every single time we sin, we are sending a message to God. We are saying effectively with our sin, "You're not Lord of my life, I am" EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME. Sorry for the cussing. I asked my boyfriend then. "How do I lose my salvation?" He told me, "I'm sure you won't lose your salvation." I told him I would like to know just to be sure. Because every sin I commit is an act of unfaithfulness to God saying that I make the decisions in my life, not God. What can make us unworthy of Salvation? EVERYTHING in our LIVES makes us unworthy of Salvation. No single Christian is sinless: not Moses, not David, certainly not Solomon, not Peter, not Paul, nor any of the Saints. Do you honestly believe that if David had not confessed his sin of adultery and murder and was killed before he confessed, that the man "after God's own heart" would not be saved?? What kind of God is that? How many sins do I have to commit to lose my salvation? If I curse God (like many do in tragic situations) does that mean my Salvation is lost? Who of us could come to God if He did not reach out to us first? "We love because He first loved us." Has our salvation ever been based on our how sinful, or how righteous we are? No. True, an obedient life reflects the fact that you are truly saved. For me, I have many friends apostate to the Christian faith. I look at them with sad eyes. Will you and I ever really know whether they are saved or not? it is known to God, but not always to us. I thought my ex b/f was a Christian: he talked like a Christian, prayed with me, sang hymns with me, studied the bible with me. Yet when I asked him his personal testimony he did not have one! In the New Testament, conversions are clearly noted, as events, not as "300 faithful lives merited salvation" nope. it said instead, "But many of the people who heard their message believed it, so that the number of believers totaled about five thousand men, not counting women and children" So again I will bring up the example of a Covenant. In the Old Testament, when they made a covenant, they sacrificed animals, laid the two halves separate and walking down it signified sealing the promise. Well, when God made Covenants with Israel. God would pass through, signifying that He would uphold the covenant. We see God's faithfulness to us (undeservingly) from the beginning to the end of the Bible!!! When Adam and Eve disobeyed, God still had a plan of Salvation. When God promised to be the God of Israel, even though time and time again, the Israelites turned to their idols. God remained Faithful. Even when God turned His face away from the Israelites, He still returned, He became a man to fulfill the law: to save manking. He was still Faithful. Even when the ones crucified Him, the very ones that killed Him (talk about leading a life unfaithful to God!) He still desired the cross for the Joy set before Him. Even when we turn our faces away from God, like the Prodigal son. God illustrated to us that we will always be His children. I just don't see how full assurance of Salvation: come hell or high water ISN'T consistent with the character of God or His plan of Salvation. tiredly, Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
Salvation don't lessen it! this is what disturbs me the most about Adventism. Jesus' life and death accomplished two things to bring us to Salvation: 1. by His Death He atoned for the sin of the whole world, past, present, and future. We must believe this, otherwise, the OT Saints could not be 'Saved' and otherwise, we could not be saved currently! Nor could our children ever be saved. the debt of our sin (death) was canceled by His blood (and subsequent death), the unblemished Lamb of God. God foreshadowed this Ultimate Sacrifice by having the Israelites make animal sacrifices -- yet they were so incomplete and never could fully atone for sin. 2. His blameless life. I know some Adventists point to this example to show us that man can live a sinless life. That is a lie because the Bible tells us if anyone says they are without sin, they are lying, so it's a lie! Jesus experienced all the temptations that man experiences. We now have a high priest who understands our weaknesses. Anyway, He had to be blameless in the first place in order to be the perfect Sacrifice. His holy life is imputed on us. Understand (in our limited human sense) the purity of God. God cannot be with sin. God is Holy, He is pure white. Even a speck of darkness would corrupt the purity of unremitting white, correct? So that, any sin, we commit would estrange us from God. Yet! Because God sees us with Jesus' purity, we are able to be with Him. 3. Our transformation is not complete. Jesus conquered the Gates of Hell. Jesus conquered death. True, we are saved, yet we still struggle with sin, and most of us, unless Rapture comes soon will die also. But we are going to be transformed when we go to Heaven so we will not sin. Our fellowship with God will be perfect and unmarred by sin. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Bill Thompson, You said, in answer to my question: >>Denise, Yes, many SDAs do see the sabbath as a salvation issue for those living in the last days. Here is a question I ask them, "So, is this a different plan of salvation for the last days?" If it is, then this is a different "gospel" message for the last days. Doesn't the Bible warn against a "different gospel". See Galatians 1:6-8. Then go back to passages such as Eph. 2:8,9 or Romans 3:20-24 that show we are not saved by works, never have been and never will be.<< Thank you and I want you to know that this is now printed out so I have the Scriptures in my hand for the next "unplanned study." My memory is terrible most of the time so this will come in very handy indeed. God Bless, DtB, your sister in Jesus Christ | ||
| Chyna |
A funny, but maybe sad thought. With both Richard's and Kelly's replies I thought simply that this must be the 'best' way to live life: sin sin sin (in your youth) sin sin sin, orgies, drunkeness, abuse, molestation sin sin sin, steal, lie, commit adultery, sin sin sin sin sin sin sin sin sin sin sin sin until you're 80 and on your death bed: Confess therefore all your past sins are absolved, and you don't have to worry about losing your salvation! because in that split moment before death you'll have lived a faithful life! that is certainly *not* the picture of Christianity the Bible shows us. Paul said that he constantly wrestled with his old sinful nature. Most N.T. Saints (before they were saints) upon hearing the good news joyously converted. I say saints in the way that all Christians are saints, cool, huh. Apparently, some of my friends went to India -- witnessing to people who had never heard the gospel who received it immediately! She said they were stunned and couldn't believe it was real, but it was. If God's plan of Salvation had a trap hole that we could open, if we searched around for it or turned our backs on Him and started walking the other way, how would we have eternal life? we're saved 'eternally' for a little while, and then not? what part of eternally is not eternal? doesn't God desire for His children to be with Him? He clearly does not call us all on our deathbeds to "ensure" we are 'always faithful' in our lives to Him. Yet you would think that would be the game plan, it would include all the things many people enjoy: sinning, and free will. therefore they were plunged, immersed in sin. Jesus cleansed them once, then they died, so Jesus wouldn't have to 'continually' cleanse them to 'keep' them saved. Sheesh, can't you see how much that cheapens the Blood of Christ? To say that His Ultimate Sacrifice is not enough that we still need to keep confessing in order to stay pure? As I explicitly outlined in the previous message, our purity before God depends on Jesus Christ in terms of our salvation. In terms of our personal walk, yes, sin leads us away from God, yet I question everyone that says we can lose our salvation by sinning. to me, it seems silly, I must admit. I asked, "can you be saved, and then lose your salvation and then be saved again???" "How many times are you able to do this?" The question seems silly. Once we are saved, there is no back door, there is no hole for us to fall through to let us slip out of God's hand. My ex said neither he nor I were likely to lose our salvation. I asked him how he knew that. He didn't seem to have any answers. He seemed angry at the possibility that we could not not lose your salvation. I blinked at him, "What part of hell is better than being with God?" Apparently he believes the option to break a covenant as a result of freewill, and eternal torture in hell are better than an eternity with God. Yet that brings us back again to the nature of God. Just as God is Love, He is THE definition of Love, He is also THE definition of FAITHFULNESS. And I believe He will be faithful to me to the end of the age. That He will never leave me or forsake me no matter how far I fall away from Him. May sin increase so that grace may increase? May it never be -- says Paul. Yes, a Christian's life will be demonstrated by faith lived out through works. Yet none of our salvation depends on works. Our desire to walk with God should not stem from wanting to 'keep' or 'maintain' our salvation but rather out of the change that God has made in our lives! as a result of a close relationship with God, we will demonnstrate the Fruit of the Spirit: peace, love, joy, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, kindness, patience, self-control. oops! guess God forgot to include 'sabbath keeping' to the fruit of the Spirit that He gives to every Christian. darn. where does that keeping ability go? when your perception of Salvation changes from 'maintain it' (by faithfulness) which can only be construed as Salvation by works and not by faith, to by grace alone, an everlasting peace fills your life because you know that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalties, nor any other created thing can separate us from the Love of God. | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Chyna, You asked: >>Who of us could come to God if He did not reach out to us first?<< None of us, would be my answer. :) God Bless you, DtB | ||
| Max |
Tiredly but truly, Chyna, Powerful post! The Good Shepherd knew which sheep belonged to him and which didn't -- from BEFORE the foundations of the earth were laid, whether in "this sheep pen" or not. Before the twins Jacob and Esau were born, before they could know right from wrong, God LOVED Jacob and HATED Esau. And Jacob's very name means "deceiver," which he most certainly turned out to be. Dear fellow FAFFers: Go figure. God has ALREADY done the figuring. And besides, you don't get to second guess God anyway. Sorry about that. "Once saved always saved"? Baaah! Humbug! Those words are in the minds of men, but they're not found in Scripture! The truth as it is in Scripture: God knew -- saved or lost -- from BEFORE the foundations of the earth were laid. The cross only put teeth into the predestination. Nor is biblical freedom of choice violated by this scriptural concept. For, if you are free in Christ you are free indeed! God knew who was going to fall away and who wasn't -- from before the foundations of the earth were laid. The biblical concept of predestination completely and most satisfyingly (to me) explains such so-called "difficult" texts as Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV): "It is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO REPENTANCE. A lot of folks can't accept this scriptural princple. But that's their problem, not God's! In Scripture there are many mysteries, but not here. There is NO mystery here: God knew BEFORE he saved anybody who (such as Jacob) was going to accept, who (such as Esau) was going to reject, who was going to accept first and then fall away later, and who was gong to reject first and come into the sheep pen later. It may be a mystery to us, but believe me, my friends, it is no mystery to our Sovereign! MC | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hi Max. :)) | ||
| Max |
Hello friend Denise! Love you in Christ! MC | ||
| Chyna |
Dear Max: This is the commentary I looked up on your passage of Hebrews 6:4-6 Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV): "It is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO REPENTANCE. ---> The power of the Holy Ghost, the miracles wrought in the bosom of Christianity, were testimonies that the power which was to accomplish that deliverance-although still hidden in heaven-existed nevertheless in the glorious Person of the Son of God. The power did not yet accomplish the deliverance of this world oppressed by Satan, because another thing was being done meanwhile. The light of God was shining, the good word of grace was being preached, the heavenly gift (a better thing than the deliverance of the world) was being tasted; and the sensible power of the Holy Ghost made itself known, while waiting for the return in glory of the Messiah to bind Satan, and thus accomplish the deliverance of the world under His dominion. Speaking generally, the power of the Holy Ghost, the consequence of the Messiah's being glorified above, was exercised on earth as a present manifestation and anticipation of the great deliverance to come. The revelation of grace, the good word of God, was preached; and the Christian lived in the sphere where these things displayed themselves, and was subjected to the influence exercised in it. This made itself to be felt by those who were brought in among Christians. Even where there was no spiritual life, these influences were felt. But, after having been the subject of this influence of the presence of the Holy Ghost, after having tasted the revelation thus made of the goodness of God, and experienced the proofs of His power, if any one then forsook Christ, there remained no other means for restoring the soul, for leading it to repentance. The heavenly treasures were already expended: he had given them up as worthless; he had rejected the full revelation of grace and power, after having known it. What means could now be used? To return to Judaism, and the first principles of the doctrine of Christ in it, when the truth had been revealed, was impossible: and the new light had been known and rejected. In a case like this there was only the flesh; there was no new life. Thorns and briars were being produced as before. There was no real change in the man's state. When once we have understood that this passage is a comparison of the power of the spiritual system with Judaism, and that it speaks of giving up the former, after having known it, its difficulty disappears. The possession of life is not supposed, nor is that question touched. The passage speaks, not of life, but of the Holy Ghost as a power present in Christianity. To "taste the good word" is to have understood how precious that word is; and not the having been quickened by its means. [See Footnote #14] Hence in speaking to the Jewish Christians he hopes better things and things which accompany salvation, so that these things could be there and yet no salvation. Fruit there could not be. That supposes life. The apostle does not however apply what he says to the Hebrew Christians: for, however low their state might be, there had been fruits, proofs of life, which in itself no mere power is; and he continues his discourse by giving them encouragement, and motives for perseverance. It will be observed, then, that this passage is a comparison between that which was possessed before and after Christ was glorified-the state and privileges of professors, at these two periods, without any question as to personal conversion. When the power of the Holy Ghost was present, and there was the full revelation of grace, if any forsook the assembly, fell away from Christ, and turned back again, there was no means of renewing them to repentance. The inspired writer therefore would not again lay the foundation of former things with regard to Christ-things already grown old-but would go on, for the profit of those who remained steadfast in the faith. <--- it's occurred to me this: Jesus Christ demonstrated His Godhood through showing His power over the earth (calming the sea, walking on water, withering the fig tree, bread and fishes, wine to water) to man (healing blind, cripple, leprosy, bleeding) to man's spiritual wellbeing (you are forgiven!) And yet people still didn't come to Christ! They still didn't believe and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior! it reminds me of that story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man pleaded to go back to tell his family, but God/Jesus said, even when God Himself testifies of Himself, some will not believe, even if He comes back from the dead (I guess a foreshadowing of the cross). also, this shows a remarkable comment on Adventists whom (though they don't see it) are clinging to Judaism. | ||
| Max |
Thank you, Chyna, I don't see anything in that commentary that would contradict what I posted about God's predestination. Do you? MC | ||
| Chyna |
Let's Play: Whose Pawn Are You? well more like: Who is Winning? :) somewhere in the eternity of time... God v Lucifer. Lucifer wanted to take God's throne, God won, cast Lucifer/Satan out of heaven along with 1/3rd of the angels (owch that's a lot of angels/current demons, of course they believe in God they were with Him before). God v. Satan (Lucifer, same dude). Adam and Eve, Satan tempted Eve, Eve fell for it, they disobeyed God, and were thrown out of the Garden. mankind and the world's control apparently Satan's God v. Satan. Jesus Christ the Messiah. All throughout the Old Testament you will see Satan constantly trying to wipe out the line that Jesus is supposed to be descended from. Once a mad queen tries to kill every single one of the descendants (who do you think was behind that!) but still one baby escaped King Josiah. When Saul was trying to destroy David, constantly again and again, who do you think was egging Saul on? Saul threw a spear at David in his palace! Jesus v. Satan. Satan has Pilate slaughter all the male children from 2 and under in Jerusalem? Bethlehem? (help?), when the wise men came to worship his birth, Pilate tried to kill Him (also Satan inspired) 40 days in the desert, Jesus is tempted by Satan: Have all this, if you bow down and worship me. Jesus refuses. Jesus V. Satan. Satan employs Judas to kill Jesus the Messiah. Little does Satan realize this is all God's plan also. Jesus dies, Satan rejoices, but not for long. Jesus is resurrected. Satan is furious. Satan is furious because Salvation guarantees that Jesus has won them, won us completely 100% sealed in the Holy Spirit. Satan cares nothing about you and I other than to be used as pawns against God. Satan v. nonbelievers. Satan does everything in his power to keep us away from God, to keep us from being saved. true, it is also our sinful nature, but Satan does his best by frightening us mostly (spirits, 'ghosts', demons, possessions) and tempting us with worldly things. Jesus v. Satan for the Christians. We can only belong to Jesus Christ or Satan, we cannot belong to both at the same time Once we are saved, we belong to Christ, He has bought us, at such a price! Satan tries his best to keep us away from God so we won't be used by Him or be filled with His power. Nothing irks Satan more than a real Christian, he prefers the 'Christian' Christians that do everything but glorify the name of God because Satan hates God. now, we are in the possession of Christ, in His hands. Can Satan ever wrestle us away from His grasp? No. "Nor angels nor principalities." Principalities refers to demons. So once we're saved, there is no way that Jesus will not prevail over Satan. Because once you become a Christian, you are secure in Jesus' grasp, and I can assure you that Jesus will not surrender you to Satan because that is the ONLY alternative to Jesus. so to both Kelly, and Richard, and my adventist ex out there, Satan will not be the victor. I wish you both could see that being concerned about "maintaining" one's salvation is leading a defeatedChristian life, it is most likely that it is a way for Satan to hold Christians down, so that they are so worried about holding onto their salvation that they can't grow, or that they live in constant fear, which can't exist because "perfect love casts out all fear." there you have it: worry about maintaining or keeping your salvation is a fear. and since our salvation is based and it's very constituency is perfect love, maintaining/keeping our salvation is not of God or of His plan of Salvation. because it's a huge worry! it's the difference between heaven and hell! it's not some tiny pecadillo we're talking about! it's a big deal! lastly: God and His Angels, and US! v. Satan and his demons. well it's all written down in Revelations, isn't it? Armageddon, but we will win forever. And Satan will lose. something tells me that God allows this imperfect world where Satan and his demons roam the world causing havoc, plagues, wars, rapes etc., only because He wants more to come to Christ (i know this b/c it says in the Bible i can look up the verse later). so while we dwell in this pain filled world where children are thrown away by their parents, and the poor and elderly are ignored callously, and women have to sell their bodies for prostitution, it is only because God values us so much that He allows this current version of the world to continue. 100% saved, Chyna | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Colleen, About a year and and a few months ago, I remember seeing how loving people were. Also I noticed the love that they shined while talking about Jesus. I, at that time, couldn't understand even how or what makes people tick that would give a thank you card or a get well card to others. It was something I realized was lacking in me. Then while still reading the Bible I would read Paul's epistles and see the love he had towards our Lord Jesus and I could not imagine having that kind of love towards somebody, God Himself, without first knowing how to love people that I can see, touch and interact with. So, I prayed to Jesus. Explaining to Him how I don't know how to love Him. That I didn't even really know how to love people around me like I saw in others. Since then, my life has been changing. Truly I care for people and worry about them. Still I'm not a card giver or flowers and what not but my heart was going out to people like never before in my life. Next, I realized that those passages or epistles of Paul and John were something I could relate to. For the first time, I realized that not only did I know there was this Jesus Christ, our Savior but that indeed I love Him. You are right about it being a phenomenon because I cannot explain this. But this I do know and that is that this love for Him seems to be increasing and here I had thought that the love I felt was the best that could be from me. But it keeps on growing. Is this my imagination? I don't think so. Infact, I go back to my early life and remember my dad telling me about this Jesus. Although I was very young and did not understand the significance of Him, I would sing "Jesus loves me, this I know..." At night, I would imagine Jesus coming to take us all to heaven and as that little girl, this excited me. Guess it never left <chuckle> cause I still get excited! But in growing up, we as adults learn to turn off our emotions because society or the dysfunctional family has ruined or oppressed that side of us. As adults, we think we have to always be adult-like and act mature. Forgetting the whole time that we are God's children. I praise Him for seeking me out and reminding me and also for hearing that heartfelt prayer that I prayed to Him about me not being able to love. He keeps showing His love to me so much so, that my love for Him just keeps growing. And some days, I feel I could just burst or start flying because of the joy this brings to me. I thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for He has not only saved me and given to me eternal life, but He has delivered me from so many things that were thorns. One being, the feeling of me just loving so inadequately that I would never fit in with human beings let alone be in communion with God Almighty! And I know we will probably not know what REAL love is or how to show it as well as we would like, as we are simply human beings. But one day...we will, or at least I believe that. Each day is a new day with Him. Each day is a new something He shows me His love by. How different now are my feelings from just over 1 year ago. It's hard to imagine I could love Him more but I know, something inside tells me, that even more shall I love HIM. What a life. Moreover, what a NEW life! What greater experience could one have? We have been saved, He continues to love us and from that our love continues to grow! God is Awesome. Well, anyhow in my feeble attempts to express love, here you have my thoughts and feelings. God Bless you and Richard always, DtB, your sister, growing in love in Jesus Christ | ||
| Kelly |
Hello everyone, I have question. I have asked it before, but have never gotten a clear response. It falls very much in line with what we are talking about. The concept of ETERNAL LIFE. There are an abundance of texts that say "Believe and you will have eternal life". The only condition for eternal life is to believe in the name of Jesus Christ. Right? So, if God, who is Sovereign, is willing to offer us eternal life on the basis of "I Believe" then thats it!!! We have eternal life, there is no text that says there is a continuing condition in order to retain eternal life. If there is a condition on the "eternal life clause" then there is nothing "eternal" about it!! The entire concept of eternal eludes to the fact that it can not, will not cease under any condition. Right? I still haven't asked my question. Here it is: King Saul was filled with the Spirit of God at different times in his life, at other times he was tormented by an evil spirit SENT FROM GOD. Doesn't this imply that king Saul was a believer? If king Saul was a believer, he had eternal life, right? So when king Saul heard the voice of Samuel say "You and your sons will be with me tomorrow", this was a spirit from God? The "prophecy" came to pass, king Saul and his sons were killed in battle the next day. If king Saul was saved then I too can believe there is nothing that I can do to "take my salvation back"! I have one more question: What about Judas Iscariot, he was selected by Jesus Christ as a disciple? Was Judas Iscariot never a believer even though he was hand picked by Christ? OR was Judas Iscariot a believer who "went bad" and still has eternal life? Jesus Christ knew the inner thoughts of man, so it wasn't any surprise to him? Jesus said that "one of them would betray him" does this mean that he was once loyal, can a saved person become an enemy of the cross and still be saved? I'm anxious to read your answers. For it will affect my determination on whether eternal life has a condition upon "retaining it". | ||
| Billthompson |
Valerie, You asked a great question about Romans 3:31. You know of course SDAs would use this verse, out of context to support their sabbath doctrine. They'd ignore everything else in chapters 3 and 4 of Romans where it is made clear that no one has ever been or will ever be saved by observing the law. The book of Romans does not fully address this issue of "upholding the law" in this one verse. Read further (I recommend reading the full book of Romans verse by verse, chapter by chapter to get the full message, in it's context) when you get to chapters 6 and 7 the isssue becomes much clearer and then when you get to Romans 13:8-10 it becomes crystal clear, addressing the 10 commandments specificly. Bill Thompson | ||
| Billthompson |
Colleen, I fully agree with your post above. Your experience in dealing with this issue mirrors my own and the conclusions you have reached are the same as mine. Richard Hardison is a wonderful brother in Christ and I have thoroughly enjoyed discussions we have had in the past on other forums. We will simply have to agree to disagree without being disagreeable, where this one issue is concerned. Bill Thompson | ||
| Billthompson |
Valerie, Another great passage related to the role of the 10 commandments in the New Covenant can be found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11, also see Jeremiah 31:31-32. Bill Thompson | ||
| Valm |
Kelly, You have great questions, and I will give it a try. I myself can not judge either Saul or Judas. Only God can make those decisions. I can not know what was in either man's heart. Only God knows. Formyself, I will always, always be God's child. I really mess up at times, just as my children do. But just as I will always love my children, and they will always come back to me (and I will always be there for them), I will always be God's child. This is my belief. Even those who are going against the laws of God, once they have accpted the Gospel message it will always be with them. They will not ever be able to be comfortable in their sins and they will return. It is their reality. Perhaps they will not return until their deathbeds but they will return. Does this give license for death bed conversion? NO! NO! NO! Who would wish to be so unhappy up until their deathbeds? I hear people with a resentful tone discuss this with reguards to once saved always saved. It is if they believe that those who are leading a life of sin are having all of the fun and still gettig salvation. They have a childish "No fair" attitude. They view living within God's laws as a gaunlet they are running to get to heaven. They do not have the laws of God in their hearts. If they did they wouldn't even be considering this matter. They are the ones in MORE JEPORDY than the deathbed "reconversion" people. Let me tell you my belief that living a life of sin might look fun but it brings on so much trouble, sickness, lonliness, ect that I would much rather continue on God's path than my fellow brothers and sisters who have acccepted God's gift of Salvation and then turned their backs to it for this time in their life. I am interested along with you to hear other responses. I hope this helps you sort this matter out. Valerie. | ||
| Valm |
Thanks Bill, I started on Romans last night. I will get back with you once I have read Romans in entirity, unless I have questions sooner. I love the Jeremiah verse you qouted, it is one of my favorites. I will read the one in 2 Corinthians this am. Valerie |
