| Author | Message | ||
| Delstar |
Darrell, (I have a son named Darrell)... you asked how 'It is Well With My Soul' is sung in SDA churches.....let me answer that..... As a dirge. Jesus Is Enough | ||
| Darrell |
No, I didn't ask that. Susan did. And by the way, Susan, Adventists do believe we have a soul, they just don't believe it is seperable from the body. Don't you remember all the talk about saving souls? | ||
| Richardtinker |
Last Sunday at church we sang "It is Well With My Soul." As I sang I remembered singing it a few years ago at the Loma Linda University Church feeling unsure about my salvation and scared of the future. I think many at that Loma Linda church felt the same way, since the singing seemed very half-hearted. But last Sunday I sang it with complete confidence that it really is well with my soul--I am completly secure in Jesus! Since Adventists were instructed by EGW to not say that they are saved, how can they even dare sing that song? | ||
| Susan |
Hi Darrell, I agree with you. SDA's do believe we have a soul. It's just not a seperate thing from the body in any way. When they refer to "souls", they simply mean how many people or bodies, if you will, were saved. They do not believe in the biblical teaching of having a soul that is eternally alive with Christ. In fact, their doctrine is more accurately defined as "soul-extinction" rather than "soul sleep". This is why I'm curious about them being able to sing the song. In reality, if you truly embrace SDA doctrines, then wouldn't your mind be interpreting the hymn,"it is well, with my body", as you sing it? BTW, I got my proof of their teaching from their Q.'s on D.'s. Even though I had this heresy pounded into me growing up, I still wanted to check out the offical position. Richard, it is so awesome to sing that song now! With a full understanding, it TRULY is "Well with my soul"!!! | ||
| Breezy |
I think that is unfair. We sang it is well at my church awhile back and it was glorious. We only have 10 members including the kids, but when our voices lifted up to Heaven in this, one of my favorite hymns, it was unmatchable. Richard, I hope you meant "those in Adventism who don't have any assurance of salvation", not the rest of us. Wendy | ||
| Richardtinker |
Wendy, No, I meant all TRUE Seventh-day Adventists, since to be one you must believe and follow Ellen G. White. And how can an Adventist have assurance of salvation when their "investigative judgement" is not finished, and the results are not in yet? There is nothing to compare with the truth that Jesus finished His work of saving me at the cross and I am forever secure. I can safely rest in Him! Richard | ||
| Darrell |
I have to agree with Wendy on this one. You folks are not building up the body of Christ by implying part of His body cannot enjoy singing a beautiful hymn. 'Nuff said. | ||
| Breezy |
Richard, Been here before. I do not not believe that your impression of the Investigative Judgement is correct. I know many people who disagree with it. I am an Adventist. I am not afraid to say I am saved. Ellen meant saved by our own deeds. She didn't mean don't ever think you are saved. I am saved. And I know thousands of others that stand up joyfully and say "I am saved". I am sorry you didn't have the confidence to say that. I am sorry for anyone who does not feel they can say that. But do not place your experience in a general statement that includes all Adventist. By the way. Would you ask your wife to quit calling me a pornographer on a public forum? Thank you. Darrell, Thank you. Wendy | ||
| Patti |
While I technically agree with you, Darrell, I also believe it is quite valid for formers to give their "before and after" testimonies. I know that none of those old hymns meant much of anything to me until the Gospel was revealed to me. I mean, how can one sing "Blessed Assurance" when one has none? How can one sing "Jesus Is Coming Again" with joyful anticipation when one knows in his heart that he is "not ready" yet? How can one sing "Just As I Am" when what they truly mean is that one must "die to self," "keep the commandments," "repent of and confess every sin," etc. before God will hear his cry for mercy? | ||
| Breezy |
Patti, Because that is what you guys believed. Not what all Adventists believe. Thousands and thousands of Adventists do have "Blessed Assurance", "It is Well with my soul", and "Just as I am" with perfect belief, understanding, and hope for the future. Like I said to Richard, I am sorry your experience was so poor. But for everyone to place the blame on Adventism instead of themselves and not thinking for themselves, is sad. Your experience is the experience of maybe 1% of Adventists at best and for this forum and so many websites to attack the church because of it will not be rewarded by Christ at the Second Advent. I joyfully express my salvation and most other Adventists do as well. And they spend their time spreading that blessed hope, not degrading fellow members of the body of Christ. Kinda makes ya think, doesn't it? Wendy | ||
| Patti |
Again, you misunderstand. We are not people to be pitied. Nor have I heard many pity parties here. What I hear is great rejoicing that God chose to illuminate us with the Light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It was not our "bad experiences" in the SDA church that made us leave, although this is what SDAs invariably want to believe; it is the fact that nearly all of the unique doctrine of the SDA church stands in conflict with the only doctrine that counts: Salvation by faith in the perfect, complete, and entirely effacacious saving work of Jesus Christ. "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness." Anything inside of "me" is most certainly "less" than "Jesus' blood and righteousness." "Jesus Paid it All," which, btw is a hymn not found in the SDA hymnals. Or at least not in the old one. "Jesus paid it ALL, ALL to HIM I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain, He washed me white as snow." Our only hope is forgiveness of sin in Jesus Christ. The moment we cease to be sinners, that is the moment we have no further need of the Savior. Thus the song, "I love to tell the story, for those who know it best seem hungering and thirsting to hear it, like the rest.... And when in scenes of glory, I sing the new, new song, 'twill be the old, old story that I have loved so long." We can do no better in this life than to kneel in humility and contrition at the foot of the cross. Brinsmead said something to this effect: Kneeling at the foot of the cross the sinner has reached the point of highest honor in the universe." We will never overcome our sinful nature in this life, and we will never cease to be sinners saved by the infinite mercy of God alone. We will never deserve anything by eternal death, except that God, in His mercy, sent His Son to perfectly fulfill all of the law in our behalf and to die the second death for us--the death that we deserve. It is only by trusting in the knowledge and assurance that Jesus has worked our our salvation IN ITS PERFECT ENTIRETY, that we can rest from our efforts to save ourselves and depend on His love and His mercy. That, my dear SDA friend, is what drove us from your denomination. When the Gospel was revealed to me, I was ecstatic and tried to share my new faith with my SDA peers. They would hear nothing of it. I was met left and right with, "Yes, Jesus died for our sins, BUT (the BB Syndrome again) we must do our part also." Which totally negates salvation by Jesus alone. I would hear such things as, "We have talked enough about Jesus; let's go on to the MEAT of the Gospel. Let's talk about the Sunday laws." Every where I went, I met with nothing by hostility to the idea that our salvation has been completed and perfected in Jesus Christ; that belief in Him alone, is not only SUFFICIENT for our salvation, it is the ONLY WAY we can be sure that we are saved. There is only one gate, Jesus Christ. No man approaches the Father except through Him. Not through commandment keeping, sabbath observance, fasting, prayer, Bible study--NOTHING will make us acceptable to God except believing in the One Whom He has sent. I am only suprised at how many people who call themselves by His name do not find this to be "Good News." Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Breezy |
*SIGH* | ||
| Terry |
Wendy, What Patti says is so true. Yes, you are right that many SDA's have full assurance of salvation. However, I believe that your percentile (1%) that don't have assurance is grossly inacurate. I can name 10 of my own relatives (SDA's) who don't know if they are saved or not, my mother included! I truly believe that those SDA's who do have this assurance are not very good SDA's, in the sense of abiding with and believing the 27 fundamental doctines of the SDA church. I assure you that if any of these would spend hours and hours of serious unbiased Bible study, they would come to a serious crisis. Do you know any Historic SDA types? I have an old girl-friend and two other friends, that are literally afraid of me now. Go figure! Why is there so much confusion in the SDA church? Why are there three camps? This doesn't seem to be present in non-denominational churches. Just thinking out loud. How was your day, Wendy? Off to give a massage. Any body want one? *Smiles* Terry | ||
| George |
Hi guys, The forum by its very nature is a place where we can say whatever we want to say about our experiences, thoughts and feelings. Some years ago I was telling an old SDA friend exactly what I thought of the church when she said, remember that is my church you are talking about. I thought about for a moment and said, you are right and if I had never been in the church it would be in extremly bad form for me to say these things, but since it was my church at one time I could say anything I wanted to because it was responsible for the feelings I was expressing. She then said I was right too. Adventism seems to have changed over the last 40 years, on the surface it is more tolerent than it once was. But that doesn't help much when we have a bad taste left in our mouths from years ago. Those of you that are still in the church have to remember that we have some real tough emotions that have to be worked out. If you want to get a better insight into the way we feel and what we are going through get some books on recovery from abuse, what ever the main point of the book is doesn't matter to much. It could about recovery from child abuse or cultism or what have you, the process is much the same. Now, those of us that are out of the church, must remember the passion of those still in. If we all remember where we have come from and where some have gone things will work out in the end. George | ||
| Susan |
Great points George! You are a wise man. Thank you for reminding us, to consider where each other's coming from. In Christ, Susan | ||
| Breezy |
George, That WAS brilliant. That was one of the best insights I have ever seen. The Adventist church has changed alot. I believe alot for the better, and perhaps just as much for the worse. In any case I really appreciate your wisdom and pray that all everywhere will take it to heart. Wendy | ||
| Breezy |
George, I could literally send you hundreds of books from the ABC book center that show how much"grace alone" has sprung up in the church. In spite of what Patti and a few others say, I am grace alone without any Big Buts.:) All I ask for everyone to consider is that when we accept grace, the works naturally follow because we do not want to be distant from God. They just happen naturally by the power of the Holy Spirit. Wendy | ||
| Breezy |
Terry, I'm a married woman. (Big grin!!!) Wendy | ||
| Terry |
Hey all, If any one is interested in abuse from the church (any), there is a book out on it by Ken Blue, a man whom I have heard preach the pure Gospel of Jesus. Here is the link to it: http://www.gospelrevolution.com/abuse.htm | ||
| Sherry2 |
What on earth is this about that has been posted by Breezy? :"By the way. Would you ask your wife to quit calling me a pornographer on a public forum? Thank you" |
