| Author | Message | ||
| Lori |
THE DIVINE ATTRIBUTES OF GOD 1. Sovereignty 2. Righteousness 3. Justice 4. Love 5. Eternal Life 6. Omniscience 7. Omnipresence 8. Omnipotence 9. Immutability 10. Veracity Why don't we start at the top and work our way down? Lets examine the Sovereignty of God!! | ||
| Lydell |
Lori, my hubby and I learned much about the importance of the Sovereignty of God last year. When my folks came down to stay with us after dad's stoke, we found that his personality had changed. There was much he could no longer do. It was a struggle to deal with someone who desperately wanted to do something that was no longer a possibility for them to do safely, like driving! It all became a matter of crying to El Elyon for direction. What would the future hold? When the day came that we had planned to take them home, my husbands suddenly and surprisingly in pain with a backache. The trip had to be postponed for a week. At the end of that week, the morning we were to leave, my father quite unexpectedly died. Had we taken him home the previous week, my mom would have been alone with him when he died. Because we were grounded in the sovereignty of God, we could deal with his death knowing that: had the ambulance gotten here in 5 minutes instead of 25 the outcome would not have been different, had we been better trained in CPR, the outcome would not have been different, had he been home and closer to the hospital, the outcome would not have been different. It's a comfort to know that my dad lived out his days serving his saviour, and that the Lord already knew exactly what day and what hour he would die. Not before dad had completed some task he had planned for him. But only when all his work was done. There have been so many things the lord has done to provide for my mom over the past year, it is just amazing. There has been so many things He has done to minister to the rest of the family at just the right time. His timing, and his provision, has been so perfect. And it helps me to recall those things. "May the Lord answer you when you are in distress; may the name of the God of Jacob protect you. May he send you help from the sanctuary and grant you support from Zion." Ps. 20: 1,2 By the way, I think that Genesis 14:20 is the first time that name of God is used in the Bible. | ||
| Lydell |
By the way, if anyone can tell me the ASL sign for "sovereignty" I'd appreciate it. A friend and I are stuck on that word in coming up with the signs for a song. | ||
| Valm |
Lori and Lydell, Would you take a stab at the definition of Sovereignty? It is interesting that you start with this one. I will always acknowledge his sovereignty (to me this means that he is the king the ruler the absolute in authority) but it is the other characteristics that are important to me. It is Who he is as our King and how he cares for us as his servants. Throughout worldly kingdoms there have been many "sovereign" kings. But did the people follow their king out of fear or out of respect and love? In God's sovereignty there will be many things that I won't understand. Lydell's story is a good example. Why did the circumstances happen as they did? For a reason. And I hold on to the text that "All things work for good for them who love God." In my own life when in the deepest of grief over the unfortunate demise of two pregnancies I could not understand why. But now I see so much that I gained through those experiences, I would not part from them for anything. God certainly knows what is best for us. Lydell could the ASL sign for king suffice? Valerie | ||
| Lydell |
We've decided that just signing "king" isn't quite enough since God is more than "king". "King" over "kings", truly. But that's not quite right. Someone who knows signs suggested "all control" but the sign doesn't flow with those before and after. So we are still searching. To me the sovereignty of God is that nothing can happen to me that He doesn't already know about. He knows the beginning of it, He knows how I will get thru it, has already provided the grace to do so, knows the purpose of the experience, and most important when you are going through something....He knows the exact time it will end as well. Kay Arthur's comment was that the Lord is in control and nothing can happen in His universe without His permission, "God so rules and overrules that no person, angel, demon, or devil, nor any circumstance of life, can thwart His plan." It's a tough one losing a child Valerie! I'm sorry to hear about that. When our daughter was stillborn, I put every ounce of strength I had into clinging to the promise, "all things work together for good". I have to admit that before we went through that horrible experience I really had no clue what it was like for someone to lose a child. It certainly puts you in a position to be able to effectively minister to others going thru their own loss. | ||
| Chyna |
May I add? The Fruit of the Spirit is: Peace, Love, Joy, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Kindness, & Self Control. All of these embody God's character. | ||
| Valm |
Hello there Chyna, Where have you been? Good to see your name again. Valerie | ||
| Lori |
Sovereignty God is the the Supreme Being of the Universe. (Deut.4:39; 1 Sam. 2:6-8; 1 Chron. 29;11; 2 Chron. 20:6; Psa. 83:18; Isa. 45:5-6; Acts 17:24) Supreme in power and superior in position to all others. King of Heaven and Earth (Psa. 47:2; 93:la; Matt. 6:13; Hev. 8:1; Rev. 4:2-3) Lydell, have you considered the ASL for King Supreme? | ||
| Lori |
Valerie, Which attribute of the 10 listed above are you most interested in? We don't have to do them in order. Lori | ||
| Valm |
I am happy to do them in any order as I need to learn about them all. Well what can I say, I am a maverick by nature. And I am much more interested in loving and respecting my God than being a servant. Sorry, I have to be truthful or I am doing a grave disservice to myself and those I speak with. In terms of Sovereignity. We do what we have to do to avoid our heads on a chopping block. But Do we love the King we are doing for? Salvation in a kingdom without being in LOVE with my GOD, is not something I desire. I wish to have the relationship akin to Song of Solomon. But to establish supremecy is important to for reasons due to my personality I can not articulate. So lets go with supremecy. I will jot down the verses and read them on my work breaks (stop signs as I am a visiting nurse) tomorrow. Actually it is a very good way to study as you can really think about the passage before moving on. Valerie | ||
| Colleentinker |
Hi, Valerie! I completely understand your feelings about God's sovereignty. I felt put off by discussions of God's sovereignty most of my life. Although I believed in it, I didn't like the mindless compliance or servility it seemed to imply. I began to see it in a completely new light when I took a class at church last year taught by Elizabeth Inrig. Her class was called "Walk Through the Old Testament", but I began to see a lot of things in a new light. One of my first insights into god's sovereignty was when she stressed that God called Abram out of Ur. Of course I knw that God called Abram. But what I had never really thought about was this: according to all the biblical evidence, Moses was a moon worshiper. The Bible clearly says his father was a moon worshiper, and there is aboslutely nothing to suggest that Abraham wasn't also. God sovereignly chose Abram out of a pagan religion, and Abram responded. He followed God out of his homeland andÖyou know the rest. I remember the day she made this comment: The ultimate "value" in the universe is God. It's not a child's life or the saving of the nations. I thought a lot about that. If God isn't really what everything is about, truly our devastating tragedies are meaningless. This is not to say God wants his people to suffer. But it is to say that God wishes to glorify himself through every grand and sordid event in our lives. If we can begin to submit the pain and uncertaianty in our lives to him, he will fill our empty hearts with himself. I have begun to view God's sovereignty as a great freedom. Richard and I have experienced many things--some of them hard to verbalize because they are abstract and some of them very tangible--that can only be explained by God's sovereign intersection of his love and power into our lives. We have begun to believe that the spiritual attacks and other problems which are continual yet always unpredictable are within his sovereign will. Nothing touches us which does not first come through the filter of God's love. God desires to glorify himself through us. He is glorified when he has the freedom to redeem the unsolvable events in our lives. One of Elizabeth's memorable quotes from that class was this: God is sovereign; God is gracious; God wastes nothing; God redeems everything we submit to him. I've come full circle in my reaction to sovereignty. I see it now as something in which I can rest. God loves me so much that he knows everything that will happen to me, and his desire is to glorify himself through the events in my life. I can trust him, and I don't have to micro-manage my world anymore! I can relax, let people be people and let God be God. He will nudge me when he wants me to act in his name; he will keep me quiet when he wants me quiet. My job is to trust him and submit to his love. Praise God for his eternal love! Colleen | ||
| Chyna |
hi Val, I've been around, not as loquacious as usual. dear Colleen, I love how you said: "God redeems everything we submit to Him." such a statement gives me such peace knowing even the one year I spent with my ex, is still part of God's plan for good. in Him, Chyna | ||
| Sherry2 |
Lydell, you know we use sign-language in our home because our daughter is hard-of-hearing? There are a number of ASL sites online that will demonstrate different signs. Just punch in the whole words of ASL in your search browser and you can find some really cool sites that way. There's also a CD available with the ASL library on it. Going to get that for our girl soon. What you said, Colleen, about His sovereignity and everything going through His filter of love, and that He will redeem everything we submit to Him is true. I've spent my share of evenings crying and pleading with God for the lives of children who are so sexually and physically abused that they could hardly if ever find him (like the 12 yr. old they found several years ago strapped to a toilet who had no speech and no skills to take care of herself she had been so abused), and I don't understand why such atrocities are allowed, and I don't mind telling Him so and crying for these children and pleading for their salvation. I always come back with knowing somehow deep in my soul that He will make all things right, and it will be more glorious then I can imagine ( though I like to try). He is God and He is Love, and His sovereigness is a part of that. | ||
| Lydell |
Lori, I don't know, hadn't thought of "king supreme" hope "supreme" is in my book! Ah HA, Well, look at what Joseph went through. When he finally met his brothers again what was his comment, "what you meant for harm, God meant for good." I don't think this is meant to say that God intends for someone to be mistreated, but that He intends that no matter what happens, He intends to use it to bring some good in our lives. And will allow nothing to touch your life that He is unable to bring good from. That, of course, comes back to the matter of choice. You either choose to let the thing consume and destroy your life, or you choose give it to Him and allow Him to redefine the whole experience. A woman who had been raped told me that the only way she got through the experience was because she knew that God would not allow it to destroy her. That He only would have allowed it if He had known that she could survive it and the aftermath. She knew that God WOULD bring some good from it someday. And mind you, we weren't having this conversation years later, but while she was still going through dealing with the aftermath. At that time it appeared that her husband had abandoned her. And several "friends" had turned their backs on her insisting that she "had asked for it"! Geez, with "friends" like that who needs enemies! Her response was, "You know what I have discovered? I now KNOW beyond all doubt who are truly my friends." That seems an extremem example, but if you stop and think about it some, I imagine you will realize that that basically is how all of us have gotten thru every rotten thing that has happened. Even those who are not saved who overcome a horrible past have come to the realization that they had to make a choice of whether or not to let an incident define the rest of their lives. As Christians, we make the choice and then we have all the power of heaven to get us to the point of the redefinition. (Durn, it's hard to spell before you've had a cup of coffee!) Sherry, now I know I can come to you a lot with those questions! Yes, I found a couple of sites. Have gone to the dictionary site alot. Still, it's fairly limited. Have "The Joy of Signing" book and that helps quite alot. The lady who is teaching me these things has worked as an interpreter in the public school system. But the signs that she knows would almost be considered kindergarten stuff, very basic. | ||
| Lori |
Valerie, Your statement "We do what we have to do to avoid our heads on a chopping block" pretty much sizes up my life as an Adventist. All my life I had heard people tell new Adventist that when you love God you just do these things (give up meat, don't wear makeup, keep the Sabbath), I knew for a fact that the reason I did what I did was because I HAD TO. It didn't stem from anything even close to love. Fear maybe, but not love. This verse has been quoted a lot--"All things work together for good for those who love God". Until a year ago I hadn't understood the full implications of this statement. There is a vast difference in Believing in Jesus Christ and Loving God. You can believe in Christ and never learn to love God. However, you miss out on all the blessings. The "all things work together for good" is only for those who love God, not for those who only believe. That is the problem with religion today our nation is full of carnal Christians. Most of them are carnal Christians in what I'm going to call "moral or legalistic reversionism". They are Christians who are so religious that they have virtually lost site of Christianity. And they are the most difficult to "fix" because they feel as though they are SO GOOD and everyone is inferior to them as Christians. These are the very people when the clear gospel message is spoken they begin to shout "cheap grace" and "you can't do THAT if your saved". This is by no means linked only to Adventist--it's everywhere. Each religion has their own list of "must do" if you are "really" saved. This is how most Christian view the Sovereignty of God and understandable so--it's fear based instead of love based. By the grace of God, I broke through that barrier of fearing God and tasted of loving God. --You learn to love God by daily time in his word. When you learn all the things that are in the mind of God, you can't help but love him! I know I've mentioned a ministers tape ministry on here before--through that ministry I learned to really LOVE God. These Bible tapes help you to learn to claim promises that are in the Bible, then you progress learning more and more until it's not just a single text that you claim, but a whole concept of a Bible doctrine. Developing a love for God is a process it doesn't happen WHEN you first believe. How do you learn to love someone you can't see? You learn absolutely everything you can about them (under the ministry of the Holy Spirit)!!! We need to make sure that whenever we study that we always have the Holy Spirit in control of our lives without His direction everything that we learn is simply intellectual knowledge. The Bible differientiates between gnosis (intellectual understanding of something) and epignosis (believing what you understand). We must "eat" the words like is says in Jeremiah-"I found your doctrines and I did eat them", only when we "eat" the words do they become epignosis and only epignosis knowledge can build a love for the Sovereign God!!! I love that term--Sovereign God--it brings a smile to my face and joy in my heart! Lori | ||
| Cindy |
Colleen, Hi! :-)) Thank-you for your words above...you put into words so much of my own thoughts. I think of you often... :-)) Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Sherry2 |
Lori, could you tell me what tape ministry this was? Sounds like you gained a lot from it. Thanks for your share. I really enjoyed it. Lydell, most of my signing is pretty basic too, as my little girl is 4, so you know...potty, candy, colors, shapes, foods, basic conversational skills is my signing at home. I have the Joy of Signing book as well. Got it at a campmeeting when I was about 14 years old. God was preparing me in advance for this day I believe when my own child would need it. :) |
