| Author | Message | ||
| Sherry2 |
Actually I think the comparison of plagues is an accurate one. Particularly more so the plague of the first born being cut off because only those Israelites who put blood on their door posts were spared. So only those who trust and apply the blood of Jesus will be spared. As far as the other questions in regards to those texts, I haven't read them in the same way that you might be seeing them so I'm not sure I understand. But anyhow...my two cents. | ||
| Draper |
How does our being referred to as the bride of Christ change things? Are does it not? Israel was referred to as the wife. WE are called the bride of Christ. In the illustration that Doug used he explained the customs of the weddings of the time. The dowry, the unexpected return of the groom, the bride taken to the grooms family for a period of time and then their subsequent return to the bride family. This would be an illustration of physical removal from the wrath that comes upon the earth. On the other hand, being spared as the Jews were spared in Egypt left them physically where the wrath of God was taking place however being unharmed by the things affecting those who chose not to believe. These two illustrations are quite different in the reality of situation. Which one is the best description of what will happen to those who believe? Thanks for your comments Sherry. And, Lori, yours is a perspective I have not considered. | ||
| Colleentinker |
I don't think we can absolutely prove a pre-tribulation rapture from the Bible. There certainly are texts that suggest it, but absolute proof isn't there. I don't know why it's not more clear, but apparently God doesn't want us to know without doubt exactly how or when the rapture will happen. Our pastor Gary Inrig gave a seven-week series on Revelation two summers ago. He is Dallas Seminary-trained, and he grew up believing in a pre-trib. rapture. He told us he still believes the Bible supports such a view, but he says he has to admit that he's less certain exactly how it will happen the more he studies. He sees some texts to suggest it may not be pre-tribulation. He hastened to add, however, that he still believes it will be pre-trib. He just has more questions. The one thing that does seem certain, however, is that we will be spared the wrath of God. Whether we are spared while being present or spared by being removed is unclear. But we will be spared. I personally find it exciting to be able to contemplate the possibility that we might be raptured away before the tribulation. I suspect that whatever happens, when things unfold we will recognize them for what they are because of the now-enigmatic passages that foretll them. Regarding "the one" in 2 Thess. 2:7, Draper, my NIV Study Bible says this, "There have been many suggestions as to the identity of this restrainer: the Roman state with its emperor, Paul's missionary work, the Jewish state, the principle of law and government embodied in the state, the Holy Spirit or the restraining ministry of the Holy Spirit through the church, and others." Praise God for saving us! Colleen | ||
| Graceambassador |
To All y'all as they say in the bayou... I can't help as I read these lasts posts above to go without getting stuck in my mind (which I like) this ol'time tune: (C'mon, put on your southern twangs...) THERE IS GOING TO BE A MEETING IN THE AIR IN THE SWEET SWEET BYE AND BYE I'M GOING TO MEET, TO MEET YOU OVERTHERE IN THAT HOME BEYOND THE SKY SUCH A SINGING YOU WILL HEAR NEVER HEARD BY MORTAL EAR T'WILL BE GLORIOUS I DO DECLARE FOR GOD'S OWN SON WILL BE THE LEADING ONE IN THAT MEETING IN THE AIR... It reminds me that I am missing a good ol' hand clapping, foot stomping, hip wiggling, testifying, devil chasing camp meeting! No theology can possibly be against that! I love it! Grace Ambassador | ||
| Draper |
I think the sequence of events about the rapture is contained in Scripture!!! It's there. Like Colleen said we may not understand it until it begins to unfold. Israel was given the sequence of events but very few of them understood them until after the fact. I think we can understand the sequence of events; I don't think that God wants us to be misinformed. I think we are uninformed because we chose to remain ignorant, we chose to decide "it's too hard, what difference does it make". I have lived in this state of mind for a lifetime (until I was exposed to the views of a little SDA lady-what she says can be very convincing and scripture she quotes can be very troubling to the mind that is not thoroughly established in Biblical truth. I know "what" I believe, I just don't always know "where" it is and "why" I link certain passages of Scripture together. It's time to find out if I believe the truth or if I have been deceived. It's not time to find Scripture that agrees with what I support; it's time to search and find out what's for real and what is taken out of context.) The devils desire is for us to remain in ignorance because this viewpoint leaves us "tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine". I don't want to be tossed to and fro; this leaves one feeling mentally unstable. Here are some things that I found on an internet site-(as we are referred to as the bride; I feel that the all references to the bride of Christ, the marriage supper, marriage are very pertinent to "when" he will "take us"). The following was copied from this site: http://www.raptureme.com/rap199.html "The Marriage Supper of the Lamb In Luke 12:36 the Word states that when Christ returns He will be returning from a wedding. In Rev. 19:7-8 we read about the marriage itself. Before the marriage takes place, there is the marriage supper. According to Jewish custom the marriage contract is drawn up first, often including a dowry. This parallels the act of faith we use when we trust Jesus to be our savior. The dowry is His life, which was used to purchase us. When the time comes for the wedding to take place, the groom goes to the bride's house unannounced, she comes out to meet him, and then the groom takes the bride to his father's house. This is an exact correlation of the events according to the pre-trib scenario. Jesus, the groom, comes down from heaven, calls up the Church, and after meeting in the air, both He and the bride return to the His Father's house - heaven. The marriage supper itself will take place up in heaven, while down here on earth the final events of the tribulation are playing themselves out. After the marriage supper takes place, the bride and groom are presented to the world as man and wife. This corresponds to the time when Jesus returns to earth accompanied by an army "clothed in fine linen, white and clean." (Rev 19:14) Armies in Fine Linen When Jesus returns, Rev. 19:18, there is an army that follows Him riding on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. In Rev. 19:8 we are told that the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. If the saints of God are returning with Christ to wage war on the Antichrist, then it is not possible to have a post-trib rapture without us running into ourselves as we are coming and going. The Five Foolish Virgins The wedding story that Jesus gave in Mat. 25:2-13, I believe, is a parable of the rapture of the Church. It explains how some will not be ready. Jesus clearly states that a group of people will miss out on some event, and will cry out to God to let them into the place where He resides - heaven. Although some try to put this parable in a post-trib context, it doesn't fit very well. The ones left behind in a post-trib rapture will not need to seek the Lord because they'll immediately be confronted by him and his army of angels." How do you all view these passages related to the bride as analogy to the sequence of events surrounding Christ coming for the Church age believers? Draper | ||
| Nate |
I am studying this out myself right now. There is so much to learn from the Bible that I have never allowed myself to see because of my SDA eyeglasses. I was always afraid to study any other way of looking at things for fear of deception. The truth is that as long as we are earnestly seeking for the Spirit of God to lead us (see Luke 11:11-13) We are safe to study and see what the Word of the Lord says without fear. God will not lead those who are earnestly seeking him into deception. What a safe perspective for study! God bless, Greg (Nate) | ||
| Lori |
I agree with you Draper! I think that God has laid out the time table of events in Scripture. I think they only become clear, like everything else, when we "earnestly seek, we find" the answers. I'm trying to study 1 Thessalonians right now. I decided that the key to understanding what Paul wrote in 2 Thes. is related to what he already wrote in 1 Thes. | ||
| Colleentinker |
Draper, what you say does make sense, particularly about the armies clothed in white linen. In other places there are passages that suggest (to me) a mid-trib rapture. I have to say it's not completely clear to me, and while I'm starting to see that a pre-trib is definitely a possibility, there are still ambiguities about the subject. I'm thankful that I can not know for sure but still be confident. That's new for me! I am confident that I am saved. I am confident that the wrath of God will not touch me. I am confident that the dead in Christ are with him until the resurrection and that they will return with him. I am confident that Jesus told the truth, and that he will return and we will know him and welcome him! I am also confident that He will continue to teach me. Colleen | ||
| Lydell |
As you say Colleen, the important thing is in knowing that the wrath of God will not touch us, no matter how the final events unfold. I'd like to step in and inject a word of caution into this discussion. As former SDA's we can have a tendency to run back to our old mindset whenever the subject of the rapture and end time events come up. Some of us are very nearly addicted to the subject. As SDA's we were viewing these things as being SO IMPORTANT, as in EVERYTHING depends on an understanding of them. And now we know that it isn't true at all. It seems that the further we get from the denomination, the more clear it becomes that SDA's are absolutely obsessed with endtime events. In our search to shuck the old untruths, it is awfully easy to again get obsessed with trying to untangle endtime events. Nothing at all wrong with looking at them.....unless it gets in the way of examining those things that are of greater importance to understand in your life right now (grace vs. law, walking by faith not sight, assurance of salvation, who we are in Christ, etc.). If you find yourself trying to relate an understanding of the new light you are finding to what you "know" to be truth about final events, then you have placed yourself into a position of knowing nothing. Never ever forget to keep your understanding of the basics locked onto the clear statements in scripture. And never ever forget that you still can be wrong about what you believe to be the final days/years of earths history. There is SO much in Revelations that is hazy, and we aren't going to know before we get there. When we get our "understanding" of those things locked in cement, it is awfully easy to follow the SDA's into an arrogant attitude of blocking out brothers and sisters in Christ because they don't agree with us. Hokay, back to the discussion. | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dear Lydell and all: Lydell's statement is wise: In our search to shuck the old untruths, it is awfully easy to again get obsessed with trying to untangle endtime events. Nothing at all wrong with looking at them.....unless it gets in the way of examining those things that are of greater importance to understand in your life right now (grace vs. law, walking by faith not sight, assurance of salvation, who we are in Christ, etc.) I hold strong opinions about the subject of eschatololy, but you will hardly see me discussing it to the degree I discuss other issues. The reason is what you state above. I believe the statement of Paul: "About the eschatology (the end time events), I WILL NOT HAVE YOU IGNORANT." I would suggest, however, that between not being ignorant and being an "expert" there is a vast difference". The pursuit of expertise in eschatology has led many denominations to dwell in the other extreme of those who look in the past. I explain: Ephesians 2: Paul says "in times past" - this is the law. People who look to the "times past" are like those who drive their cars looking in the rearview mirror. They will CRASH! Paul also says "in the ages to come" - this is the future. People who look to far ahead are like those who drive their cars looking too far in the horizon and can't see what is immediately ahead of them. They will also CRASH! Paul further says "but now". This is the time that we should be doing the things that you mentioned in the last sentence of your quote (grace vs. law, walking by faith not sight, assurance of salvation, who we are in Christ, etc.). Again, many of us here could probably become a Hal Lindsey, Dr. Breese, Jack Van Imp or a few others in the issue of "eschatology". I, however, would prefer to "know about it, praise God about it, expect God's providence in faith and enjoy Grace! By the way, I repeat that I have a very strong opinion on the subject based upon studying the main stream teachings about it. I believe, however, that we should "comfort one another with these words", as Paul commands us, (this is in context of eschatology) and know that God is God and that He will always will be God (my, another tent meeting song...). As Lydell said: "back to the discussion". Grace Ambassador | ||
| Colleentinker |
Lydell and Grace Ambassador, I agree! Praise God the end will not be like we thought it would be! Praise God our future is assured! Praise God we will know what we need to know when we need to know it if we stay open and seeking Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Sherry2 |
Greg, glad to hear of your studies. I totally relate to the fear, and now being able to study openly with no fear. God promises to teach us if we seek Him. I found that freedom truly awesome too. Sometimes I would vascilate between what I thought was truth, and what I saw in the Word, and would have to question myself about the context of the text, reading chapters and books in totality instead of picking and chosing verses, and then really getting into the meat of things. What does God's Word tell you vs. what does God tell you with EGW twist on things. I mean, for me, before leaving SDAism meant if I didn't understand a text I would turn to the SDA concordance and then the statements made by EGW in regards to that statement. Now it's being led by the Spirit and studying in context, learning to understand what the greek/hebrew meant, and digging into the Word to answer the Word, chapter by chapter, book by book. It is awesome to study things without fear. Totally Awesome! Perfect love casts out fear. As an SDA I couldn't fathom that verse. Now I know what it means from experience. Jesus leads our footsteps as we seek to know Him more. | ||
| Draper |
Grace Ambassador, You say that you have a very strong opinion of the subject of endtimes/rapture. Would you share your viewpoint? Draper | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dear Draper: Yup! But there is no reason to "lose any joy" over it. Because of the basis of my Grace beliefs: This is the way it should be without Grace/Jesus CREATION ABRAHAM LAW PROPHETS WRATH In Jesus we have the hiatus called Grace, thus it turns this way: CREATION ABRAHAM LAW PROPHETS GRACE CHURCH OUT OF HERE - GRACE PERIOD OVER WRATH I use a big biblical chart to explain this where Grace is "hidden" and only the part until WRATH appears is visible. The chart contains scritural evidence of each point. Then I unfold the chart and Grace, the MYSTERY HIDDEN THROUGH THE AGES appears between Prophets and Wrath and then I place all my scriptural foundation for it. (I did not create this chart. It was another Grace teacher who believes the supremacy of the Mystery hidden through the ages as I do). Colossians 1:18-29 I wrote about these positions before in this forum in not "so many details" and I do not feel that I should defend my position again other than to say that I am NOT A SOCOFIELDIAN DISPENSATIONALIST. I maintain that the WISEST THING SAID SO FAR is what Lydell and Colleen said above! I have witenessed too many churches failing miserably in their mission because of their obsession for eschatology. Of course I teach my congregation about it "so as not to have them ignorant", as Paul said, but without forcing them to become experts. It is different from "Soteriology" for example, that I think there is definite and irrefutable teaching in the entire Bible. Again, no reason to lose your joy over my position. Right now I am enjoying the fulfillment of God's promise and THE PROMISE HIMSELF: Jesus! I hope you understand my approach of not arguing too much about it without completely despising it! In a way all of you are right. Remember, God already revealed to us the Mystery that He promised: Jesus and His Grace - "Christ in us the Hope of Glory!" Colossians 1:26-28. If God decided that it would be important for Him to have revealed just that, it is because this is the only important thing to reveal and the only important thing we should know. One may argue that Jesus spoke frequently about eschatology and so did Paul. This is true, but when asked point blank about the end times Jesus said that this "was not for us to know", but answered rather THAT WE WOULD RECEIVE POWER FROM ON HIGH TO BE HIS WITNESS - Acts 1. Power is what we get from Jesus as a priority and not knowledge about the end time. In another thread, I wrote about "disguises" (as in king Saul disguising himself to see the medium and stripping himself of his royalty). I believe one of the most frequently used disguises today in "churches" is "eschatological knowledge". Jesus' priority is that we RECEIVE POWER FROM ON HIGH (Acts 1), but since these "churches" can't have it, or reject it, they "disguise" their lack thereof with "eschatological knowledge" Capice? We can discuss all we want, it is okay, but we can, while we do it, waste our time in NOT enjoying His wonderful Grace. There are plenty of good authors and good books that one can read about this issue. Check them out! Sorry for the long answer which is a no answer... Grace Ambassador | ||
| Windmotion |
My husband and I were having one of those really late night discussions that drifted over into endtime prophecy. His point was that since God put Revelations into the Bible, then He must have wanted Christians to understand what it meant. (the underlying message being that God told Adventists what it meant)I had a flash of insight (or Godsight) and asked him why so few Jews recognized Jesus while he was on earth. Why did God put so many Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament? (If the Jews had realized Messiah Jesus needed to be sacrificed, would they still have called for it? hmmm)I told him I think the prophecies are there for those who needed confirmation of who Jesus was AFTER he was gone. The apostles favorite message in the New Testament it seems is revealing the presence of Jesus in the Old Testament, esp. in Matthew, Acts and Hebrews. Along the same line, I told him I believe Revelation was written for the people in the end times (not the SDA end times which have been going on for 150 plus years but the actual years of the Tribulation). I don't particularly care for the Left Behind series or movie, but one part I remember is one of the main characters studying end time prophecy, and realizing it was being fulfilled with current events. One of the saddest images in the Bible for me is the Jews studying the Torah their whole lives to be prepared for the coming of the Messiah, and then not even recognizing Him when He came. Is it possible that some people may be so set in their opinions of endtime prophecy that they may not recognize the endtimes when they are living in them? Revelations is not a terribly practical book, at least not along the same line as the epistles, and all Christians have today are guesses as to what everything means. Some of the guesses are better than others, but you cannot figure out the whole plot of a book from reading the last few pages (which I never do). All the last few pages tell you are who the good and bad guys are, and who lives happily ever after with whom. In Revelation we see Jesus as the good guy, Satan as the bad guy, and Christians living happily ever after in Heaven with Jesus. What a treasure!! There is no Great Controversy in Heaven. The last page of the book has already been written. Someday we will all worship together before God's Throne, where there will be no weeping, or death or pain. If Revelations is meant for us, it is so we will never lose sight of that fact. --Hannah | ||
| Draper |
From the Adventist background have you ever noticed how the book of RevelatioN always is called RevelatioNS!!! It's never a singular RevelatioN; it's a plural RevelatioNS. The little Adventist lady I have spoken with the most concerning doctrines always calls it RevelationS!! I finally understood why after she invited me to her home for lunch. The collection of books that she had by Ellen White was staggering (there isn't any way that this E.W. was the lesser light leading to the greater light--the Bible is just ONE book; this E.W.'s books had to have numbered at least 40!) She's right she does have RevelationS!! But I'll get back to my point that I want to make here today: I don't understand the great hestitancy of those who post here to take a stand on what they think will happen concerning end time prophecy. I'm not looking at it to make a set in stone decision that can not be swayed. It almost seems as though very few of you are willing to take a stand on an issue. As though you are deathly afraid you will ruffle someones feathers and they will take an argumentive stance. Takes two to argue. If they argue and you don't argue back their is not any argument. Course, I suppose you feel if you don't argue back then you look weak or you look wrong. Who cares??? I'm not here to argue. I'm here asking how you perceive end time prophecy. I've been in all kinds of churches; my family never had a fence between us and another denomination. All denominations have some truth in them and their is not a denomination that has ALL truth, all have some sort of heresy because all religion is here on earth and it's all been tampered with, by man if not by Satan himself. I've been in Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran and now Adventist congregations. I move around, due to my work; I'm always in small towns and more often than not you don't always have the selection of your prefered "brand" of church so you go to a different one. This time around I have landed in the Adventist community. I've learned about lots of different doctrines in this way. (Doesn't mean I believe them all; just means I understand them. I understand why Buddhist are Buddhist, but I don't believe it's true. Same thing with some folks brand of Christianity, I can understand why they feel that way but after you examine those understandings against the Word then you know what to do with them. You either replace them with what you thought was true because they were right or you file them under a deception and you move on. No need to argue about it with them, you just do what you have to do and move on. Now maybe that's easy for me because I literally do move on!! I don't have to hang around and constantly be in the face of the person I have "in my mind" trashed their beliefs. Course, I ain't told them that I "trashed" their belief. That's between me and God, ain't none of their business and what they do ain't none of my business). In the end time events, I haven't made a decision. I'm looking at all the options and I'm trying to see why people believe what they believe and you people here aside from Doug aren't willing to share any Biblical evidence concerning what you believe. I know you all have varied opinions and that's what I'm looking for. I'm not going to jump on any of you for stating what you believe. I thought Grace Ambassador was going to step out there with his view but all he did was insert Grace and the church is out of here but that didn't tell me why he believes that. The rapture is indeed part of the mystery doctrine. As many of the things revealed in the NT are. Come on guys, if you won't give me your opinions and some Biblical principles and texts behind them then I'll move on to another forum where they will. I came here for a little bit of information about the Adventist denomination that I encountered because the red flags were popping up everywhere during the first sermon I heard--I feel as though all of you have held me at arms length when I have asked questions you have supplied vague answers to them. Some of them to the point that in your vagueness you supplied nothing at all. Perhaps I'm asking for something that you guys simply can not provide me, really don't matter much anyway. It's time for me to move on and this little Adventist atmosphere will be a memory instead of the present reality. I'll be on the road for the next few days without computer access so I'll check back in when I get settled in my new temporary abode. I know you all have opinions about the end time events. What are they??? | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dear Draper: I can deeply appreciated your quest and commend you for it. Just for your information: I am probably the ONLY ONE (I think) in this forum that has never been a SDA. I was born and killed a Baptist and now, nearing 50, I am an independent minister with a vast background in Bible, cults, and Internet deception. Also (I am an oximoronic "specialist in generalities...) I have a portfolio size resumÈ that I will have to dump in the trash can located right by the Eastern Perly Gates. In order not to waste time and to speed up my entrance through these Gates, I have ALREADY disposed of such resumÈ here on earth. I sensed you were looking for opinions from formers. As such, I cannot help. Also as you said, "it takes two to argue" and I have decided that I am not going to argue about if I should argue or not this issue. It is not that I do not want to argue the issue itself: it is that I do not an argument about arguing about it. As I said, there are good authors about it. In my humble opinion, because of the danger of entrapment and others, INTERNET FORUMS are a very poor venue to discuss eschatology. This is a subject that cults will use to spread their junk, people play innocent truth seekers and then they feel that they have the right to subtly insert their cultistic views. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING, but Jesus tells me to be "as SIMPLE as doves and as WISE as serpents. These are some authors that you can check: HAL LINDSEY: The Agony of Planet Earth TIM LAHAYE: (whatever he writes...) and many more... (my recommendation does not necessarily imply agreement with their writing in any way, shape or form) also you can check Bible Manuals from any major main stream Theological Institute, such as Moody Bible College and a few others. The above is the way I end my cooperation to your quest. I pray that God will help you find the answers you are looking for. Amen. Grace Ambassador | ||
| Windmotion |
Dear Draper, I also have never been an Adventist, but since I happen to live with one (whom I dearly hope will some day leave adventism behind), I have learned to choose my battles carefully (or else my entire marriage would be a battlefield) Of all the major differences that Adventism has with the rest of Christianity, (i.e. prophetic abilities of EGW, the Sabbath, the Investigative Judgment) this is the one that matters the least to me. I don't think any two people outside of Adventism believe the exact same thing about end time prophecy. Adventists are very fond of their prophetic interpretations. The point of leaving Adventism is that you can reject their interpretations of the Bible, not that there are better ones to be equally as expounded upon in their place. --Hannah | ||
| Colleentinker |
Draper, I'm not posting my opinions re: eschatology because I'm frankly not certain how I think things will happen. I just don't know. I can tell you that my views began to diverge wildly with my deeply ingrained Adventist eschatology (which just happens to be one of Adventism's most cherished points of pride) when my husband and I read and studied the book of Revelation with our Christian neighbors over a period of a few months. The entire book began to open our eyes to the falsehood we had been taught, but while our eyes were opening, we were only receiving hints of possible realities. The one reality we took away from Revelation was that the book is a revelation of Jesus, not of eschatology. We realized by the time we finished the book that Jesus will always be with his people (as opposed to the way we were taught which said we would have to stand without a mediator during the time of trouble). We realized that the millenium is not going to be spent in heaven as we had been taught, with Satan being imprisoned on an empty earth. Revelation 20 was for us a window opening onto truth we had never seen before. We also took away from our study a growing suspicion (which has increased to a reasonable certainty) that Jesus will yet deal with the Jews. We had been taught that Adventists were spiritual Israel and that we replaced Israel as God's people. Their chances as a people were over. We also discovered as we read Revelation that we would not be touched by the wrath of God. As Adventists we were taught that we would certainly be on the earth during the "time of trouble" and that we would be fleeing for our lives and agonizing over possible unconfessed sins which might yet keep us out of heaven. So, Draper, many of us former Adventists are not saying what we think because we are not seeing Biblical evidence to PROVE beyond doubt a certain scenario. Rather, we are finding in the Bible freedom from a rigid, locked-in-stone belief that held most of us in grips of fear. We are so RELIEVED that we don't have to have a certain belief when we don't have beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt texts to prove something that we are just rejoicing in our freedom. Yes, I see evidence to suggest the rapture may take the church out of the world before the tribulation. Yes, I also see evidence to suggest we may be here for part of the tribulation but not the end of it. Yes, I can even see that texts may suggest we're here for all of the tribulation without God's wrath actually touching us. No, I can't tell you what I believe because I'm not sure. And I'm thrilled that I don't have to embrace a certain belief when I can't find irrefutable texts to support it. (But I am beginning to suspect that the church may be raptured out. But again, I'm content to wait and see! I have no opinion to defend on this subject!) Praising God for the certainty of his protection and salvation, Colleen | ||
| Nate |
Draper, I am a former SDA minister. Just barely former by a little over a week. While I have been in process for much longer than that, I still am reeling from the paradygm shift. For many of us Formers, there is a whole new world of study out there. It takes time for new ideas and truths to become convictions. Many of us have been programmed to read materials a certain way all our lives. Just to say, "I don't know" all the detalis of the eschatological sequence is a big step for some of us. We were taught we knew it all! I do not exagerate! I find this forum a safe place for me to explore new ideas that I am studying in the Word, and know that I do not have to see it the same way as another. I have acceptance and community even if I do not agree with someone else. I believe that is what this forum is trying to bring about. It is a bit like a clothing store. You can encounter various beliefs and concepts, try them on and choose to take a closer look if the desire is there. One might try on several outfits to see how they feel. The emphasis is on Safety. There is no way to describe to someone who did not grow up in or was not deeply rooted in Adventism. The amount of guilt and control associated with exploring views outside the box is hard to describe. This is why there is such a sensitivity against over expressing ones convictions as I see it. I speak for myself. Finally, Jesus made it clear in each of the synoptic Gospels that He could come at any time. I am personally afraid of getting too dogmatic on any scenario of eschatology that might in anyway take away from the possibility that the Lord might return today! I long for just such a welcome surprise. In Christ, Expecting His soon Return! Greg (nate) |
