| Author |
Message |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 75
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |     |
At this time The Holy Spirit or God or whatever it is is telling me that I need to keep Gods word! And not follow mans ways. Am I being lied to by God? This can not be satan telling me to follow Gods word. Why would satan say to follow Gods way when it leads to God himself? I just know I am very confused and have been ever since I was shown that the law is not to be followed. I need to make sure that I am not going to fry in Hell if I break almost all of Gods word. God touches in the bible about people telling you and teaching you to not keep the commandments of God and follow man's way. This all is very frieghtening to me.
speakeasy |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 314
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 12:55 pm: | |
Speakeasy, I know you have been struggling with the law issue for a long time. I'll tell you honestly what I think you may need to do. I had to do this very thing to a certain degree as I left Adventism.
You say you have accepted Jesus as your Savior. You will never know the security of your salvation if you continue to try to "figure out" what you have to do now. You have to be willing to surrender the law--let it go, give it back to God and stop making it your responsibility--and trust Jesus alone. As long as you hang onto the law with one hand and grasp Jesus with the other, you are stuck in a sort-of "no-man's-land" where you cannot truly live.
Speakeasy, commit to Jesus all your fears and unknowns. Tell Him you're willing to give up the law, and ask Him to put His Spirit in the place in your heart where you have honored the law, and allow Him to witness to you of Jesus. When you are tempted to fear that you must "keep the law", instead ask Jesus to hold you and to keep you safe in grace and surrender.
If you hold onto the law with one hand, you cannot hold onto Jesus with all of yourself. You are dividing your loyalty. Jesus came to fulfill the law, and as God told Peter, James, and John on the Mount of Transfiguration, "This is my Son; listen to Him." When the disciples looked up, the law and the prophets were gone, and Jesus alone stood before them. If you continue to cling to the law, you are not being true to Jesus and his sacrifice for you. You are, in effect, saying to Him, "Yes, I know I need you, but what if You're not enough? What if I need the law? I can't trust You!"
Remember, Jesus is God. He is greater than the law! He is all you need. You no loner need the shadow of Him. I believe you also need to stop (if you haven't already) discussing this issue with people who do believe the law is important. Instead, commit to reading the new Testament only for at least a month. Read Galatians every day, and read the book of John. Ask God to teach you through His Spirit, and surrender your fear to Him. Let Him show you His sufficiency for you, and be willing to give up the law for the sake of Christ.
With prayers for you,
Colleen |
Praisegod
Registered user
Username: Praisegod
Post Number: 90
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 19, 2004 - 5:27 am: | |
Speakeasy, any thoughts that you have that equal grace + works = salvation are NOT from the Holy Spirit. When you are saying the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you have to keep laws in order to have salvation, that is not in line with the New Testament. That is a lie from Satan and is what is bringing on your confusion. I agree with Colleen, immerse yourself in the New Testament. If you don't have several versions of the Bible, go to biblegateway.com and read the same passage in various more modern translations so it really starts to permeate your soul.
My guess is that you still have a lot of feelings of shame left as opposed to proper guilt that the Holy Spirit uses to help you recognize sin. The difference: guilt helps you say "I did something bad." Shame wants you to say, "I am a bad person."
Colleen, perhaps you could repost what you have said before about having to renounce the spirit of Adventism. Perhaps that's an issue here?
Praise God... |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 321
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 11:50 am: | |
Good point, Praisegod--I know that your background , Speakeasy, is not just Adventist but also Messianic Jewish. (I also realize that there are different groups of Messianic Jews with differing theological understandings and emphases.) The point is that your background, Speakeasy, was one that insisted that the law must be observed in addition to accepting Jesus. That belief is the heresy of Galatianism--it's the heresy Paul wrote against in the book of Galatians. He called the teaching that the law was essential for Christians who were empowered by the Holy Spirit "another gospel".
Whenever such heresy is taught, it does not come from God. Satan is the author of deception; he desires that we be in bondage, confusion, and anxiety. Any teaching that pulls us back to the law and away from total dependence upon Christ is heresy.
Speakeasy, if you have truly accepted Jesus and surrendered your heart and mind to him, ask God to replace the spirit of legalism and deception with the Holy Spirit. Ask Him to take away the spirit of confusion and to replace it with the Holy Spirit in the place in your heart where the old spirit used to live.
God is faithful; he desires to give us good gifts, and Jesus said the Father delights to give us the Holy Spirit. He can clear up your confusion if you're willing to surrender the old beliefs for the truth of Jesus and the personal ministry of the Holy Spirit.
With prayers for you,
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 155
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 8:31 am: | |
Speakeasy, Satan will use the Bible to distract you if it is for his purpose. Look how he quoted Bible texts to Jesus when he tempted him after the forty days of fasting and praying.
So, ask God, when you are feeling guilty or what ever it is you are feeling, to fill you with His Holy Spirit, then, even if you do not feel a thing, thank God for doing as He promised to do, to give you the Holy Spirit.
And thank God for all the good things He has done for you.
For myself, when I dwell on the things I have not done or should do or on my past sins, Satan steps in and gives me more negative thoughts. When I am thanking God for all the good things, as well as the lessons I have learned (even when I did not like them)I am dwelling on God, my focus is on Him and not on me.
I will pray for you.
Diana |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 80
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 2:41 pm: | |
I have really re-read all of the posts on this thread ever since I chimmed in a week or so ago. I have like you said Colleen just turned away from the law and etc. I have done this Monday of this week and I ever since then have felt like throwing up. I know I have turned my Back on God himself in doing this. And I have turned my back on what the bible actually says to do. I am really trusting people's view on this. And even though I see scripture that fully counterdicts what people say on this forum. I am really struggling on this.
You guys are hard to follow in why you worship God the way you do. I hope God will show me the same things that he has you. I don't want to die and then find out then. At that time it will be to late by then. f I am not supposed to obey a big chunk of the bible. Then what verses am I suppossed to obey and follow? And then what part of the bible is Faults and not to be followed. How do I know what part of the bible is untrue for me? I need some tyoe of list to tell me these things.
I don't understand why God would change so much ?
So I am REALLY tying snd praying to God as well.
speakeasy |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 326
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 2:55 pm: | |
Speakeasy, click on "last Day" and read the thread, "Is Yeshua of Nazareth YHVH?"
In in Chris makes a very good point about Adventism not taking Jesus or the writings of the New Testament as seriously as the Old Testament because the early Adventists did not truly believe Jesus was the very God of the Universe. Similarly, they didn't believe his teachings or those of the apostles to be as significant as the words of the Old Testament because the Old Testament came from God.
Many Messianic Jewish groups may similarly have a low view of Jesus. Do you, Speakeasy, believe that Yeshua of Nazareth is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Colleen |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 83
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 6:04 pm: | |
The God of Abraham ,Isacc and Jacob is the back bone of following the one true God. I believe in one God and only one. Before God and after him there is no other. The Messianic's I was with did not teach that the Old Testament was lesser.
Guys I am just so frustrated at this time. I need to check all of what you are saying and doing is true. I need to find in the bible that I can go against Gods Law. I need to see if I can not observe and believe in his word. Or do I take God at his word and Believe what he said he will do. He will do. I have never been told or ever read in the Bible or the Targums that a person can go against what God said. But I am trying my hardest to believe what you are saying.
speakeasy |
Lydell
Registered user
Username: Lydell
Post Number: 608
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:41 am: | |
What is the Targums?! |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 88
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:09 am: | |
The Targum in a nut shell. Is the Hebrew translation of the Old Testament in Aramaic. Many not all Synagogues and Jewish schools use the Targums and do not and would never use the American English translation. Some Christian Scholors say this is were we get our English translation of the Old Testament. But this is faults. In the Targums our bible would have many things missing if our Old Testament did come from the Targums. The Hebrew school of Learning in Jeruslam states the Targums is what was found in the Dead Sea scrolls and in hill #39 were in the 1950's were a little boy found an almost fully intact Targum.
This is why we should all study the history of the English translated bible that we have. Not saying anything in the last sentince.
speakeasy |
Sharon2
Registered user
Username: Sharon2
Post Number: 37
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:34 pm: | |
Speakeasy,
I have been a member of a Messianic Jewish Congregation for more than 10 years now and before I offer you a little council, I would like to know are you Jewish? What I am really asking is are the things you are dealing with both cultural and scriptural or just scriptural?
I could probably carry on a very in-depth dialog with you about this because I am very aware of the fact that Messianic Judaism is only about 50 years old. Because it is so young, there are still a lot of issues that are areas of struggle in some congregations more than others. Identity is still developing. If you get over my head in the Jewish writings, I can refer you to people who are very knowledgeable and at the same time have a solid understanding of Salvation through the blood of Jesus and that alone.
My e-mail address is slin108@aol.com
Sharon
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