| Author |
Message |
Praisegod
Registered user
Username: Praisegod
Post Number: 121
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:47 pm: |     |
I canít remember where I saw it, but recently I read something along the line that we are often confused about faith. We tend to say it is the same as belief or an intellectual assent, when really it should be that we have faith meaning we trust. It seems you are struggling with this sense of really putting your trust in Jesus. With trust comes an inner quietness, a peace.
Speakeasy, itís puzzling to me that while everyone is trying to help you the very best they can, you say that they are giving additional points. What Iíve heard overall is that the core issue is the pure Gospelóthe life, death and resurrection of Jesus. Salvation is all about Jesus.
With researching the list you asked about, you could gain additional information. But it seems much of this would only muddy the water. I believe most of us here have come to realize that we wonít know exactly every specific detail of things, for instance the rapture, but that it is ok because it is not a salvation issue. For me, I had to be exactly right as SDA. Now Iím perfectly willing to accept that Godís ways are higher than manís ways and I just donít know about many things that used to be highly important to me. As I study, God is gradually teaching me new things, but itís not disturbing my peace nor impacting my salvation because itís not all clear right now.
I pray this will become true for you: John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Praise GodÖ
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Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 119
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 5:41 am: | |
Raven my email address is speakeasyarchive@yahoo.com I really do not want to post what I believe about the trinity or my other concerns in front of everybody. if you want to know what I really believe you can email me. anybody else can do the same.
speakeasy |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 120
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 6:31 am: | |
So were do you go for the ABC's of the Trinity. The bible to me just doesn't show or explain it to me. So I can understand it and see it. Books,web sites,Video's, etc. Anything would be great.
Speakesy |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 46
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 7:07 am: | |
Speakeasy,
I'll look into that and let you know what I find out. Probably someone else on here already knows some good books that explain it, but I'll check too. By the way, I sent you an e-mail. |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 121
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 1:13 pm: | |
So in your opinion. If a person rejects the Trinity or does not Believe in the Trinity. But Does except Jesus as there messiah and except his death for there forgiveness. Is that person still saved if he rejects the Trinity? Or is it a must to except the Trinity in order to be saved?
Please only a Yes you must except the Trinity to be saved or No you don't have to except the Trinity to be saved.
Speakeasy |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 735
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 1:38 pm: | |
I believe the answer is yes, you must accept the Trinity, because otherwise you do not believe the God found in the Bible. All three are equally Persons of God; all three work together in our salvation and sactification. All three call us and know us and save us and change us. The Bible consistently and repeatedly links the three in all the processes of our life in God. If you don't believe in the Trinity, you cannot believe in Jesus being equal to the Father and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, nor can you believe in God Himself indwelling all who accept the death of Jesus as their atonement.
I believe the answer is "yes" on this side of the cross.
Colleen |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 736
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 1:42 pm: | |
I just want to add an addendum to the previous post--if a person has no access to the Bible and has not had an opportunity to learn about the Trinity, then I believe God can reveal Himself to that person in such a way that they can say "yes" to following and knowing truth as God leads them and thus be saved without knowing the term "Trinity". But I also believe that God will guide that person into a knowledge of the Son and the Holy Spirit.
For those of us with knowledge and access to Bibles, however, the Trinity is an essential belief.
Colleen |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 48
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 2:28 pm: | |
Speakeasy,
I can see what Colleen is saying, but as I said before, I had never really thought about whether or not it was a requirement because I've always just believed it. I found a book that interests me from amazon.com, called "Making Sense of the Trinity" by Millard J. Erickson. I'm planning to get that book, because the sample pages I read from the website looked excellent. I found the following quote from a book review about this book: "...this is an outstanding beginner level book that not only takes on basic questions with easy to follow answers, but also digs a bit to take on more difficult questions both Biblically and philosophically. An outstanding resource for one who wants to become firmly rooted in the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity." Does anyone else know if that's a good book?
I also wanted to bring up another thought that came to my mind in thinking over the recent posts. It looks like it is very important to you to make sure you understand the correct doctrines in order to be saved and avoid hell. I have to admit that years ago, when I first decided I wanted to follow God, it was "to be saved." Eventually, I realized that I had slowly come to the point (I'm sure it was the leading of the Holy Spirit) where I know in my heart I am truly choosing Jesus not necessarily to be saved, but because I love the ways of Jesus and I hate the ways of the devil. I can also say at this time, that if God were to see fit that I should go to hell and not to heaven, even though I thought I had chosen God, I would accept it fully. I trust God that much, that His decision is completely acceptable to me. It seems that if I were to try so hard to make sure I did whatever I needed to, or understood whatever I needed to, then it would be me (and not God) saving me--and that's not possible! It would also seem like I wasn't fully accepting God's judgement of me. I think God is longing for people who completely love Him and all He stands for, not people who are just trying to avoid Hell. Obviously, I can't read your heart and neither can anyone else. I just wanted to express my viewpoints on that issue. |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 389
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 2:37 pm: | |
Speakeasy, we are called to worship God in spirit and in TRUTH. I believe that worshiping a God of our own making, instead of the One revealed to us in scripture, is idolatry. Trusting in a false Jesus, instead of the true One revelaed to us in scripture, cannot give us an assurance of salvation.
I think you may be getting too caught up in the term "Trinity". This term is just short-hand for the truths that God has revealed about Himself to us through His Word. So instead of saying "How can I understand the Trinity?" (something no finite human could ever fully comprehend), try saying, "I want to discover what God really reveals about Himself in scripture, even if I don't fully understand it all".
Three major truths that God reveals about Himself as a Being are as follows:
1) There is only one God.
2) The Father, Son (Jesus), and Spirit are eternally personally distinct.
3) The Father is God, the Son (Jesus) is God, the Spirit is God.
My guess is that you have little or no problem with numbers 1 & 2, but you struggle with #3. I am happy to discuss anyone of these three points with you and provide you with scriptures for each one as long as you are willing to continue a 2-way conversation that interacts directly with the scriptures given.
I have already given you links to a website that can help you with point #3. If you would like a brief overview of these three truths and why they matter, you might check this out: http://www.equip.org/free/DT250.htm
Here is a very nice listing of scriptures that teach these 3 thruths:
http://www.equip.org/free/DT160.htm
May the Spirit guide your heart and mind as you study. As always, I am more than willing to discuss who Jesus really is. Without an understanding of His sovereignty, all sufficiency, and deity, very little about the new covenant will ever make sense.
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Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 49
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 2:59 pm: | |
Speakeasy,
I don't know if you've come across this website before, but I just read this and thought it might be helpful for you.
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/qa/threegods.htm |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 203
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 10:14 am: | |
speakeasy,
re-read Gen 1
Let US make man in OUR image.....
We are in God's image. He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit we are Mind, body and spirit. Father representing the mind, Son representing the body (came in the flesh) and spirit representing our spirit.
We are still just one whole.
Does that help? |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 122
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 10:58 am: | |
Keep in mind when Moses was writting this he was writting to the people of Israel and he was saying to them that we you and I are in his image. We are made just like him. with emotions and feelings with word and with thought.
Just like when the Queen said "We are not amused" The we does not mean us or our. When she said 'We are not amused" She ment she (Hereself) was not amused. I doubt that you will believe me so If you are really interested in this do a search on the Hebrew of this and go to the Jewish scholars and see what is the true wording. Or at least what the rabbi and Jewish Scholars say. If you go to the christian search sites about this subject you will not get what I am talking about. A true Hebrew rabbincal text will help you solve this question.
I am not saying there eather side is wrong or write. But there is really no way of saying this is exactly what is ment. It will just be a thing after your studyes you will have to decide. The jury for me is still out.
speakeasy |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 204
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 12:40 pm: | |
Oh good grief. If there is no trinity explain how Jesus was praying to God while here.
Let me let you in on a secret: The Jewish writers do not beleive in Jesus. IF that is the route you want to go, free will my friend. The only unpardonable sin is rejection of the Holy Spirit and you can't reject Him if He doesn't exist.
I suggest you get on your knees and cry out to God for truth before it is too late. There is not enough time for all of this double-minded waivering. Today is the day of salvation.
The jury adjurned (sp?) 2000 years ago and the verdict was in favor of The Christ. |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 124
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 12:17 pm: | |
As I said before I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. There is no doubt that he is the Christ. I have not rejected anything. If you read above and see what I have been saying. I want to know and understand what you all are understanding about the trinity. I have asked 4 times for web sites or Books or Video's or threads on this forum to help me underdstand this topic.
I don't know what else I can say. If you understand what this topic is. And understand it to the degree you and many people do. Then you need to show me what got you to the leval of where you are. It was like there was a time that it toke me 7 years to even admit that Jesus was the Messiah. But over that time I got people to help me and showing me why Jesus was the Christ. It did not happen over night. Then it toke me along time after being in the Judaistic background to understand why I even needed to have salvation. And then It toke me along time to even believe I was a sinner outside of G-ds Laws and promises. It also to a while a few months before I even talked to a believer because I was taught that a christian was a part of a cult.
Sabra I am NOT picking on you. But I can tell you have and many others have been raised in the Christian church all of your lives. But for me my back ground for 20 years was not. So you need to understand you do not understand where I am coming from on my questions. And I have to understand that I am not making my statements and questions very clear and that is MY fault. And I will try to do better.
What do I do with these types of verses?
John 20:17
John 14: 28
1 Corinthians 11:3
1 Corinthians 15:27-28
these are just some of the verses I am having problems with. When People say that Jesus is G-d But these scriptures say the other.
I need all of your help that read this post. I am very close to almost grasping something but do not know what it is. I just can not get over the hump. Do you understand what I am saying? Any help from anybody would be great.
SORRY for the posts that I was NOT making my point clear at all. I truly want to see what you guys see on the Trinity Topic. I do except the trinity only on the views that you must except it. But I just don't see it yet or understand it when there are many many verses like these above.
Yes I do feal like I am NOT ready for the coming of the Lord. Because of this Topic. I have a heavy heart and I am being told that I am not saved by G-d himself because I even bring this topic to all to see.
I am just a TRULY struggling person on this subject.
Thanks for any help!!!
speakeasy |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 125
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 1:54 pm: | |
colleen My email is speakeasyarchive@yahoo.com if you can please email me.
thanks
speakeasy |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 50
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 2:19 pm: | |
As I said in previous recent posts, this looks like a great book, and I'm getting it:
"Making Sense of the Trinity" by Millard J. Erickson
And this looks like a good website from the perspective of Christians with a Jewish background:
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/qa/threegods.htm
I don't think I have enough of a theological background to be able to have a solid answer regarding the verses most recently mentioned, but I did look them up. My only thoughts at this time are that John 20:17 reminds me of Psalms 110:1 where it says "The Lord said to My Lord..." and that is referenced again in Hebrews 1:13 where that whole chapter is clearly talking about Christ. It's interesting that it seems God the Father can be called "Lord" and call Jesus "Lord", which makes it sound similar to John 20:17 where Jesus is calling the Father "My God".
The other verses are more stumpers to me. I can only suggest that maybe it has to do with the role and function each member of the Godhead has taken rather than whether or not they are equal to each other in substance. Anybody else have additional insights? |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 126
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 3:17 pm: | |
So am I saved? How do I know I am saved. I am very stressed out on this. Have I commited the unforgiveable sin and have lost my salvation or can not attain salvation. I get mixed emotions from people on the forum. On person says you must except it and the other says it is not a salvtional point. I feel at this time I am going to Hell and I have no way of salvation. Why would G-d put me or alow me to be put in this position and is telling me it is over for me. And there is nothing you can do about this.
Why am I Hell bound and there is nothing I can do about it? This is what the Holy Spirit is telling me.
speakeasy |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 391
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 4:45 pm: | |
Speakeasy, perhaps you sense a certain frustration from me and others because it does not seem that there is truly a two way dialogue going on here. I do not mean the folloowing in an unkind way, I am merely attempting to explain the frustration. You seem to repeat the same questions, then when someone provides you with answers or resources you do not interact directly with the information given, but instead you simply state you don't believe that, give the equivalent of an electronic shrug, then say something like, "Maybe I'm going to Hell, what do you think?" Of course, no one here could possibly answer such a question because that is God's domain alone. All we can testify to is the peace and absolute assurance of salvation we've found through putting our full faith in the Jesus revealed in scripture.
I sat here and thought quite a bit about writing this and struggled with it because I know it sounds particularly unkind when put in written medium. I do not mean it unkindly, but do not know what else to try to break the pattern that I have seen here over time. So I have been frank, perhaps too frank. Please forgive me if what I have written seems innaccurate or unfair. It was not intended in that spirit.
In response to your last two posts:
1) The texts you mentioned above do not in anyway teach that Jesus is not God. Rather they confirm the important Biblical truths that the Father, Son, and Holy are eternally personally distinct and there are eternal relationships and roles between them. This is all true. But it is also true that the Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God. It is also true that the Bible teaches that there is only one God. God has revealed all these things about himself to us. When a person rejects any one of these truths that God has revealed, it is usually done in an attempt to take the infinite God of the universe and make Him finite so we as finite creatures can understand Him. This is idolatry. It is an attempt to create a god in our own image at the expense of rejecting what God has revealed about Himself.
2) The message that I have been trying to convey about salvation is that only the real Jesus can truly bring salvation. Rejecting what God has revealed about the Son is an act of choosing to worship a false God of our own making. Worshipping false finite gods that we can understand will never lead to a deep seated assurance of eternal salvation in our souls. You have said you agonize over your salvation and feel unsure. I am telling you that at the very center of your doubt and fear is a misunderstanding of who Jesus really is. This doubt and fear will never go away as long as you deny Jesus His true place as the only one true God.
Speakeasy, I have said several times that I would very much like to have a dialogue with you on this. To this end I will start a new thread called, "What God Has Revealed About Himself". I will post scriptures where God has revealed something very important about His Being. Please interact directly with scripture. If we both agree on what God is saying in a particular passage, then we can move on to antoher truth that might be more challenging. I will see you there.
Sincerely,
Chris Lee
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Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 127
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 5:27 pm: | |
How do I NOT deny Jesus true place? How do I do this? I want to know. I must know so I don't go crazy with fear and worry that I will burn in Hell.
You said:
"All we can testify to is the peace and absolute assurance of salvation we've found through putting our full faith in the Jesus revealed in scripture."
How do I this as well. I can't take it anymore being convicted by G-d that I am not ready. I have excepted Jesus as the one and only Messiah and there is no other salvation in any other. And I have excepted his death for my pardon. What else is needed. I want the same assurance as you and the many others on this forum.
Speakeasy
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Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 5:47 pm: | |
Dear Speakeasy,
I can assure you that you have not committed the unpardonable sin. If you had, you wouldn't care whether or not your had. The unpardonable sin is to turn away from the Spirit of God so often and to such a force that He stops reaching out to you. When that happens your spiritual parts become deadened to things relating to God, so you don't even care if you are saved or not.
I'm no expert about the Trinity, nor do I profess to be able to decode it for someone with a Jewish background, but I do know a website that seems to know how o explain it:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/7895/aatrinity.html
All I can do is tell you to give it a try. I don't think that having a belief in the intricacies of the trinity is a requirement for salvation. As I understand it faith in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus as your Christ, and the completeness of his sacrifice for your sins (and mine)is all that is required. I think someone else earlier on this thread recommend reading the entire book of Galatians to kind of give you a handle on the simple truth of the Gospel. I read it in response to that recommendation, and was once again amazed at how simple, and therefore how profound saving grace is. I think it is human nature to want to add a lot of ceremony and special knowledge onto anything that is so awe inspiring as God's willingness to pay our sin debt. My personal understanding of the trinity is this. When God was creating this earth and decided to create mankind he said, Let US create man in OUR image. Man is physical, spiritual, and soulful. Three aspects of a single individual. God the Father is God unseeable, but holds all of creation together. Jesus is the physical manifestation of God. The Holy Spirit is that part of God that can communicate to each and every individual in creation. Two of the three aspects of God cannot be seen, the third became known to us in the body and form of Jesus the Christ. He lived among us, upheld and lived out perfectly the law of God, then gave his life for that law which condemns you and me, lay dead physically for a period of time, then re-animated physically, but thereafter was more than mere physical because he now lives forevermore.
Once again, I don't think you have to necessarily be able to completely and intellectually explain the Godhead. Just know that Jesus, as the physical manifestation of God did die, but then God (who Jesus literally is) can never die. Jesus said that he would lay down his life and then take it up again. Only God could do something like that. You or I could surrender to death, but it would be impossible for either of us to call that spark that is life back into our dead tissues. Jesus did! If you carefully read scripture you can find all three aspects of God mentioned throughout scriptures. Just know that any time God speaks, even in Old Testiment, that speaking God (the Word) was Jesus. There are mentions of the Spirit of God in OT, and I believe that those references are to the Holy Spirit. God the Father is harder to describe because He is the most profound aspect of God. Just know that God can never be a house divided, so there is not a single thing that one aspect of God can think or do that the other two aspects are not thinking and doing at that very same instant. They are always in complete agreement.
Now and again there are mentions in scripture of the three aspects of God all being in the same place at the same time. The transfiguration is one of them. This story is found in Mark, Chapter 9. I'm quoting from The Message bible, which is a paraphrase version, and the story goes like this:
"Six days later, three of them (the disciples) did see it (The Kingdom of God). Jesus took Peter, James, and John and led them up a high mountain. His appearance changed from the inside out, right before their eyes. His clothes shimmered, glistening white, whiter than any bleach could make them. Elijah, along with Moses, can into view, in deep conversation with Jesus.
"Peter interrupted, 'Rabbi, this is a great moment! Let's build three memorials--one for you, one for Moses, one for Elijah.' He blurted this out without thinking, stunned as they all were by what they were seeing.
"Just then a light-radiant cloud enveloped them, and from deep in the cloud, a voice: 'This is my Son, marked by my love. Listen to him."
"The next minute the disciples were looking around, rubbing their eyes, seeing nothing but Jesus, only Jesus."
It would be wonderful to be able to completely explain the mystery that is God, but I think that it is most important to see Jesus, only Jesus. I've been reading your posts and I believe that you do see Jesus. My recommendation to you is that you continue to see Him. If you concentrate on that instead of on explaining the mystery of God, the rest will all fall into place.
Belva |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 206
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 8:05 pm: | |
Speakeasy,
All of this wouldn't be troubling you if you weren't being influenced by the Holy Spirit. I am not the one grown up in a christian family, yeah, we were SDA but up until 3 years ago I doubted there even was a God.
I'm just saying that no one here on this board or any book or anything else can reveal these things to you except the Spirit of God and if you will just ask for truth He will freely give it to you.
Hon, just ask Him! Tell Him you don't understand things and ask Him to show you then get in the Word and you will be amazed how things that never made sense just do!
First thing's first. If you doubt you are saved, Tell Him that too. Tell God you know you are a sinner and you owe a huge sin debt you can't pay and you believe that Jesus paid that debt in full for you and you are sorry for sinning against God and accept that free gift of salvation from Him. Whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved! That includes you! Ask Him to come into your heart and be Lord and master of your life. Give it all to Him and He will make it all new! That's it, and the rest will come.
Praying for you. |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 393
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 8:43 pm: | |
Speakeasy, I have very sincerely asked you to join the new thread I have started and interact with what God has revealed about Himself through scripture. I still ask you to do this and break the cycle that I described in my earlier post.
I say again, you will never experience real peace or assurance if you worship a god of your own making. When you deny the full deity of Jesus Christ, you have put your faith in a different Jesus than the one revealed in scripture. A faith in a false Jesus will only cause the kind of doubt, confusion, and fear that you have expressed so many times.
Come, let's reason together from scripture. I have already posted on the first cardinal truth that God has revealed about Himself (see the thread "What God Has Revealed About Himself").
Please read the scripture I have included. Try to avoid debating all the possible implications and possible objections at this point. Instead, just ask, "What is the main truth that God is communicating in the plain reading of these texts?"
I think we can agree at least on the first truth I have posted on. Understanding this truth will form a foundation for greater learning. Let's have a discussion.
Chris |
Speakeasy
Registered user
Username: Speakeasy
Post Number: 128
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 5:53 am: | |
To all on Former Adventist:
I have been living a lie for about 4 years. On my walk with God. I have lied to people about God and Jesus and denyed the Holy Spirit and what he is and what he can do. I have lied to people about salvation and telling them that they break Gods laws so how could they be saved..
I have just lied to everybody. God has convicted me of this in the last few days. He is and has told me through his word. That I "Have Fallen from Grace" and that I have commited the unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Spirit. I have deliberatly told people that Jesus was not and is not and can not help you I knew these things were wrong when I did these things. And I am paying for them at this moment.
No amount of Prayer or scripture can convience me that I will attain the forgivness of what I have done. Only that the scripture points to me as a blasphemer and denying that Jesus is the Messiah to people that were wanting to know and turned many people away from the fact that Jesus is God and the Messiah.
I am at a point that I must not even try anymore to go to any bible classes or church or posting anymore on the forum for anymore Knoweledge of the truth. For I know the truth and all I do is lie and trap people. I have ruined my relationship with at least 5 churchs and 5 pastors and there staff's. I am a lost person even though I have asked for forgivness. God is NOT responding to me at this time. Is God telling me I am lost forever? Only time will tell!
All I do is trap and argue with people and want to make people as miserable as I am in my walk with God.I hope that God will give me a sign that I can be and will be saved.
Sorry for telling you this. But I have no one to talk to. Because I have ran them off.
Colleen what ever it takes please take my name off from posting on the forum again. For I am a lier and all I want to do is lie and trap people. Sorry for the endless debating. I hope that you and God will forgive me for all the people I have told Jesus is not God.
All I can say is I am lier and I have been trapped by my own lies and can not get out of them.
So Again Colleen what ever you need to do please take me off from posting on the forum. I hope and pray that God will give me another chance for ever lasting life and being with him. At this time I have had no reply from God. I hope the door has not been closed. But I will see.
Sorry
Speakeasy
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 740
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:58 pm: | |
Speakeasy, Your struggle is with surrender. It is terrifying to release all you ever thought, wished, believed, and indentified with to God and to ask Him to teach you truth and reality from the ground up, so to speak. It is terrifying to release everything you've been taught about God and about yourself and to surrender your existence and identity to God alone.
A very wise clinical psychologist I once knew said, "When we break from sincerity (truthfulness), we ultimately break from reality." Speakeasy, I sense that this sort of "break" is what you're dealing with. We can't possibly be open to really knowing the truth about God if we are not also open to His helping us know the truth about ourselves. Surrendering our beliefs to Him requires surrendering our emotions and physical lives to Him as well. It involves surrendering our pasts and our memories to Him. Surrender means we decide to let God make us completely His--completely new.
Surrender means we become willing to let God convict us of the truth about our lives, our decisions, our sins, the wounds perpetrated against us. It means being willing to acknowledge how broken we are, how broken our lives and even our families may be. We can't separate the truth about God from knowing the reality of our own lives.
When Jesus said the truth will set you free, He was, of course, talking about the truth that is in Him. That truth, however, is not only theological truth. It is also psychological truth, it is the truth of the events of our lives. As long as we are running from the truth about ourselves, we also run from the truth about God.
I mean this in all kindness, Speakeasy--but I would like to ask you if you have ever spent some time with a licensed, Christian counselor. I sense that you have many areas of confusion in your life, and your relationship with Jesus is the one you feel most comfortable talking about. Yet your confusion about God, about who He is, about what He wants of you as well as your feeling of hopelessness and lostness--that confusion suggests to me that there are many areas of your life that have caused you great pain and a sense of brokenness.
I would like to suggest that you throw yourself on the mercy of God. Ask Him to strip away all your resistance to sincerity--all your refusal to know the truth. Ask Him to ground you in reality and to reveal His love and Himself to you. Ask Him to lead you to a good Christian counselor who will help you to examine your life. And ask Him to direct you as you read Scripture--and limit yourself to reading Scripture, especially the New Testament. Ask God to take over the direction of your life and to keep you in truth and reality.
With prayers for you, Speakeasy,
Colleen |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 209
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 4:15 pm: | |
Speakeasy,
Peter denied Jesus and was forgiven.
You need to decide if you want Jesus to be your Lord and Savior and then you need to find a church that believes in demonic oppression and ask a very strong believer to pray for you and only if you mean it. If you send demons packing and don't fill the void with the Holy Spirit they bring back 7 more and the end result is worse than the first.
If you can make a clear decision that you want to follow Jesus and further His kingdom then you must do it now.
I'm not trying to throw any denominational book at you and I hope not to offend anyone, but I would recommend you go to an Assembly of God or Pentecostal or some church that can deal with demons in confidence. Some churches are just not equipped for it. You have a very evil force trying to take you out and it's not a joke.
Jesus can save you, He is stronger than any devil and He is able to save!
I'm committing to pray for you several times a day.
Father,
Bless this child and send someone that can help her into her path. Speak to one of Your children to cross paths with her and deliver her, Lord. We know that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. But You have given us power over darkness in the Name of Jesus.
I believe that You have a plan and a purpose and have brought us together here to help this child of yours and pray that Your will be done.
In Jesus' Name, Amen |
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