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Archive through November 30, 2002Lydell20 11-30-02  8:51 am
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Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 566
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If all you see in the word is a list of dos and don'ts, I think you've missed the point. Where is there room for a change of heart, growth, allowing God to work in you? Where is the talk of a relationship? When you make friends with someone, you don't instantly know everything about them, it takes time and years. That's the same way with God because WE don't see perfectly. Personally, I don't struggle with murder, adultery, coveting, etc., so some of those things you've listed just don't impact me. There are other things that do and I struggle with them to a varying degree on a daily basis. But my salvation is not dependent upon my personal works status. I want to not sin because it helps my relationship with God. Just as an argument gets in the way of me and a friend, sin gets in the way of me and God. Salvation is by grace THROUGH FAITH. I'm relying on what Christ has done for me, accepting his grace through my faith and that is what saves me. Because I am saved, there will be a change in who I am...but it is gradual in some areas and dramatic in others. Each day, i learn more what it means to trust. Jesus said if you love God and love others you fulfill all the law. Why are you worrying so much about lists? David killed Uriah, indirectly. He is with God. David did not stop living on that one act. With all of his failings, he was called a man after God's own heart. I am not what I want to be, but I am not what I was. Yes, faith does keep me from sin...sometimes. But there are other things I struggle with routinely. It is a constant battle. But I'm not going to focus my whole life on it. I'm trying to act like I think I'm supposed to live and hope that my "want tos" in life change along the path. It's because I don't want to harm the relationship with God. I try to think about it in terms of me and my children too. If my son messes up, I want him to tell me, not so I can know his every mis-deed, but so it doesn't come between us because of his own guilty conscience. We are God's children, does he really view us that differentlly than we view our own? "If your child asks for bread, will you give him a stone?" Even the word of God uses the parent-child analogy.

Yes, there are certainly dos/and don'ts in scripture, but understand the context of the lists and the point of the whole letter. The scripture also talks a lot about faith. While you're studying the list of dos...hasn't faith come up? What does the word say about faith to you?

In some respects, it boils down to what you trust. Do you put your trust in your works or in Christ's finished work? If you trust in Christ's finished work, you will certainly live differently, but you don't have to live in fear. I couldn't think of 30 things to ask forgiveness for in a day if I had to. But the Spirit certainly lets me know when I have an issue hung between me and God. It's no different with my kids....they trash the kitchen and don't realize we have a problem until I prod them. I don't know if these word pictures help or not. I think most of us on here really are trying to communicate something that is deeply personal and unlike anything else you will find in the world. There is no real comparison for God, but the bible uses parables to relay stories to real-to-life situations, and that's what I'm trying to do. I am in no way discarding the Bible or what it says, but take it in context and take it all, not just lists.

We do care about you, speakeasy, and continue to pray for you.
Speakeasy
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Username: Speakeasy

Post Number: 189
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes faith comes up on my list of things to do. Faith also condems me. "Without faith it is impossible to please him" Yes having faith is a sin that I struggle with. Along with this sin all of the other sins also convict me as well. But, it is hard to have faith when you have struggled with the same things for 9 years and Faith is hard to have when you have waited and waited and waited for God to show you, you are okay. I want God to show me I am okay and to tell me I am okay with him. He has done this for you and I guess all of the other people on the forum. Why is it not happining for me? I just don't understand?

Thanks for your input.
speakeasy
Speakeasy
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Username: Speakeasy

Post Number: 190
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just this day alone these are the sins that I have commited.

No faith, Not trusting, Looking at 3 women and saying those are good looking women. Lusting after them, I wish God would let me have a wife, Cussing 7 or 8 times, Rage, My mind wonders of lustfull thoughts at least 6 or 7 times just today, Thinking of Hatefull things 4 times, Lying 3 times that I know of. Coveting money and things of other people and lord knows what else I did that I don't know of. these are all clearly sins that the bible says to stay away from. Should I not confess these sins to God and Jesus and ask for forgivness or should I just don't worry about these like I am being told?

the worst sin I have commited and it is building up everyday is doubting God and is there a God? And in doing so I am finding out that when I talk to you and other believers all I want to do is argue and trap people. This is NOT a sign of a person that is a christian and is following God.

And when I am being convicted of so many sins is God in some way telling me I am not ready for his return. Why would God want a person like me that all I do is sin and I know I sin and can not do anything about?

You see my problem. I have asked for forgivness today about every 15 minutes. I am tired of the Holy Spirit convicting me all the day. I want to out from under all of this crap. Why would God keep doing this to me. It aint the Devil telling me that I need to confess all the time. Why would it be the Devil be telling me to confess to the very one that He hates?
speakeasy

Freeatlast
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Username: Freeatlast

Post Number: 221
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a big difference between conviction and condemnation. One comes from the Holy Spirit, the other comes from the accuser of the brethren - Satan. It sounds to me like you are experiencing a whole lot of condemnation and very little, if any, conviction.

Conviction is loving, inviting, calling you to a higher standard because you are loved and cared for deeply. Condemnation is abusive, rejecting, pushing you away from God because you are unworthy to be named among the brethren. The former is the voice of the Holy Spirit, the latter is the voice of a fallen spirit.

You are already "ready for His return" because you are in Christ. The idea that we need to get ready (as in perfect our characters) comes from SDA's, not the Bible.

Indeed, you are doubting God and you need to confess and repent and believe what God has already told you in His Word. What are you seeking from Him, a sign? The sign of Jonah has already been given to all mankind, what makes you so special so as to demand a "special" sign from God? There was none besides Jesus who was holier than Job, and God didn't give him an explanation either. God has already told you what you need to hear, it is up to you to believe it in your heart. Ask God to help you believe. Remember the one who said to Jesus "I BELIEVE, HELP MY UNBELIEF!"

I have struggled with the same things for 30+ years, so your experience of 9 years is not unusual. I expect to continue to struggle with the same things until I die or am translated but in Christ I now know that the struggle is sanctified to glorify God, and the inevitable failures of tomorrow were already paid for 2,000 years ago.

I don't know what else to tell you. Somewhere along the road, you just gotta believe and accept in spite of your feelings. Feelings are deceptive, Faith is true.

My brother, I wish you blessings and peace.
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 568
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God has told you you are accepted. It's in his word. He who has the son has life. There are many scriptures. Looking at women and recognizing their beauty is normal, it is the lingering, longing, conscious thought that moves beyond and stays that is lust, as I understand it. I admire my neighbors couch...that's not coveting. Coveting moves beyond mere admiration. Make sure that you're not setting yourself up for completely impossible expectations. I look at a man and think he's nice looking, but I'm not dreaming of getting him into bed or away from his wife. If you believe your thoughts are more than normal recognition of facts and move into more than just passing observation, that is worthy of prayer and possibly confession. But to say you thought a woman was beautiful and wanted her for your wife doesn't sound like lust to me. Sounds like normal maleness...or femaleness in the reverse gender situation.

My assurance of my acceptance to God is written in the words of the new testament. And I am trusting my life to those words regardless of my failings. Yes, we need to confess, but don't see sin where it isn't. You're still a human with human thoughts, feelings and emotions. What you do with them when they come is where you may need to ask yourself some questions.
Speakeasy
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Username: Speakeasy

Post Number: 191
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When did you know you were okay with God? What and how did you know at that moment you were okay? What happened to you? was there a calming effect in some way? Or was it over a period of time?

I saw a friend that was struggling like me for years. And one day I saw him praying with a close friend and after that I saw on his face that he knew he was okay. I could actualy see his face and mind change at that very moment. You could see it happen. I want that! I want that whatever it was that changed him and it had to happen to you. I want that very same thing. That you knew that you were okay. The fear and concerns of not making it is all over with.

I need to be comfirmend yes be something or someone. So I can praise God on Sunday or anytime of the day. Worshipping him and truly praising him with my heart. Knowing that if I die i will be with him. I hope that day is coming soon. I know it will come. I hope it will be soon.

Again your input is taken and has helped.
speakeasy
Spokenfor
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Username: Spokenfor

Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speakeasy,
Melissa and Freeatlast have given you such beautiful input about the love and grace of God. In reading of your struggles I feel compelled to add a passage that has given me much comfort in my own struggles.

Romans 10:9-13 says 'That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and gentile - the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."'

Believe it. None of us will ever be good enough to be saved but it's not about what we do - it's about what Christ did. Just resting in his grace and knowing I am accepted by God inspite of my sinfulness is enough for me. I hope it will be enough for you.
Spokenfor
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Username: Spokenfor

Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to add that all of the posts on this thread are beautifully encouraging not only to Speakeasy but to me also.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 890
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speakeasy, instead of allowing the temptation to believe you are condemned overwhelm you, literally thank God for His work in your life. When you doubt, hang onto His promises that nothing can take you out of His hands. Praise God for being sovereign; praise Him for saving you; praise Him for giving you eternal life in Jesus.

Ephesians tells ut to sing and make music in our hearts to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (5:19-20)

Even when you feel awful, praise God that He is faithful to complete the work He began in you. Praise Him for what He is doing that you can't see yet. Praise Him for sending Jesus and for giving us His Spirit. Praise Him for knowing your heart better than you know it yourself. Keep thanks and graitutude on your lips, and your heart will begin to see the truth in those things.

Satan has a hard time keeping his influence strong when we are praising God. He just doesn't like to be in the presence of praise for Jesus and of the Holy Spirit.

You have to act in obedience to the promises of God before you realize the blessings and freedom in them. You can't wait to "feel" them before you accept that they are real for you. You have to walk by faith into thankfulness and praise--even when you don't feel like it! The truth is real--your feelings are not necessarily related to what is true.

Speakeasy, try journaling Scripture. Literally copy passages from the Bible into a journal. Psalms is a good place to journal from--also the book of Ephesians and Galatians and Romans 8. Ask God to heal your heart as you copy His word.

Quite literally, obedience to acting on God's promises of salvation and hope and to His commands to praise is the only way we begin to experience freedom and victory and assurance. Struggling will not yield assurance. Obedience to act by faith on the truth of God's promises of hope and peace is the way we finally know peace. As long as we struggle to "know" and to fulfill God's demands, we are witholding part of ourselves. Obedience to accept the illogical commands to praise and to accept the fact of our salvation requires us to surrender our desperate desire to "KNOW". We must be willing to accept whatever Jesus gives us, and we must be obedient in our praise and honoring of Him-even when our hearts condemn us. When we praise Him, Satan can't stay in that seat of condemnation. We have to give up control and let the Spirit put God's praise and honor in our mouths.


Colleen
Sabra
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Username: Sabra

Post Number: 251
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speakeasy,

I don't guess you have kids, but pretend you do and, in fact, pretend you went out and spent a ton of money adopting them.

While they are babies it would be nice if they could be nice and pitchin on the house work and behave well when you take them out and not wake you up in the middle of the night and make a mess of their clothes and diapers, BUT, they're babies, and you adopted them and you love them and they are yours, you can't send them back, so what do ya do?

You have patience with them, teach them, correct them when they do wrong, smile at them when they do good, feed them and watch them grow. You provide for them, you plan for their future, you nurture and love them.

Honey, if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give to you if you just ask??

God has adopted you. In Jewish law, adoption was a forever contract, you couldn't disown that child no matter what, they were yours to keep.

He considers that we are dust. He knows all have sinned and come short of His glory, if you sin, you ask forgiveness and you get up and go on! Do you have to? I think it is common to apologize to someone you love if you hurt them but you don't get unsealed by the Holy Spirit, you are still saved.

All of those do's and don'ts you are reading are for your own good, not your salvation or continuance of salvation. They further the kingdom of God and affect your eternal rewards, not your salvation.

Rest.

Just rest.
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 570
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 7:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speakeasy, have you ever made a public profession and been baptized? Remember that Thomas doubted and wanted to touch the Lord. But at sometime you accept what is true and move forward regardless of feelings. Since I grew up in a mostly Christian environment, it's hard to say "when" I knew except that everyone had told me all my life that if you accept Christ as savior you have all you need. I don't know what it's like to not come from that background. I did hear once of someone who was tired of Satan bringing in so many doubts, so they went out and planted a tree in their yard. It was symbolic of their new life in christ and every time they doubted their salvation and whether they were really "good" enough, they went out to that tree and reminded themselves of the very real point in time that decision was made. Maybe something like that would help you. I don' t know. But as I grew up, there was definately a time I learned I didn't "earn" God's blessings... Really, it was only a few years ago when I was studying Romans. I was listening to a study of the book on tape as I was discussing my situation with God and it suddently became real to me. I listened to this study for hours and multiple times before it really sank in. And when I began to doubt (because I thought I had strayed pretty well), I would listen to it again. It took more time for me to forgive myself than I think for God to forgive me. 1 John says that if we say we have no sin we call God a liar, so I found comfort that I would never be without sin in this world. That doesn't mean I don't try, but I was able to not be so critical of my every move. Maybe I'm too casual, I don' t know. But I know who I am in Christ and I really "got it" listening to the book of Romans, and the study done by Josh McDowell. When I realized that I am in Christ and Christ is in me, and the Father is in Christ and Christ is in you...we are all intertwined. It just doesn't make Biblical sense to think God hopscotches in and out of my life dependent upon my sin/confession level. But the answer for you is in the book and prayer and to some degree in your choices and openness to accept what the word says.

When I started on this forum, I wanted to find the magic bullet that would expose the "truth" of Adventism to the SDA in my life. As many others have experienced, I was so discouraged when I realized there was nothing I could do or say to 'convince' him of the errors of his religion. It's the same here. What has worked for me, may not work for you. What gives me peace and assurance may not work for you. But I know you have a number of people praying for you.
Speakeasy
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Username: Speakeasy

Post Number: 192
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jewish Law adoption was NOT forever. I remember when I was going to my Synagogue hearing services of outcast Jews that defiled Torah law. Only until those people come back under the umbrella of Torah law those Jewish people then would be excepted. On the other hand Gentiles are handled a little different. Some Rabbinical teachings will still stuanchly cast any and all people out for not adhearing to Torah Law and the more conservative Rabbi's do not hold to the rule of Law on this and will except people into there synagogue as not holding onto all Torah law's. My suggestion is visit 5 or 6 synagogues and visit synagogues in different cities and states when you go through town. everybody should do this. Becuase we are judao-christians arn't we. Our roots come from Judiasm and our faith comes from Christ. Know the back ground were we come from.

Were did you hear that The Jewish system says adoption is always ther no matter what?

Guys thanks for all of your time and input with me and hearing my struggles. My struggles I feel will never go away. Not until sometype of a miracle from God comes. My search continues again.

But thanks for all of your input and prayers and concerns.

Sea Yea.
speakeasy
Speakeasy
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Username: Speakeasy

Post Number: 193
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa I did not see your post. Yes I have made a public confession and been baptized.

Josh McDowell he has one strange teaching I can not find in the bible. He says and I heard him in person say this. That at the very moment when Jesus died on the cross that is NOT when our sins were purchased. It was when Jesus went down to Hell and got the Keys of Sin and Death and came back with those keys. Then that was when our sins were bought and paid for" I thought when Jesus died when Jesus said it is finished. Is when the atonement for sins were completed.

Just wanted you to know this.
speakeasy
Speakeasy
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Username: Speakeasy

Post Number: 194
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa; I really re-read your post. Your input and insite is refreshing to me and I am going to try to take your advice on just going forward no matter what. I want the same assurance as you and the others have on this forum.

And people that are reading my posts and doubting your own self worth with God and my posts are dragging you down. This is my struggle each person has there own struggle and God in his time will deal with them I guess when you are ready.

But I truly thank all of the people that have given there insite on what has helped you. Any other input would be great.

You all are trully wonderful. Again thanks for all the confidence and prayers you have sent my way over the last few months.

speakeasy
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 897
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melissa, I also appreciated your post above.

Would you please email me at fomeradventist@yahoo.com?

Thanks!

Colleen
Sabra
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Username: Sabra

Post Number: 254
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speakeasy,

I was talking about Jewish laws involving adoption of children in the natural.
Melissa
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Username: Melissa

Post Number: 572
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I emailed you, Colleen. Feel a little like being called to the principal's office and wonder what I've done this time.... :-)
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 903
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to worry, Melissa--it's all good! I'll check my email later today after I finish some errands.

Colleen

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