| Author | Message | ||
| African (African) |
I've realized that even after one year on my journey out of Adventism I still feel guilty when I 'break the Sabbath'. I've cooked a bit on saturday but could not help the awful guilty feelings! I can't bring myself to buy on Saturday - even if I really need the milk badly??? What about eating 'unclean foods'? Are you all rid of these hang-ups, that is, if you had any?. Thanks! | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Yes African, I imagine we have all had them. For me, they have gone away. Now I can be out shopping on a Saturday (the first couple of times are the hardest, by the way) and actually begin chuckling to myself over the feeling of freedom. And I have two bags of shrimp in the freezer. I've learned something in this battle with dumping old stuff, whether it is the garbage from adventism or dealing with laying down old hurts, habits, or whatever. You have to keep reminding yourself that the old stuff is over, that you are now living a new live. God knows it's over. You and satan are the ones that have to be reminded. And you know, I'm convinced that sometimes it helps to put satan on notice that it's over, too. It sounds odd to you maybe, but it really does help at times to declare outloud, not silently, "satan, God says that I do not live under condemnation. I give Him these wrong feelings. I am taking my sabbath rest in Jesus Christ alone. So shut up." Those feelings are some of the "fiery darts" of satan in Eph. 6:16. Notice this verse doesn't tell you to just stand around being hit by them until satan gets tired of his rotten attacks. That word "quench" is an action word. It means it is going to require some action on your part--taking up the shield of faith. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
You're right, Lydellówe have to take up the shield of faith in order to get past those guilty feelings. For me it was the same thingóI had to BY FAITH function on Sabbath according to my freedom in Christ. In fact, for a long time I held a tiny but always-present feeling that if I didn't do those forbidden activities on Sabbath, I could sort-of cover all my bases. In other words, I could worship on Sunday, but I could just have Saturday as a quiet day. I finally realized that if I believed Jesus completed my salvation and Sabbath was NOT a part of it in any way, I had to deliberately treat Sabbath as a work day. It was sort-of like the Corinthians having to stop eating meat offered to idols even though Paul said he could eat it without guilt. The Corinthians had a history of responses that eating that ceremonial meat would trigger. I had a history of responses to Sabbath, and I had to deliberately treat it as an unholy day in order to get rid of those guilt feelings and the sense that I was holding onto the day just in case it was important. The really awesome and unexpected thing was that when Richard and I began deliberately working on Sabbath, we became aware of Jesus's presence with us all week in a real and deep way that we never experienced when we kept Sabbath. Even on Sabbath we had never experienced the presence of Jesus as we did every day when when we gave up the seventh day as special. It's an act of faith, African, and it feels risky and even dangerous. But you know Jesus, and you know your salvation is complete and secure. Jesus will help you give up those fears and that guilt. Give him those fears and the day, and ask him to be more real to you than they are. He'll be faithful to hold your heart! Colleen | ||
| African (African) |
Thanks Lydell and Colleen. I guess I did not look at it that way - that by not letting go of the fears and guilt, I was making the day more important than Christ! I was having a wonderful discussion yesterday with my niece. She then concluded that we should just keep the Sabbath - 'just in case'. I am so thankful for the lessons and the archive discussions I have been turning to. They have helped me so much in dealing with witnessing to people like my niece. At the end of our discussion we were both the wiser. She has gone to look at the scriptures we refered to. She was so astonished that we all just believed what was taught to us without even checking it out. I guess the danger of believing you belong to 'the remnant church' gave us the idea that we are o.k. and that everything else is truth. God is opening many doors for my husband and I as far as family discussions are taking place. Some of the prominant SDA members have been quoting 'the Bible' and we have had the opportunity of pointing out that it's not the Bible but EGW. So they're all doing their homework to check it out! Keep us in your prayers please, as we are able to witness and share that the Holy Spirit will lead us and prepare their hearts. Thanks | ||
| African (African) |
Thanks Lydell and Colleen. I guess I did not look at it that way - that by not letting go of the fears and guilt, I was making the day more important than Christ! I was having a wonderful discussion yesterday with my niece. She then concluded that we should just keep the Sabbath - 'just in case'. I am so thankful for the lessons and the archive discussions I have been turning to. They have helped me so much in dealing with witnessing to people like my niece. At the end of our discussion we were both the wiser. She has gone to look at the scriptures we refered to. She was so astonished that we all just believed what was taught to us without even checking it out. I guess the danger of believing you belong to 'the remnant church' gave us the idea that we are o.k. and that everything else is truth. God is opening many doors for my husband and I as far as family discussions are taking place. Some of the prominant SDA members have been quoting 'the Bible' and we have had the opportunity of pointing out that it's not the Bible but EGW. So they're all doing their homework to check it out! Keep us in your prayers please, as we are able to witness and share that the Holy Spirit will lead us and prepare their hearts. Thanks | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
That sounds exciting African! I will keep you and your family in my prayers. Keep us posted as to how the Lord leads you in this. God bless you, Janet | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
African, I'm so happy to hear that you're having such productive family discussions! I'll continue to pray for you and your husband and family. Colleen | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
They are ACTUALLY CHECKING IT OUT??? Wow! That is a key development! Patience (as if I had any) is the key. This is an interesting topic question. I had been noticing a significant drop off in posts from sundown Friday through sundown Saturday. It got me curious. . . However, if many of you are working/relaxing/participating in standard weekend activities, that could explain it as well. Hmm. I am probably just nit-picking. Happy Sabturday. ;) | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Jerry, I imagine with most folks it is the same as at our house. There is a bunch of stuff that is being done from sundown Friday thru Saturday. I would imagine alot of people get home from work on Friday afternoon and just want to kick back and put their feet up and let the brain coast for awhile. We had outreach at our church today. One of the teams, consisting mostly of teenagers, went to the low income apartments and gave away lunch. The other teams went around putting door hangers at peoples houses inviting folks to a candlelight memorial service this Wednesday. And my poor ole' wonderful hubby worked on the house today. Yeah, people are just doing stuff. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
I sort of though so, Lydell. I just seemed interestingly coincidental. | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Yeah Jerry, it is the only time to be able to get some things done, that require an amount of time. Thanks for checking, though. :-) May God bless you all, resting or working. I just want to thank everyone again, for this nice forum to be available. It is so nice to have you as friends. Janet | ||
| African (African) |
Oops! Donít know how Iíve posted the message twice ñ oh well, I guess I do need a double portion of prayerÖ. Yes, theyíre checking it out ñ even if only to ëproveí us wrong. You guys should see the verses the one brother quotes to support the Sabbath doctrines ñ all out of context. Take him anywhere else in the Bible and he is completely at a loss. Something came up in conversation and we shared that the particular statement was contrary to the Bible. He insisted that Mrs White confirmed his statement, to which my husband replied ìbut does Godís Word confirm it?î He was totally horrified and stated that Mrs White never contradicts the Bible! My husband and I are totally on our own in this ñ we have no church to back us up so we truly need your prayers. BTW ñ have to tell you this. On Saturday we went into town to fetch some medication for my mother-in-law. My husband then told me he was popping around the corner to buy some bread (on Sabbath!). It is amazing how he has accepted the TRUTH of the BIBLE. A few months ago when I first started sharing with him ñ I was so afraid that he would reject the New Covenant messages. He seems to be dealing with the Sabbath (and other) issues better than I have been handling it all. I praise God daily! Keep us in your prayers please. | ||
| Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater) |
Great post, African!! I'm so excited for you! God is leading you both wonderfully, isn't He?! I hope I don't interrupt African, but I have a question for you all along the lines of "context", as she mentioned above: I've just begun teaching a new Sunday School class at our church this week (prayers would be GREATLY appreciated -- I'm feeling in over my head!), and I was discussing it with my still-SDA mom today. In the course of conversation, she (with a very sincere heart and the most honorable intentions) offered as 'advice' the idea that the Bible teaches us how to study itself, then quoted Isaiah 28: "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little." This brought me up short, as I take that to be quite negative -- not positive instruction, but rather citing an inappropriate (or at least immature) way of approaching God's words. I feel that to take "here a little, there a little" is largely what gives SDAs license to proof-text and hop-scotch their way through the Bible, often UTTERLY ignoring the context of the passage, and thus arriving at a conclusion which is completely opposed to what the very passage is actually saying! I'd really like your thoughts on this. The whole passage reads: "8 For all tables are full of vomit and filth; No place is clean. 9 ìWhom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts? 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.î 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, 12 To whom He said, ìThis is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest,î And, ìThis is the refreshingî; Yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the Lord was to them, ìPrecept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little,î That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught." (NKJV) This really doesn't seem like 'instruction' to me. Thanks in advance for your input -- and don't let me steal African's thunder... Clinging to the Cross, Den<>< | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
(Shudder) What a CLASSIC example of proof-texts! Just within the last couple of days, I was in a conversation with an Adventist who accused me of using proof-texts. She said, ìYou have to use the whole Bible and fit it together like a puzzle.î Well, my citations could have used a little improvement, but she pointed me to a document by one of her favorite SDA theologians which was so fragmented and out-of-context that it set my head to spinning. So, here is how to interpret: Chapter 1 Verse 1: You would know people were evil in the Old Testament if they followed these principles: Verse 2: Worship any god you want. Verse 3: Worship all idols Verse 4: Work on the Sabbath. Verse 5: Murder everyone. Etc. Now, we quote verse 5 to prove that this book says we must murder everyone. Amazing! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I remember looking up Isaiah 28:8-13 a couple of years ago when a relative used it to prove that SDAs use the Bible correctly. The context clearly states that the people are rejecting the prophet of God and not understanding him. In their persistent apostacy, the word of God becomes gibberish to them, "Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule, a little here, a little there." In other words, "a little here, a little there" does not mean we are to take words from here and there in the Bible and put them together. Rather, it is saying that a pick-and-choose, random approach is what people in defiance against God are doing with the Bible. It absolutely astounds me that they use this passage to defend what they do. It's so completely ironic. Colleen | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
Woe to Ephraim--Woe to that wealth, the pride of Ephraims drunkards. (The wealth of Israel was its drunkards---that's quite something to boast about!)to the fading flower, his glorious beauty, set on the head of a fertile valley--to that city (capital city of Samaria) the pride of those laid low by wine!! (the greatest attribute of the city was its alcoholics!) See, the Lord has one who is powerful and strong. (Assyria would administer the discipline from God). Like a hailstorm and a destructive wind, like a driving rain and a flooding downpour he will throw it forcefully to the ground. That wealth, the pride of Ephraims drunkards will be trampled underfoot. (Quickly, with little or no warning Israel would fall) That fading flower, his glorious beauty, set on the head of a fertile valley (Israels city with its wealth of drunkards) will be like a fig ripe before harvest--as soon as someone sees it and takes it in his hand he swallows it. (the someone is Shalmaneezer the 5th) In that daythe Lord Almighty will be a glorious crown, a beautiful wreath for the remnant of his people. (The remnant are the few that have taken in his Words and have not become drunkards) He will be a spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, a source of strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate (these are mature believers who fought their way through the Assyrian army to safety--God always protects those who have remain true to him when a nation is judged for its apostasy). But these (the drunkards--the words in Hebrew denote that these two words are a words of comparison) stagger from wine and reel from beer (their real problem was they had rejected God's words; the alcoholism was just a symptom) Priests and prophets stagger from wine; theyreel from beer (even the "teachers" were destroyed by alcohol-they are unable to be leaders!) they stagger when seeing visions (doctrines from God) All the tables are covered with vomit and there is not a spot without excrement. (Doesn't sound like a place where you could effectively learn God's word--in other words, there is no place to teach God's word) Who is he trying to teach?? To whom is he explaining his message? (No one would listen. And next comes a little sarcasm....) To children weaned from their milk to those just taken from the breast??? (Here he indicates those who are most capable of learning--children who can not yet comprehend the message. This also indicates "hope". Hope for Israel lie in the next generation!!) (Again, sarcasm continues...In the Hebrew this is indicated to be the language of a drunkard--Unintelligle gibberish, repetitiveness. The footnote says this was "meaningless words" perhaps a mimicking of the prophets words. Read this in the manner that you've just insulted the town drunkard and he's responding to you in the only manner he can......not making any sense but delivered to you in indignation. You've just told the drunkard the solution to his problem---"take in God's word" and he doesn't like it that you have insisted that you must learn it one step at a time. A drunkard is not capable of taking in too much knowledge at once--he has to learn it a little bit here and a little bit there. Taking one step at a time and adding more knowledge to what you learned yesterday, hence...his reply) Do and do, do and do, rule and rule, a little here and a little there. (The drunkard wasn't willing to learn...so here is the response he is given) Very well, then (have it your way..don't learn...stay the drunkard that you are...since you are not willing to learn this is what is going to happen) with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people to whom he said "this is the resting place, let the weary rest" and this is the place of repose"--but they would not listen. (This was God's warning to Israel--this was a prophecy that the Jewish nation would hear the gospel message from foreign lips and strange tongues (Gentiles) So then, the word of the Lord to them will become: (Since they don't want to learn God's truths) Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule, a little here and a little there (The words of the Lord were like the language of a drunkards to Israel! Totally meaningless) so they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured. To use this text for proof of taking a little (text) here and a little (text)there is to imply that God wants us to learn his Word like a drunkard would learn them!! | ||
| African (African) |
Perhaps your mom, with good intentions was just trying to tell you not to be overwhelmed about teaching. Getting the lessons accross one lesson at a time (precent by precent, line by line). Like telling someone to just take it one step at a time. She had good intentions - I suggest you not try to read too much into the verse she quoted as you will be left feeling even more overwhelmed with teaching your class. Remember...God doesn't put you in a position and then leave you there to deal with it alone. God bless you as you prepare and teach God's truths to your class ...er...one step at a time. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Good point, African. Teaching and learning one step at a time is really important. Otherwise, we feel as if we're drowningóand maybe we are, if we're going beyond the Spirit's leading us! I know how you felt with your mom's quoting that text, though, Dennis! I remember when our relative used it to PROVE that using proof texts was biblical. Lori, what good explanations of those verses. It's still amazing to me that people use that passage to justify "cut and paste" Bible study! Aren't you all just grateful beyond telling for the reality of inductive Bible study?! Wow! The book REALLY makes sense, and it truly is interwoven with the messages of our Savior, of living by faith and surrender to God, and of ultimate glory seasoned with discipline along the way. Praise God! Colleen | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Yes Colleen, those are my exact words right now, "the Bible just MAKES SENSE" What a shock, to actually be able to understand it! (With the Holy Spirits help, of course...) I could never get all the "cut and paste" order right...Yes, Praise God, for the clarity of His Word! Janet | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
amen, amen & amen!!! a strong sda memory is going to revelation seminars (which were considered evangelistic -- can you imagine that!?) and hating them for two reasons: first, they terrified me, and secondly, i could never understand any of it. after years of revelation seminars i never got it, i thought something was wrong with me. i'd see other church members EAGERLY attend them every time they were offered, going to every meeting and getting their cards filled out so they'd get a free book or Bible, it always appeared to me they "got it." but my brain just wasn't capable of it - what an awesome feeling now to discover how simple and beautiful the Word of God is! i thank Him and praise Him! i like what Colleen said, "Aren't you all just grateful beyond telling for the reality of inductive Bible study?! Wow!" love and prayers to all, carol |
