| Author | Message | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Yes, very interesting, Pathfinder. I suspect Mrs. White, had she lived through World War II would not have made the connection you made. I suspect you would assume the same. After all, the point was not ìSabbath-keeping.î Rather, it was ìUs good, them bad.î Where ìUsî is Adventists and ìthemî is everyone else including the true Sabbath keepers. I have a great amount of respect for the Jewish faith. I would much rather respect a faith that rejects Jesus as the Messiah and the New Testament as Holy Scripture, than a denomination that corrupts both beliefs and is not really true to either Covenant. I would be surprised to find that many competent Jewish scholars and religious leaders would be impressed that Adventists keep the Sabbath properly. | ||
| Pathfinder (Pathfinder) |
Naw, I don't think the Rabbi and Cantor of the synagogue where I work are impressed that the Adventists keep the Sabbath properly--for they don't! SDA's have never gotten the hang of what to do with the Sabbath hours. Some Adventists kind of realize this, and they call for more informtion on the lighting the Shabbat candles on Friday night, etc. Some of the synagogue congregation do like the SDA food market nearby, and as mentioned, the Cantor enjoyed the music. Whatever we may think of the SDAs, they sure can put together a dandy food market. But as far as being impressed by SDA religious doctrine, I did not intend to imply that they are. Or even that they are interested enough to pursue the matter. Just that there is interaction, and sometimes it goes both ways. (part of the interfaith focus) Re Mrs. White, it is indeed doubtful she would have made the connection I made. She was pretty scathing on the subject of the Jews, and coined phrases such as "the synagogue of Satan". On the other hand, she would have had somethign to say about it had she lived, as she had something to say about everything else. One can only speculate whether she would have taken the tack that it was their sprititual dues or whether she would have come up with something else even more outrageous. | ||
| Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater) |
AMAZING FABRICATIONS This seemed like the best thread for this little "vent"... I am somewhere between outraged and heartbroken right now. A week or two ago, I heard an ad on a radio station in Sacramento offering a 'tremendous Bible study resource' containing QuickVerse Bible software (which I already have) and "more than $300 worth of Christian books and literature" that will provide insights into end-times prophecies -- addressing such issues as "The Beast, The Rapture, The Millennium, The Origin of Evil, The Mark and 666, Revelation's Angels, The Future of Israel and much more..." All these resources for only $4.95. I am always interested in broadening my perspective on this exciting area of God's Word, and find that often there are interesting viewpoints that Iíve not considered before which I can learn from when I take the time to dig into other studentsí work on the subject. Even when I don't agree with someone's conclusions on a particular point, it is good for me to examine the way that someone else has come to look at the issue because it forces me to ìthink outside the boxî of my own paradigms. Anyway, for five-bucks, I figured that there ought to at least be something in that "more than $300 worth of Christian books..." that would be a benefit in my continuing studies. Especially since it was interactive, and seemed like it would integrate nicely with some of the software and library resources I am already using. When I called, I took some specific pains to be sure it wasnít SDA or some other fringe group with an ulterior motiveÖ I never actually used the word ìAdventistî, but I thought Iíd carefully covered all the questionsÖ I was assured that they were merely a group of Christians interested in helping to provide assurance for folks in these frightening times by pointing their attention toward Christ and His eminent return for the Church. At this, I was eagerly anticipating this new study aid. As you might have already guessed, when the CD-rom arrived in the mail today, the return address label proudly proclaimed ìAmazing Factsî!!! My blood-pressure went up a few points, and my face reddened quite a bit!! I felt betrayed and deceived! I brought it home and plugged it in to see what it is aboutÖ The deception continuesÖ None of the resources can be obtained until after you have watched a ten minute (or so) video which begins preparing the viewerís mind -- and then you begin getting access to the items promised on the radio ad ONLY AFTER COMPLETING THE LESSONS UP THROUGH SUCH-AND-SUCH A NUMBER!! After lesson #3, you can access QuickVerse, then after lessons #9 and #11, you get to read the ìwonderfulî books Desire of Ages and The Great Controversy. Of course the description of these volumes comes complete with the usual tripe about the DA being billed by the head of the Library of Congress as ìThe most beautiful work on the life of Christ, after the Bibleî, and the GC being described as an authoritative and comprehensive study of the history of the Christian Church and of future prophetic eventsÖ As I watched, my anger gave way to deep sorrow and grief. Not only do I hurt for so many of my friends and family members who are still trapped in this web of lies, but my heart breaks for all those innocent, unsuspecting folks out there who heard the same blasted ad I did, and ordered the same dose of spiritual poison. How many who are searching for answers to their bewilderment and fear will be sucked in by this very clever and appealingly baited fish-hook? GGGGRRRRRRR!!!!!! Iím so glad that Jesus doesnít play tricks like this on us! Den<>< P.S. Please pray for me during the next week or two -- I have started talking about Jesus with a Muslim that I meet from time to time at my job. Iím in way over my head, so it will have to be totally the Holy Spirit on this one -- and me struggling to remember to stay out of His way! ;) If anyone knows of any good resources that I can quickly look into that helps Christians talk to Muslims, Iíd be very grateful for the help! | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Oh, wow, Dennis, you must have been boiling! I imagine it was another slap in the face for you. Yet how typical that was. Even my wife has said that she has little or no respect for that program, especially Doug Batchelor. To me, as you said, it is so sad that these tactics are used to sucker people. I am a little curious, Dennis, could you remember a few of the questions you asked which you thought should have revealed the things they obviously concealed? | ||
| Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater) |
Oh, let's see... 1. Do you have a particular, unique perspective you are advancing... 2. Are you promoting any specific Denomination... 3. Is your primary focus on those who are currently Christians or those who are not yet believers... 4. As a mainstream, non-denominational Christian, am I going to find anything to particularly disagree with... Something like that. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Ah . . . So they . . . (what is the word I am looking for . . .) LIED. Am I being too vague? ;) | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Dennis, Big black marker---RETURN TO SENDER---place in mailbox and raise the flag. Blessings on sharing with the Muslim. The Holy Spirit will show you what to say. Let us know how it goes. Check out http://answering-islam.org/ Also any update on your dad? | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Now Sabra, you left out one very important step. FIRST you write a short letter to stick inside the box stating why you don't want it. Remember when writing it that the denomination is not going to read it. The person who will read it is some poor deluded soul in shipping or a secretary. It is that person you are writing to. So let the Holy Spirit direct you to just the ONE or TWO points at most that you can quickly address. (Remember, they are likely to quickly toss it in the trash, so it has to be short.) Like, hm, considering what you have said was the tone of the hook....fear of the future...something about assurance of salvation and that the Lord will never abandon His children. Restate the point they made and give the scriptures. In other words, take the opportunity to plant an annoying little seed! Have just been reading a good book, The Islamic Invasion, by Robert Morey. It isn't laid out with short and sweet answers to the questions you may encounter. But it will give you a good general education about the teachings of Islam and clue you in to the way the Muslim thinks and is likely to respond and why. For instance, that "allah" is actually the moon god of Mecca and that the whole religion is patterened after 7th century arabia. There is a chapter or two that would be a quick read on comparing the God of Christianity to the god of Islam and that should be real useful to you. The book is available in Christian book stores. | ||
| Clay (Clay) |
I just now read this thread of the forum (not sure if that is you call a line of discussion)and realized I never got back to this discussion after my input on Aug.1. Sorry for the mistaken identity. I should have realized there are two Clay's. I guess I may have to change my handle. I am the Clay from Canada. I would like to be able to take credit for that wonderful series on the "New Covenant" but I only read and study it rather that write it. I have a great admiration for Clay Peck at Grace Place. A man of courage, faith and love. I will try to change my identity so you-all won't be confused. | ||
| Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater) |
Yes Jerry, I suppose there is no other conclusion I can come to... It's so sad. (Or "sda" as I just mistyped... Freudian slip, I think...) Sabra, Thanks for the input!! Also, my dad and step-mom are doing great. Growing and learning. I sent them the most recent copy of Proclaim! magazine that has several great articles in it -- some dealing directly with some of my folks' "issues". Mark Martin (he wrote one of this month's articles) was a friend of our pastor from back when we lived in Arizona in the 70s -- who was a very dear friend of ours (including my dad's) and who left at the same campmeeting confrontation that resulted in Mark's leaving Adventism... I think that spoke to Dad some. Lydell, thank you for your input, too. Thanks everyone for your friendship and advice -- I covet your prayers. Den<>< | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Dennis, I'll pray for you, too. I understand your anger. It's bad enough that the mailings are completely deceptive and manipulative; it's another level of betrayal that they refuse to answer your questions when you ask them! As Dale Ratzlaff said when we spoke to him recently, "Adventism has a spirit of deception." And he didn't mean an "aura". He meant an evil spirit. I have to remind myself that one of the ways Satan can suck me back in is by getting me to focus on the injustice and evil that I see and experience instead of giving the anger and betrayal to God and allowing him to fill my heart instead. I pray for us all to stand firm, as Paul admonishes in Ephesians 6. In Jesus, Colleen | ||
| Steve_R (Steve_R) |
Greetings all, I'm back with an update and such as I periodically do. I had previously asked for some good information that would compare and contrast old and new covenants so that I could give that to my dear SDA teacher parents, and I was able to do that. I gave the info to my mother specifically and I just talked to her yesterday and she hasn't read it at all yet, but that's not so terrible, she tells me she'll get to it and I believe her, but also she told me she wanted to start reading the new testament without any EGW or anything else to influence her, just the Bible and the Bible alone for her readings and then when she's done she aims to give the Peck piece on the covenants a look. So I'm encouraged by that for sure because there was a time not so long ago she would've tossed it in the trash without a second thought. As for my dad, he's going more disillusioned with the SDA church because of the things going on with the school they teach at. They both teach at an SDA elementary school and he's the principal as well as handling the upper grades. When he came into this job he was all excited about the possibilities and about making a difference and all the church members and school people have done is take advantage of his spirit to work hard for the betterment of the students and on top of that the church treasurer is highly suspected of embezzling school funds. He had me look at the GL for the school since I work in the accounting realm and he is right, there is a substantial sum of money missing as though it vaporized. So he's greatly disillusioned with what he sees going on and while that could be seperate from him turning his heart away from that system, I do believe it's planting the seed for him to seek right now. I've tried my best to be patient with them in this and I think by the grace of God I have been able to and to let my mom especially take it one step at a time so I'm praying for more of her showing interest in what I now believe. I've read a lot of posts on here where people would say that the farther they become from Adventism, the more cultic it seems and I must concur. The more I move into strictly Biblical ideas and concepts and most importantly truths, the more I see how warped things once were for me and are for so many currently. My mom even confided to me recently that when my older brother and I were young children she was in a way worried about the fact they had children because she didn't want my brother and I to be used as pawns when the sunday law came into effect, and that really hit me hard to hear her say that. It felt like she was at that time when we were young wishing she hadn't had us. Talk about a warped viewpoint taught! Another thing I was told recently by a relative was talking about 'Sister White says we'll all need to give up eggs and stuff eventually' and she's speaking as though the Bible commanded it. It bugs me to hear that kind of stuff because I don't feel like I should just automatically challenge it because it won't accomplish anything even though it's complete rubbish(it was my 77 year old grandmother who said it). So I'm a little frustrated about some things but also I'm thankful to see what appears to be some opening of the eyes of my parents who have been about as hardcore SDA as it comes. Hmm, I'm trying to think of any other important things I may have wanted to ask in reference to but I can't think of any at the moment. Oh well, I can always post again if I think of something and I do so appreciate the assistance I've always recieved here, thank you all. Steve Oh, I did have a question, are there any FAFers that are currently in Texas? I'd be interested in knowing about any that are. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Steve, there are definitely some wonderful FAF'ers in Texas! Of course, I don't know where they live in relationship to you, but if you email us at formeradventist@aol.com, I'll send you the email address of a couple that we know who would not mind our putting you in touch with them. (That is, I'll send it if they don't contact you first!)Tell us also where you live; we might eventually be able to put you in touch with someone not too far away! Thank you for updating us re: your parents, etc. It sounds as if they are experiencing distinct corruption in the school where they teach. Praise God they're developing a hunger for truth and the word of God! I know how you feel as you discover the twistedness of the things you accepted as TRUTH when you were a child. I really am in awe that God reaches to us and calls us to himself and into the light! In Jesus, Colleen | ||
| Steve_R (Steve_R) |
Thank you Colleen, Let me tell you, everytime I read one of your posts on here whether it's a response to something I wrote or something someone else posted, I always love the things you write. I appreciate the spirit that you write with every time. It warms my heart to finally encounter people with the Spirit in them. Such a big change compared to the past, so I thank you for all of your encouraging and kind, helpful words. I'll email you shortly about my location because I really am interested in other Texan FAFers, so thank you for helping me out in that area as well as the others you and everyone else already have been. Steve | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
have any of you been to a SDA Saturday A.M. service recently? If so, I would like to hear about the experience. I have gone several times lately and I have been wondering if it is just this church or is the problem I see is aross the denomination infilteratering SDA services all over. Here goes: all through the main service, right while special music is going on and even during th sermon and even occassionally during prayer the DISreerance is just so bold. People sitting in the pews chatting with the people next to them, numerous little kids running up and down the isles, even adults not bothering until a change in the program to walk out or walk in. Yesterday a lady was singing a special music song so I waited at the back door to the main sancturary before I went to sit in a pew. During the time that I minded my manners and waited several people got up and walked out and one walked right in, all WHILE she was singing. Don't these folks even believe they are in God's house? Don't the SDA's dedicate their churches to the Lord as "holy ground"? I thought maybe the few times I went before yesterday that maybe they just were having n extremely rude croud but now I've decided there is mostly no or very little reverance of the people once they get inide tha church. Where I attend at St. John's when the folks walk into the sancturary peple get reverant mny kneel down in the pews and have silent private prayer before the servce starts and no one ever leaves or coes in while a certain person is in front. Like, if a musical peice is going on the late comer will wait until he is finished and then slip in between , in a natural break. Do any of you others have noticed this in SDA churchs? If so, why don't they respect their house of worship? | ||
| Another_Carol (Another_Carol) |
I have just started posting but have been reading posts since last March. I am not an adventist but rather a Christian being a member of a denomination for over 40 years. My knowledge of SDA came thru a very painful ongoing situation and that is our son-in-law was duped into this false doctrine in l998 just as Y2K was hitting and thru some people he worked with began persuading him that they had the "truth". In a few months he was totally hooked. At that time I had no internet and my Son told me things about what he had read off the internet and one of the things he told me was they believe in investigative judgement and I said so what's that? My daughter started to go with him because she came from a home where the husband was allowed to lead and felt as she told me, something was better than nothing. Our son-in-law was not interested in our church and I will not go into that know, but now this was something he could get into. What turned her around was when He had to change his work schedule so he didn't have to work on the Sabbath since he was working evening shift and that meant Friday evening he was breaking the commandment. The way this happened was that since she was working at a chain store which stayed open 7 days a week and when He would go to work on Sunday that left someone to care for their 2 boys and the one who always did it was myself, of course I was not asked, it was just assumed I would do it. When I asked him if it was right to ask me to do something He would not He became angry and said He would fix it. That day when our daughter came home from work I explained to her what had happened and said to her "Be sure you know what you believe" and "I love you". That same evening she came with Bible in hand and said she had asked the Lord what she should do and opened her Bible to Gal. and read that we are not under the law. From this day until now family for she and her husband and 2 boys has been strained, of course it is all her fault because she listened to her Mother. Please be sure and notice that I put what I said in ""'s since that is what makes all the difference in the world. I am a teacher at heart and the only way I would want my daughter to really understand is for her to find it out herself and PRAISE GOD I know she did. Now after an intense Bible study of my own and my daughter we have tried without success to reveal truth to someone we want so badly to have back, but to no avail and thus a divorce is in progress. I am so encouraged by those of you who have come to the knowledge and saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and would covet your prayers for the same to happen to our precious son-in-law for His sake and the sake of 2 most precious children and their family. I am sorry this is so long but when I start writing I cannot stop, so much has happened since this all started and there has been so much pain but in all of it we can still claim Ro. 8:28 and are still trusting that one day we will be able to post good news. Praise God for all the work of those who enlighten us, I only wish I would have had it sooner but then I think this is so much better, that I found out all on my own thru the Bible and Bible only why I go to church on Sunday and why I have a relationship with My Lord and Saviour Father God Jesus Christ. It's not because I have to it is because I want to because His Spirit was placed inside me and anyone else who cares to accept it, that day over 2000 years ago on Pentecost and that whole thing is another story,how they have distorted the whole Acts message but not now. May the JOY of our Saviours birth be with you now and forever. Carol | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Susan, That's the way I've always known the SDA's to be, they aren't there so much because they want to be, it's because they have to be and it's a chore. I always remember the 2 1/2 hours a week being the longest in my life! I don't think I will ever step foor in an SDA church, to me it would be almost sacreligious to participate in that apostasy. Carol 3: Welcome and blessings to you! I will certainly pray for your son in law. You know, God took me right to Galatians when I asked Him what to do and it is so clear! I praise Him for guiding me out of that cult. I would get together the biggest prayer chain possible and pray that spirit of deception out. If you need a friend or someone to type at my e-address is sabrastone0539@msn.com I'm going out of town until Friday but I'll be back then! Have a blessed Christmas! Sabra | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Praise report!! My husband invited 3 co-workers to church yesterday and they all came and 2 gave their lives to the Lord!!! One of them has a wife who is getting involved in Adventism. She works in Collegedale and has been going to church with a co worker. She didn't come to our church but did join us for lunch and then came back later that evening. We talked a lot and she is quite persuaded that Adventism is truth. We really hit it off right away and I'm sure God has put me in her life to warn and inform. Please pray that I will know the right thing to say and follow the Spirit's guidance. We discussed the possibilty of starting a Bible study at my home. If we were to do that, where is the best place to start? These are people who know very little about the Bible. I thought maybe John. Any suggestions appreciated. Christmas blessings to all! Going to FL-first trip to the SDA's in 3 1/2 years, purposely not there on Fri. or Sat. Pray for us!!! | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Welcome "Another Carol"...(I like that  ) I too, will pray not only for your son in law but for you and the other family members affected by this whole thing. Oh, how deceptions are so captive! For sure everyone on here will pray for you, for you are NOT alone Carol. Please rest assured of that. And remember always that God Himself is with you first and foremost! In the meantime, here's hoping that your Christmas celebration will be even the more Glorious than ever before. Knowing that all things are in HIS HANDS. Blessings always, Denise, a former everything I think ::chuckle:: and Saved by GRACE ALONE.....your sister in Christ our Lord. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Sabra, I will pray for you during this holiday season as well. Remember while your in Florida, not to get discouraged but instead pick up your Bible and read it to yourself for God's assurance. Because I do know for a fact that no matter how set I'm thinking I am in the faith, there's always a bit of doubt that starts to come in when around a bunch of folks who are teaching things that God has removed me from. In my weakness, all I can do is pray and read HIS WORDS for my encouragement. God Bless you Sabra as well and looking forward to your return....I enjoy what you have to say. Your sister, who is sometimes very inept and weak, but IN Christ Jesus nonetheless, denise. |
